The Right Hand of Him who sits on The Throne.

[ScottA]

Revelation 5:1-7
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.​

4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”​

6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.​

This passage from the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ shows and defines the correct description of just How Jesus fits into what has been described as the Trinity or God Head, as rather being "the right hand of Him who sits on the throne" of heaven in the kingdom of God.

This is the Oneness that Jesus described and prayed of returning to during His time on earth.

The point is, as anyone created in the image of God must attest to and agree--the "right hand" is one and the same as the One whose right hand He is.

​

 

[Wrangler]

The point is, as anyone created in the image of God must attest to and agree--the "right hand" is one and the same as the One whose right hand He is.

Only if one is a mystic can one attest in any serious way that one can sit on their own right hand.

That we, including Jesus, is made in the image of God is proof enough neither we nor Jesus is God. If God made all these other God's, that is what the text would say, rather than all this convoluted image/manifestations, God(s) sitting on God's right hand, etc.

 

[ScottA]

Only if one is a mystic can one attest in any serious way that one can sit on their own right hand.

That we, including Jesus, is made in the image of God is proof enough neither we nor Jesus is God. If God made all these other God's, that is what the text would say, rather than all this convoluted image/manifestations, God(s) sitting on God's right hand, etc.

You call me a mystic, while you yourself are not reconciling all scripture:

Name calling and mishandling of scripture--these you are a witness to regarding your own self.
​

Thanks for being obvious.

 

[Wrangler]

You call me a mystic, while you yourself are not reconciling all scripture:

Name calling and mishandling of scripture--these you are a witness to regarding your own self.
​

Thanks for being obvious.

You're welcome!

I am proud of who I am. If I were a mystic, I'd be a proud one. Why are you not proud to be a mystic (as you say I am calling you one, as if you are not one or deny being one WHILE advocating mysticism in many posts)?

Not that I want to hijack your thread but since you brough it up, what is the Scripture you say I am not reconciling? Does that comment stem from another thread or are you reading into the one and only post I made in this thread?

 

[ScottA]

Furthermore...

Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
​

While the above verse from Isaiah identifies the First and the Last as being God, it is important to understand that the saying "yesterday, today, and forever" is of the same meaning identifying Jesus as being "the same" from "before the foundation of the world", as well as "today" meaning: during all of time, and therefore also meaning "forever."

It should also be understood that because salvation is both of God and of Christ, that they are One and the same.

Again, this all points to the Oneness that Jesus prayed to the Father, even to include all who are born of the spirit of God:

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.” John 17:6-26​

 

[ScottA]

You're welcome!

I am proud of who I am. If I were a mystic, I'd be a proud one. Why are you not proud to be a mystic (as you say I am calling you one, as if you are not one or deny being one WHILE advocating mysticism in many posts)?

Not that I want to hijack your thread but since you brough it up, what is the Scripture you say I am not reconciling? Does that comment stem from another thread or are you reading into the one and only post I made in this thread?

I advocate no such thing as "mysticism" as you accuse me, but rather the hidden things of God and the mysteries that are revealed and not often understood.

While it is obvious in your reaction that you would have been one of those who walked away when Jesus Himself spoke of what many thought to be crazy, like the need to be born again, or eat His flesh and drink His blood.

Many are still doing that very thing and still not understanding...and you're not helping.

 

[Wrangler]

I advocate no such thing as "mysticism" as you accuse me, but rather the hidden things of God and the mysteries that are revealed and not often understood.

You advocate the 'hidden things that are revealed' while denying you're a mystic?! You advocate contradictions. A logical person would point out if they are hidden, they cannot be revealed. If they are revealed, they cannot be hidden. You are as big mystic as they come. Why don't you advocate for the things God explicitly said to guide, direct and command the course of our lives in the 66 books he wrote for that very purpose? Such as:

1. Focus On The Positive, Philippians 4:8 (NIV) whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
2. Liberty is Gift From God,
   • 2 For 3:17 (NKJV) Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
   • Luke 4:18. Jesus came to set the oppressed free.
   • John 8:36 (NIV). if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
3. How To Find God, Jeremiah 29:13 (ESV) You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
4. The Sh'ma, the most important commandment, Deut 6:4-5 (NOG). Listen, Israel: Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God (not Jesus, not the trinity). 5 Love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
   
5. It's Not About Religion But Relationships, Matthew 22:39 (ESV). And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
6. Pathway to Eternal Life, Humility & Faith:
   • Proverbs 18:12 (ESV) Before destruction a man's heart is haughty, but humility comes before honor.
   • Romans 4:5 (CEV) But you cannot make God accept you because of something you do. God accepts sinners only because they have faith in him.
7. Requirement For Salvation/Eternal Life, Roman 10:9 (NLT): If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God (in his unitarian nature) raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (emphasis added)
8. Our Purpose in Life: The Great Commission and 2 Corinthians 5:18 (VOICE) All of this is a gift from our Creator God, who has pursued us and brought us into a restored and healthy relationship with Him (singular) through the Anointed. And He (singular) has given us the same mission, the ministry of reconciliation, to bring others back to Him (singular). (emphasis added)

While it is obvious in your reaction that you would have been one of those who walked away when Jesus Himself spoke of what many thought to be crazy, like the need to be born again, or eat His flesh and drink His blood.

What is obvious is my capacity to discern a literal statement from the figurative statements you reference above.

Many are still doing that very thing and still not understanding...and you're not helping.

Thank you. Thank you very much!

If I do one thing during my time on Earth, I pray it is to destroy mystical confusing of the two.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Revelation 5:1-7
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.​

4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”​

6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.​

This passage from the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ shows and defines the correct description of just How Jesus fits into what has been described as the Trinity or God Head, as rather being "the right hand of Him who sits on the throne" of heaven in the kingdom of God.

This is the Oneness that Jesus described and prayed of returning to during His time on earth.

The point is, as anyone created in the image of God must attest to and agree--the "right hand" is one and the same as the One whose right hand He is.

​

Did you know Scott that term literally is referring to authority sir? He is second only to the one who is on the throne in those passages. Never forget who gave Jesus that revelation, that he sent the angel to reveal to John, who in turn recorded it for us to learn from today.

 

[David Boyer]

Questions like this.... I'll just ask Him when I see Him.

 

[ScottA]

You advocate the 'hidden things that are revealed' while denying you're a mystic?! You advocate contradictions. A logical person would point out if they are hidden, they cannot be revealed. If they are revealed, they cannot be hidden. You are as big mystic as they come. Why don't you advocate for the things God explicitly said to guide, direct and command the course of our lives in the 66 books he wrote for that very purpose?

You are sooo in the dark about God's general methods that I need to take these one thing at a time.

The entire word of God is a revelation of the mysteries of God. Apparently you do not know this.

There are even mysteries that go unannounced for thousands of years and then a servant of God announces/reveals them, such as the mystery of marriage that was from the beginning but only fully revealed by Paul even after Christ had come and gone--because that is the way it works--they come in the fulness of time.

The rest of your comments I will have to look at later to determine if they are even worth responding to. Meanwhile, you have a few thousand years to catch up on. I will pray that God gives you a clue.

 

[Wrangler]

You are sooo in the dark about God's general methods that I need to take these one thing at a time.

The entire word of God is a revelation of the mysteries of God. Apparently you do not know this.

Nice catch all assertion, which is an Appeal to Diversion. The point is about you being a mystic, advancing contradictions as true. Nowhere is this stated in the entire word of God.

The closest Scripture comes to it is about serving others, to be first one must be last. Again, this is a bit of figurative language, poetically expressing the idea.

I recently read the CJB, the Complete Jewish Bible. In the introduction, the editor explained the text format. By choosing the text format the way he did, it separates narrative from discourse via indenting. This visually wastes paper but highlights just how much of the OT is in poetic format. For some reason, you are fixating on this 'revealed mystery' to justify what you deny, the mystical element of your words.

No one sits on their own right hand.

The 'Oneness Doctrine' does not change or contradict this fact to matter how many times you appeal to 'revealed mysteries' of God. It's so absurd, only a mystic could think it has any truth whatsoever.

 

[ScottA]

Did you know Scott that term literally is referring to authority sir? He is second only to the one who is on the throne in those passages. Never forget who gave Jesus that revelation, that he sent the angel to reveal to John, who in turn recorded it for us to learn from today.

The passage does not refer to Jesus as the right hand of the Father as a figure of speech--that's the point. It says rather, " in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne." In the right hand, means that it is One that is being spoken of, not two.

 

[ScottA]

Nice catch all assertion, which is an Appeal to Diversion. The point is about you being a mystic, advancing contradictions as true. Nowhere is this stated in the entire word of God.

The closest Scripture comes to it is about serving others, to be first one must be last. Again, this is a bit of figurative language, poetically expressing the idea.

It is not an assertion, it is a fact: God's method is revelation "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little" in "parable" "likeness" and "image" all ending in "the mystery of God" being revealed by spiritually being lead unto all truth. Which I say not to argue, not to dabbling in perspective, but because you seem to be oblivious to the actual ways of God.

As for me "advancing contradiction"--you have me all wrong, I am not advancing would-be contradictions, but bringing them to light and reconciling them where many do not. If you do not believe that--purpose any contradiction, and I will give you the reconciliation.

I recently read the CJB, the Complete Jewish Bible. In the introduction, the editor explained the text format. By choosing the text format the way he did, it separates narrative from discourse via indenting. This visually wastes paper but highlights just how much of the OT is in poetic format. For some reason, you are fixating on this 'revealed mystery' to justify what you deny, the mystical element of your words.

First your position is that the word of God is straight forward having no mysteries--and now you point out how much of it is so mysterious that it is considered poetry? Do you hear yourself? Regardless, we're not talking Shakespeare--God is rather doing "a marvelous work and a wonder" of first confusing language and then providing spiritual discernment. Which of course is all true, and this is just your emotional reaction.

No one sits on their own right hand.

The 'Oneness Doctrine' does not change or contradict this fact to matter how many times you appeal to 'revealed mysteries' of God. It's so absurd, only a mystic could think it has any truth whatsoever.

Your pet peeves are showing.

That is just you making fun of what God has presented often eluding to, but occasionally stating clearly that He is One however just complex enough to speak of Himself as if His own right hand were rather a figure of speech (because of confused language which He Himself confused--for a purpose). Which just might be too mysterious or poetic for your liking.

Nonetheless, Revelation 5:1-7 ("And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne") is one of those passages where He refers to His own right hand as actually being of One, and not two. Certainly worth pointing out, certainly worth discussing. But you, you just came to call names and make accusations against the very nature of God and His method of revelation.

 

[Wrangler]

As for me "advancing contradiction"… I am not advancing would-be contradictions, but bringing them to light and reconciling them

Bullseye. Hence, mystic.

 

[Wrangler]

God's method is revelation "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little" in "parable" "likeness" and "image" all ending in "the mystery of God"

You say this with such vehemence AS IF we have any obligation to 'understand' the 'mystery of God.'

However he revealed himself is as good as any other. The point is he revealed himself and spoke directly, not mystically, e.g., the 1C is you shall have no other gods (including the trinitarian god, including the man-is-god idea) before me (singular). (Emphasis added)

The 1C is NOT mystically wonder at the revelation of the mystery of God, putting aside his explicit words and read into, speculate and always suppose something tangential and man-made (like the doctrine of the trinity or the Oneness doctrine) could be true if you only look at things thusly.

Stephen, the 1st martyr saw Jesus at the right hand side of God. This is language used today. Sometimes people shorten it to say, 'Charlie is my right hand.' It means the one trusted to do what must be done; one who will do things on behalf of the principal. It does NOT mean some mystical, literal two beings are one, where one being is literally the right hand or mouth of the other being.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The passage does not refer to Jesus as the right hand of the Father as a figure of speech--that's the point. It says rather, " in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne." In the right hand, means that it is One that is being spoken of, not two.

I explained it Scott, it is position sir. Jesus is #2 in authority sir.

 

[Taken]

Revelation 5:1-7
And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.​

4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”​

6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.​

This passage from the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ shows and defines the correct description of just How Jesus fits into what has been described as the Trinity or God Head, as rather being "the right hand of Him who sits on the throne" of heaven in the kingdom of God.

This is the Oneness that Jesus described and prayed of returning to during His time on earth.

The point is, as anyone created in the image of God must attest to and agree--the "right hand" is one and the same as the One whose right hand He is.

​

​

Expounding....Jesus SITTING at the Right hand of God:
Seated to the Right (of He seated at the Head) IS a revealing of HONOR.

Rev 3 (REVEALING MORE)
[21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

What IS a Biblical THRONE? A big chair?
No, it’s holy consecrated PLACE. Gods Heavenly Kingdom.

Isa.66
[1] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Awe...Earth is a footstool. Not “A” Kingdom, but Multiple diverse, divided “kingdoms”.

Acts.7
[49] Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Build FOR the Lord....a Temple? Men did that. It became corrupt.
Jesus BUILD FOR Himself....a Church? He Church, entering through the door of His Church, The Who have “overcome”, by, through, of IN the Power of God and the Power of God IN them...
Ie......The Power of God...IS CHRIST, the Spirit of God.

A KINGDOM of Christ Jesus is being built, UNSEEN, UPON the Earth, and without men’s HANDS...and many men not only unseen, but without their KNOWLEDGE.

Being Prepared to become MANIFESTED (seen) by men on Earth...
Boundary...Abraham’s promised land.
Who is seated in Jesus Throne....? Jesus’ saints, ie those IN Christ.

And particularly to you Scott, because you have already shown your depth of knowledge and study......
Further revealed is....12 thrones of the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel.
Sounds like, their 12 Land masses/places. (Land promised to Abraham)
And Jerusalem exclusive to JESUS’ Head “throne” space, and over the the lands of ISRAEL is big picture, and they honored with their NAMES inscribed on the WALL surrounding the city of Jerusalem, 3 names at each gate on the four sides of the wall.

Matt 19:
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[farouk]

​

Expounding....Jesus SITTING at the Right hand of God:
Seated to the Right (of He seated at the Head) IS a revealing of HONOR.

Rev 3 (REVEALING MORE)
[21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

What IS a Biblical THRONE? A big chair?
No, it’s holy consecrated PLACE. Gods Heavenly Kingdom.

Isa.66
[1] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Awe...Earth is a footstool. Not “A” Kingdom, but Multiple diverse, divided “kingdoms”.

Acts.7
[49] Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Build FOR the Lord....a Temple? Men did that. It became corrupt.
Jesus BUILD FOR Himself....a Church? He Church, entering through the door of His Church, The Who have “overcome”, by, through, of IN the Power of God and the Power of God IN them...
Ie......The Power of God...IS CHRIST, the Spirit of God.

A KINGDOM of Christ Jesus is being built, UNSEEN, UPON the Earth, and without men’s HANDS...and many men not only unseen, but without their KNOWLEDGE.

Being Prepared to become MANIFESTED (seen) by men on Earth...
Boundary...Abraham’s promised land.
Who is seated in Jesus Throne....? Jesus’ saints, ie those IN Christ.

And particularly to you Scott, because you have already shown your depth of knowledge and study......
Further revealed is....12 thrones of the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel.
Sounds like, their 12 Land masses/places. (Land promised to Abraham)
And Jerusalem exclusive to JESUS’ Head “throne” space, and over the the lands of ISRAEL is big picture, and they honored with their NAMES inscribed on the WALL surrounding the city of Jerusalem, 3 names at each gate on the four sides of the wall.

Matt 19:
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Glory to God,
Taken

@Taken
I am reminded of C. Russell Hurditch's words:

"He lives! He lives! What glorious consolation!
Exalted at His Father’s own right hand,
He pleads for us, and by His intercession,
Enables all His saints by grace to stand."

 

[ScottA]

As for me "advancing contradiction"--you have me all wrong, I am not advancing would-be contradictions, but bringing them to light and reconciling them where many do not. If you do not believe that--purpose any contradiction, and I will give you the reconciliation.

Bullseye. Hence, mystic.

It is as I have been saying--your pet peeve is blinding you to the reality of God and His method of revealing Himself and "all truth" in the fulness of time; and it is these times in which Christ has appointed the Holy Spirit to lead us into "all truth." That is what is written. Even so, you are acting against that very Spirit for which the term "anti-Christ" was also given. Which I do not say as a personal accusation, but rather in the same manner as Christ addressed Satan in Peter, whom He loved.

Repent (turn from it--in Jesus' name).

 

[ScottA]

I explained it Scott, it is position sir. Jesus is #2 in authority sir.

The problem is...biblically there is no #2, etc. in the Oneness of God in which Jesus had before the world was, and now has again.