The Saving Faith

[JesusIsFaithful]

Sounds a bit purgatory-ish

Seems to me that Paul was talking about the ground, the sky and beyond - the place God was pictured to live in the minds of the ancients.

I would say that Paul specifically referenced the third heaven as where Paradise now is where Paradise used to be beneath the earth in keeping the souls of the O.T. saints aka Abraham's bosom. Jesus led the captivity captive ( the O.T. saints in Paradise ) to Heaven to await their celestial inheritance in that city of God when Jesus comes as the Bridegroom to receive them to that place He has made ready for the vessels unto honor in His House.

Outer space is the second heaven.

The outer atmosphere as in the clouds above the earth is the first heaven.

 

[aspen]

I would say that Paul specifically referenced the third heaven as where Paradise now is where Paradise used to be beneath the earth in keeping the souls of the O.T. saints aka Abraham's bosom. Jesus led the captivity captive ( the O.T. saints in Paradise ) to Heaven to await their celestial inheritance in that city of God when Jesus comes as the Bridegroom to receive them to that place He has made ready for the vessels unto honor in His House.

Outer space is the second heaven.

The outer atmosphere as in the clouds above the earth is the first heaven.

Yeah, I think you are right

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Perhaps because we too often are accepting only one interpretation or only looking for only one interpretation we are missing everything God is saying.

The purgatory I see is in us. It is the Holy Spirit in us that is supposed to be purging that which is not pleasing to God: cleaning us up, perfecting us so that we really can be like Him.

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." I John 3:2-3

And so the Apostle Paul wrote:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

It is safe to say that Paul was referring to the third heaven as where God's throne is as standing apart from the two heavens created for the earth since the third heaven always was where God dwells and thus not created.

 

[amadeus]

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

It is safe to say that Paul was referring to the third heaven as where God's throne is as standing apart from the two heavens created for the earth since the third heaven always was where God dwells and thus not created.

You miss so much with such a stiffly restricted traditional view point. Has God no more for us? Consider the words penned by David some 3000 years ago:

"Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;
I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:3-5

And what did Jesus say?
"... The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

Where is it that He is to lay His head? He had no place but now the Head that is prepared is to connect to the Body of Christ which should or could be you and me.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18

And then David continues to write:

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14

Brings a different thought to us regarding Zion, does it not? We may speak of Zion as Jerusalem, but it is also a dry barren or desert place, such as you and I were until God sent Life to us through Jesus:

"He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye." Deut 32:10

"Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert" Isaiah 43:19

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You miss so much with such a stiffly restricted traditional view point. Has God no more for us? Consider the words penned by David some 3000 years ago:

"Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;
I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:3-5

And what did Jesus say?
"... The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

Where is it that He is to lay His head? He had no place but now the Head that is prepared is to connect to the Body of Christ which should or could be you and me.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18

And then David continues to write:

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14

Brings a different thought to us regarding Zion, does it not? We may speak of Zion as Jerusalem, but it is also a dry barren or desert place, such as you and I were until God sent Life to us through Jesus:

"He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye." Deut 32:10

"Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert" Isaiah 43:19

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

So basically, you are giving grounds for the devil to ask what he had done with Eve, "Did God really say that?" It does seem like you are coming across in that way. Do correct me if I am wrong.

We can apply His words in what He had meant towards proving or reproving works of darkness, but to lose oneself in applying His words towards the allegorical as if the meaning of His words can be referring to or can mean something else is a vain endeavor done by private interpretation which the scripture is not for.

There is double prophecy, but that is highly different from what I see you are doing.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[amadeus]

So basically, you are giving grounds for the devil to ask what he had done with Eve, "Did God really say that?" It does seem like you are coming across in that way. Do correct me if I am wrong.

One step at the time and one day at the time. You clearly do not understand me and have decided that you are correct in every point... So then:

"...According to your faith be it unto you."

"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Isaiah 28-9-13

We can apply His words in what He had meant towards proving or reproving works of darkness, but to lose oneself in applying His words towards the allegorical as if the meaning of His words can be referring to or can mean something else is a vain endeavor done by private interpretation which the scripture is not for.

There is double prophecy, but that is highly different from what I see you are doing.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You have not really said anything at all except that you disagree with me even though you clearly do not really understand me. But... the good thing is that God understands everyone of us. The right answer is always His answer. Hold onto that and give Him the glory without attempting always to tear down that which you do not understand. We do not have to agree on every point, but in order to please God, do we not have to have charity toward one another?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

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Saving faith is faith in Jesus Christ WITHOUT works for salvation otherwise it is not saving faith.