When God says that the holy scripture is magnified above His name, for us to magnify the word in the same manner would not be in fact idolatry.
The Scriptures are God's Greatest Gift to Mankind
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Did Jesus suffer and die on the Cross?
And, did He suffer and die instead of us (for that is what is implied by the word propitiation)?
If Jesus suffered and died in our place, then I consider that He took our punishment.
But if you agree that He suffered and died in our place, but say that He was not punished on our behalf, I believe that you are merely playing a game of semantics.
John Caldwell
Well-Known Member
I provided a passage stating that Christ is greater in all things.
If you understand Christ to be inferior to Scripture I question your interpretation but not your right to believe so. I believe placing anything above God is idolatry, even the Bible. So yes, I say that is idolatry. We have to agree to disagree.
John Caldwell
Well-Known Member
I never said He suffered and died instead of us suffering and dying. That is not what "propitiation" means (it is an atoning sacrifice that Appeased or turns aside wrath). You are just making stuff up and calling it Scripture.
I provided a passage saying that God has magnified His word above all His name (Psalms 138:2).
I'm sorry, I didn't see what passage you provided in order to substantiate your pov.
How is God's wrath appeased through Christ's suffering on the Cross; if it is not in that Christ took the penalty for our sins?
John Caldwell
Well-Known Member
Psalm 138:1-2
give you thanks, O LORD, with my whole heart; before the gods I sing your praise; I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.
I provided the Col. passage a few posts back.
You mistake the passage to mean God exalted Scripture over God Himself. That is a wrong interpretation.
John Caldwell
Well-Known Member
Scripture does not say that Christ propitiated God's wrath on the Cross but that Christ Himself is the Propitiation and Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation by faith in His blood.
You are clinging to a myth, Brother, a heresy. Read Scripture. It does not need our additions.
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justbyfaith,
Here is the verse alluded to;
3 things spoken of ;
1]faith
2]hope
3]charity
of these three choices, charity /love is the greatest....It was not offering scripture or Jesus as a choice. To post as if it was is dishonest.
No one wants to answer any questions, and some posters are dishonest.
Here is the verse alluded to;
3 things spoken of ;
1]faith
2]hope
3]charity
of these three choices, charity /love is the greatest....It was not offering scripture or Jesus as a choice. To post as if it was is dishonest.
Yes, there always seems to bo those who resist the truth, by redefining words and terms, nothing new here.
You have to love when someone uses scripture to diminish scripture,lol
No one would know about God, creation, or who has preeminence without the sure words of scripture;)
You know whats behind al the garbage on this forum, that Idol the bible that men have placed there faith in. God gave us His spirit still today denied by men. and still men refuse to go to Christ so they can have life.
It is the holy scriptures that testify of Christ (John 5:39). All scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16). And, He has magnified His word above all His name (Psalms 138:2)
REally
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
always leave out that second part where you refuse to go to Christ to get life from Him.
But most important
Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And still you refuse Him, Mean are still carnal.
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
I have come to Christ and I testify to you that He has given me life.
You should be aware of what He said in Luke 6:37, however.
So, it seems that you believe that holding the scriptures to be the inspired and inerrant word of God is tantamount to refusing Christ and being carnal. This is a misinterpretation of John 5:39-40.
The scriptures testify of Christ: that ought to tell you something, that we receive our understanding of who Christ is from the holy scriptures. And the fact that some who search the scriptures are unwilling to come to Him that they might have life in no way precludes that everyone who searches the scriptures does not come to Him. As a matter of fact, these (the holy scriptures) are they which testify of Him; and therefore, we would need their testimony in order to be able to come to Him.
Therefore, if ministers of His word, use His word as a means to preach the gospel by which men can be saved, it does not mean that those same ministers are devoid of a relationship with Christ. For one would need a relationship with Christ to be an effective minister of His word.
That we only get from Him, there is no other way to know Christ but to experience Christ. All bible readers get is there own understanding. I have a fr5iend I have known for, just discussed with her, for 18 years or so, when I first met Her she told me how teh Lord had being teaching her about the first chapter of Genisis for over 30 years, and how HE kept taking her back to it, and yet you think you can understand it because you read it. Men are so blind foolish and arrogant, reduced the Living Word to nothing but the dead letters in a book than presume to tell God its a good thing that they did.
Read John 1:1, John 1:14.
Jesus is the Word.
The words that Jesus spoke are spirit and they are life (John 6:63). Since the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Jesus and the entire canon of holy scripture is inspired by Him, it should be clear that Jesus spoke forth every word of the holy scriptures. And they are spirit and they are life.
The fact that we read them as letters off of a page does not make them any less so.
You have of course done what was prophesied about in 2 Timothy 4:3-4; you have gone to a different translation in order to deny the clear message of holy scripture; and in this you have heaped for yourself a teacher (the translator of the faulty Bible that you are quoting) to tell you what your itching ears want to hear.
The passage clearly says that God has magnified His word above all His name. This would indicate that His word is exalted above His very nature and character.
Sorry, you lose.
Propitiation means "appeasement of wrath", so I believe that you are in fact grasping at straws. Scripture does indeed say that Christ propitiated God's wrath on the Cross.
The only thing preventing you from seeing it before was that the holy scriptures used a big word that you couldn't understand; and therefore when you did your eraser-board thing, you failed to see the scriptures in question. So why don't you repent now of believing in and preaching a denial of, sound doctrine that is paramount to the teaching of holy scripture?
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That is purely assumption on mens part, why dont you go tell Jesus you dont need Him because you prefer the book, or even you husband / boyfriend that He is worth nothing but a paper back novel,. God gave you Jesus and by Christ His spirit the greatest gifts of all, but they are nothing to Christianty reduced to fables and stories, by your very own words, the bible is more valuable to men than God Himself. and you"minister"??
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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