The Seventh Seal

[Keraz]

There is a time gap for the trumpets to play out and the bowls to be poured- 7 years for Gods wrath to be poured out! Not this mythical 15+or- years based on your false calculations. Teh bible gives us a time frame.

Yes it does and the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, will take place during the final 1260 days.
But before then, much must happen, commencing with the Sixth Seal world changer. A One World Govt will be established, soon to be led by a powerful and charismatic leader. The Christian peoples will form their own Govt, as they all live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. The attack from Gog and the making of a peace treaty between the OWG leader and the Christian nation, all of which will take at least 15 years.

What you are being judged correctly for is that you strongly imply like the cults that to reject your conclusions is to reject he Word of God!

I support all of what I post with scripture, or known facts.
You objections are because the truths conflict with your beliefs.

Its mighty presumptuous to judge anyone, especially by opinion; without factual proofs.

Well there is no better picture to paint of the end times- they are the days of darkness and gloom and wrath and judgment.

For the ungodly and those who have the mark of the beast. But for those who love the Lord; Great will be that time!

It is the final attempt of Satan to rule and usurp god.

That comes after the Millennium. Revelation 20:7-10

 

[Truth7t7]

I support all of what I post with scripture, or known facts.

Dream time

 

[Keraz]

Dream time

Sad, because you are locked into your false beliefs. The end times events will be a shock to you and all who grip onto theories and doctrines that have no proper Bible support.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes it does and the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, will take place during the final 1260 days.
But before then, much must happen, commencing with the Sixth Seal world changer. A One World Govt will be established, soon to be led by a powerful and charismatic leader. The Christian peoples will form their own Govt, as they all live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. The attack from Gog and the making of a peace treaty between the OWG leader and the Christian nation, all of which will take at least 15 years.

Well the trumpets and bowls take 7 years, not 3 1/2

There still may be a one world govt by the time of the first seal. but I see in Scripture that the antichrist (white horse) goes out conquering and to conquer- He conquers the kings after the 1 world govt. breaks up as foretold by Daniel.

YOu are wrong about Israel. Jews will live there not Christians and there is 0 in Scriputre that says christians will form their own nation.

And the Russian invasion must occur before the tribulation period begins! for the reasons I already explained to you straight from SCripture.. NO hidden clues, just plain simple teaching

 

[Keraz]

YOu are wrong about Israel. Jews will live there not Christians and there is 0 in Scriputre that says christians will form their own nation.

Many Prophesies refute you Here is the best one:

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 & Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

The nation of faithful Christian peoples: Isaiah 62:1-5 John sees then there in Revelation 7:9

 

[quietthinker]

Yes it does and the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, will take place during the final 1260 days.
But before then, much must happen, commencing with the Sixth Seal world changer. A One World Govt will be established, soon to be led by a powerful and charismatic leader. The Christian peoples will form their own Govt, as they all live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. The attack from Gog and the making of a peace treaty between the OWG leader and the Christian nation, all of which will take at least 15 years.

re 'One World Government'.....what do you do with Nebuchadnezzar's dream which Daniel interpreted, specifically Daniel 2:43 which says 'As you saw the iron mixed with clay, so the peoples will mix with one another, but will not hold together any more than iron mixes with clay.'

I understand that to mean there will be attempts to bring the planet (nations) together but it wont succeed.

 

[quietthinker]

You objections are because the truths conflict with your beliefs.

You used the same line with me as you have here with Ronald Nolette in your post #41. Does that mean that any who disagree with you are wrong? Does it mean that you have the privileged position of 'right' and others don't?

Why is it you pull this card and or refuse to engage when others points are raised which don't fit your paradigm?

I note these factors and what it does to me is ensure that I can't take your arguments seriously.

This is a cause for regret for me because you come across as reasonably reasonable.

 

[Keraz]

This is a cause for regret for me because you come across as reasonably reasonable.

Nice. I am an RR. person.
When I use - You objections are because the truths conflict with your beliefs. I am quoting scripture. Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused......the Book is closed to you.
Who is so blind but My servant, the ones who have My trust. Isaiah 42:18-20,+

re 'One World Government'.....what do you do with Nebuchadnezzar's dream which Daniel interpreted, specifically Daniel 2:43 which says 'As you saw the iron mixed with clay, so the peoples will mix with one another, but will not hold together any more than iron mixes with clay

Actually it will succeed, as Daniel 7:23-24 and Revelation 13:1-17 say it will be worldwide. But it won't last for long, the leaders of the ten world divisions will cede their power to one powerful man. Revelation 17:12-13
God will destroy them in the Great Trib and finally at Armageddon: ALL the ungodly peoples made His footstool. Hebrews 10:13

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Many Prophesies refute you Here is the best one:

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 & Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

The nation of faithful Christian peoples: Isaiah 62:1-5 John sees then there in Revelation 7:9

YOu are so used to privately interpreting Scripture though it is condemned you cannot even see the forest for you trees!

No one upon reading this passage who has any understanding would never call my people the church! It is truly sad you claim to be a messenger but fail to recognize in teh days of Jeremiahs prophecy there were two kingdom of Jews

Israel and Judah! God promised to make these two separate sticks one again

Ezekiel 37:16-19

King James Version

​

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

YOur mongrelized hybrid covenant theology is simply a private interpretation imposed on Scripture. You are in danger from God and do not even realize it.

YOu have become too fixated on thinking so much of Scripture is encoded and needs aq code breaker as you think you are.

 

[quietthinker]

I am quoting scripture. Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused......the Book is closed to you.
Who is so blind but My servant, the ones who have My trust. Isaiah 42:18-20,+

Yes you are quoting scripture......but do you realise this same scripture can apply to you?

Soooo, if we can get beyond the quoting of scripture to accuse the other and try to find out or unravel the mystery which we both live in, we might make some headway. What do you say?

I would start by asking, what do you see your paradigm based on? Maybe would would say the scriptures? but that is not really a persuasive answer because anyone can make the scripture say what one wants when one is erroneously and selectively focused. I think you understand that.

Prophecy is a great thing yet consider the Jews.....they missed the major event. I think that is possible with Christians also. So to bring it right down to the basic premise I will ask again, what do you see your paradigm based on?

 

[Keraz]

Israel and Judah! God promised to make these two separate sticks one again

The House of Judah is a visible entity.
The House of Israel is hidden by God and remains scattered among the nations.

Judah is Prophesied to be Judged, punished and only a remnant will survive, Isaiah 6:11-13
Israel is the people Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24 He was successful and we Christians are the result.

Yes you are quoting scripture......but do you realise this same scripture can apply to you?

Sure it can. But some will have better understanding than others.
Daniel 12:19b says that in the last days, a few will understand the Prophesies.

I will ask again, what do you see your paradigm based on?

My God given task is to promote the Bible Prophesies. I received this Call while living in Israel and Jordan. I have been inspired way beyond my natural abilities to do what I have done.
The Internet is the modern means available for me to put forward the truths of the Prophetic Word. That I get very little traction or support in posting what the Prophets actually wrote, is to be expected, as they were rejected too.

At the very least, my posts have given to some, the idea that there is an alternative to a world wipe out and God does Promise an amazing future to His faithful Christian peoples.

 

[quietthinker]

The House of Judah is a visible entity.
The House of Israel is hidden by God and remains scattered among the nations.

Judah is Prophesied to be Judged, punished and only a remnant will survive, Isaiah 6:11-13
Israel is the people Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24 He was successful and we Christians are the result.

Sure it can. But some will have better understanding than others.
Daniel 12:19b says that in the last days, a few will understand the Prophesies.

My God given task is to promote the Bible Prophesies. I received this Call while living in Israel and Jordan. I have been inspired way beyond my natural abilities to do what I have done.
The Internet is the modern means available for me to put forward the truths of the Prophetic Word. That I get very little traction or support in posting what the Prophets actually wrote, is to be expected, as they were rejected too.

At the very least, my posts have given to some, the idea that there is an alternative to a world wipe out and God does Promise an amazing future to His faithful Christian peoples.

Oh Keraz....you have not addressed my question. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you do understand it? You might like to have another crack at answering it?

 

[Truth7t7]

Sad, because you are locked into your false beliefs. The end times events will be a shock to you and all who grip onto theories and doctrines that have no proper Bible support.

"Destroyed Them All" When Jesus Christ Is Revealed

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Keraz]

Oh Keraz....you have not addressed my question. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you do understand it? You might like to have another crack at answering it?

I answered 3 of your questions.
But your failure to understand the truths of what God has planned for these end times, is how God wants it to be.

"Destroyed Them All" When Jesus Christ Is Revealed

All the ungodly peoples.
The Lord will protect and save His faithful people. They will go with Him into the Millennium. Revelation 5:9-10

 

[quietthinker]

I answered 3 of your questions.
But your failure to understand the truths of what God has planned for these end times, is how God wants it to be.

Just to be clear, you have not answered my question of 'what do you see your paradigm based on?' but never mind, the doubt has been reinstated; I don't think you understand the question.

Further, your comment, 'how God wants it to be'?
The gospel is put out there and lengthy discussions are engaged by you and others but ultimately, as I understand you, God overrides free choice and nullifies it in real terms......and 'whosoever will to drink of the water of life freely' becomes 'nice' posturing?....because that is the logical deduction......hmmmm.

 

[The Light]

Well the trumpets and bowls take 7 years, not 3 1/2

The trumpets and bowls will take just over 1 year.

And the Russian invasion must occur before the tribulation period begins! for the reasons I already explained to you straight from SCripture.. NO hidden clues, just plain simple teaching

The Russian invasion takes place after the 1000 years.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The trumpets and bowls will take just over 1 year.


The Russian invasion takes place after the 1000 years.

The year is guess work on your part.

I am convinced that the trumpets are in the first 3 1/2 years of teh 70th week and the bowls are after the antichrist rises from the dead and declares himself god.

As for the Russian invasion, no it must take place before teh tribulation occurs and at least 10 1/2 years before the Lord returns and sets up the millenial kingdom.

Look closely at Ez. 38-39 and then compare it to Rev. 20: 8- end.

The allies are different, the time is different, different results.

If it were at the end of the millennial kingdom and right before eternity "commences" there is a huge problem.

Israel burns the weapons for fuel for 7 years into eternity.
They are burying the dead for months into eternity
God makes HIs name known in HIs kingdom?????
the results of both battles are markedly different.

Teh reason many think that Rev. 20 and Ez. 38-39 are the same is only because of the terms Gog and Magog. But when you read teh details of each battle we see they are markedly different.

 

[Keraz]

Romans 8:19-23 The created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed. It was His choice to subject all things to mortality and decay, with the eventual goal of His people entering into the glorious liberty of immortality and a renewed creation. Up to the present as we know, the whole of creation, in all its parts, groans as if in the pangs of childbirth. What is more, we also, to whom the Spirit is given as first-fruits of the harvest to come, are inwardly groaning in anticipation of our adoption as children of God and our liberation from mortality.

Isaiah 42:13-15 The Lord has kept silence and restrained Himself for all this age, allowing this world to go its own way. But as the appointed time approaches, He is like a woman in labour, prepared and ready to take action. The Lord will go forth as a warrior, roused to a fury in the heat of battle. He will shout His battle cry and will triumph over His enemies. The land will be laid to waste, all the plants and trees will burn and the streams and lakes will become dry. Isaiah 63:4, Habakkuk 2:3, Jeremiah 4:23-28

Matthew 24:3-8 Lord; tell us the signs of the end of this age. Jesus replied: Take care that no-one misleads you, for many false Messiahs and teachers will come and many will be fooled by them. The time is coming when you will hear of wars and rumours of wars, for there will be an increase of wars, earthquakes, diseases and famines. All these things are the birth pangs of the new age. Jeremiah 15:2


As Jesus prophesied, there will be wars, earthquakes, diseases and famines at the end of this age. He likened these things to ‘birth pangs’. When we consider normal childbirth, the labour pangs are separated by periods of relative calm. So if there have been times when clusters of those four disasters have occurred, we can ascertain that time must be very short for this age. Here are the facts:

1/ In 1914-19, World War 1 occurred. There were 7 earthquakes of over 8 magnitude. Smallpox and typhus killed millions, but Spanish flu killed at least 50 million in 1918/19. There were terrible famines in Europe, and Russia.

2/ During 1939-45 there was World War 2 and 8 earthquakes of over 8 magnitude. Typhus again killed millions, in North Africa, in Iran and Europe. Anne Frank died of typhus. A terrible famine in China killed at least 45 million.

3/ The data suggests that the third ‘birth pang’ commenced in Nov. 11, 2001. Wars and rumours of wars are rife. It is considered that the global war on terrorism is a world war. There have been more than 20 earthquakes of 8 and two over 9 magnitude. Diseases such as cancer, AIDs and Covid are of epidemic proportions. Crop failures due to unusual weather and wars result in famines in Asia, Ukraine and Africa.



But the last, most shocking and devastating event of the third birth pang, will be the great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. This will be the many prophesied ‘fire from heaven’ that describes a huge Coronal Mass Ejection sunstrike, which will affect the whole world, killing probably billions. This will enable two things; the establishment of a One World Government and the re-settling of the Lord’s faithful people into all of the holy Land.
The time gap of the Seventh Seal, Revelation 8:1, [1/2 hour in Heaven = 15-20 years on earth] from this CME until the Great Tribulation is prophesied as a time of peace and prosperity.

4/ The fourth and final ‘birth pang’, will be the Great Tribulation, so vividly described in Revelation, but ending with the Return of Jesus and the start of the Millennial era.
After the 1260 days of the G.T. Jesus will Return for His Millennial reign.

 

[The Light]

The year is guess work on your part.

Not at all. The Day of the Lord is 1000 years. The day of wrath is one year. There are plenty of scriptures that show a day can be considered a year in scripture. If you are not aware of that, you can easily find them with an internet search.

That said, in Revelation 6 we see just before wrath, that the heavens are rolled together as a scroll. We also see the stars fall from heaven who are the host of heaven, as a fig tree cast her figs.

Revelation 6
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

So we see that Isaiah is talking about the events of Revelation 6.

Isaiah 34
Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

2 For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

When we continue reading, we see that the day of wrath is one year.

5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

If this does not convince you, I have more verses to post that will confirm that the wrath of God lasts for a year. (It will be slightly longer as in a few days, which we can prove.

 

[The Light]

I am convinced that the trumpets are in the first 3 1/2 years of teh 70th week and the bowls are after the antichrist rises from the dead and declares himself god.

I'm not sure what convinced you of this, but it is incorrect. First off, the trumpets are the wrath of God. We can prove Gods wrath lasts for one year. Secondly, The vials or bowls are also the wrath of God. The vials or bowls occur in the same timeframe as the trumpets, which we can prove. If you need proof, I can provide.

You say that the trumpets are the 1st 3.5 years of the 70th week. I proved in the previous post that the trumpet of wrath last for one year. This bowls happen in this same year. What you seem to be forgetting is the SEALS.

What John tells you in Revelation 6 about the 1st six seals is exactly what Jesus is telling you in Matthew 24.
These "beginning of sorrows" are the 1st four seals, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

The Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 is the 5th seal.

Matthew 24

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Jesus coming in Matthew 24 is the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. So Jesus returns BEFORE wrath begins. The great tribulation is OVER before wrath begins.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?