The Seventh Seal

[ewq1938]

Jesus does leave heaven at the 6th seal.

No he doesn't. He stays in heaven to open the 7th seal. The seals speak of FUTURE ACTIONS not actions that happen when each seal is opened.

 

[ewq1938]

This is a good point. There is no earthly time of a half hour in heaven.

Therefore, the silence in heaven will be for a half hour on earth.

But the verse disagrees with you.

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

It says silence IN HEAVEN not ON EARTH. Stop changing things like others do if you want any chance of interpreting things correctly.

 

[Adventageous]

I will ask politely.....where is your objectivity? You use the text to underpin your foregone conclusions yet the text addresses a different matter altogether. You are reading into the text what you want it to say.

Secondly, your quote of Isaiah 29:9-12 as quoted below, (NIV) can equally be applied to you

Be stunned and amazed, blind yourselves and be sightless;
be drunk, but not from wine, stagger, but not from beer.
The Lord has brought over you a deep sleep. He has sealed your eyes (the prophets);
he has covered your heads (the seers).
For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I can’t; it is sealed.” Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I don’t know how to read.”

Here is how I understand the 7th Seal:

7th SEALed In Powerpoint : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

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7th Sealed In by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

7th Sealed In by brother Aaron EarnestYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCplWZcKcFd1tNbHYPS-5t9wINTERNET ARCHIVE: ...

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7th SEALed In Revelation 8 Vs 1 In Type & Anti Type Snapshot : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

7th SEALed In Revelation 8 Vs 1 In Type & Anti Type SnapshotYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCplWZcKcFd1tNbHYPS-5t9wINTERNET ARCHIVE: ...

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[The Light]

No he doesn't. He stays in heaven to open the 7th seal.

Do you think that great multitude just magically appeared in heaven. They are there because He went and got them, just as He promises. The great multitude is in heaven during the one year wrath of God and Jesus is there with them.

The seals speak of FUTURE ACTIONS not actions that happen when each seal is opened.

Please. The first four seals are the "beginning of sorrows" in Matthew 24. The fifth seal is the great tribulation and 6th seal is the coming of Jesus for the fall fruit harvest. Each seal is an action that you can find in Matthew 24. All except the seventh seal, that is, which is the wrath of God.

 

[robert derrick]

But the verse disagrees with you.

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

It says silence IN HEAVEN not ON EARTH. Stop changing things like others do if you want any chance of interpreting things correctly.

Not really.

You are saying the time of silence in heaven, is just that, about a half hour of time. Which is the same amount of time on earth.

I am saying the same.

The point is not about there being no measured time in heaven, which is obviously not true, but is about changing the Scripture, to change that time into more than a simple half hour.

I disagree with it, and any interpretation of prophecy coming from it.

There will be silence in heaven for about the space of half an hour in heaven and on earth.

The only question is when.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you think that great multitude just magically appeared in heaven. They are there because He went and got them, just as He promises.

The people who are raptured survived the GT, and they are a small group not a group that cannot be counted. The multitude in Rev 7 are all of the saved in the eternity in the new Earth. It has nothing to do with any time or events of this old Earth and does not support Jesus leaving heaven after opening the 6th seal. He goes no where until the 7th trump.

 

[The Light]

The people who are raptured survived the GT, and they are a small group not a group that cannot be counted.

The great multitude is the result of the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is gathered from heaven as the dead in Christ and alive believers will be caught up before the final week. They will go with the Lord to the clouds when the second rapture occurs. Those that are killed during the tribulation and the alive will be caught up and then all return to heaven as the great multitude. Then the wrath of God begins as the 7th seal is opened.

The multitude in Rev 7 are all of the saved in the eternity in the new Earth. It has nothing to do with any time or events of this old Earth and does not support Jesus leaving heaven after opening the 6th seal. He goes no where until the 7th trump.

Jesus raptures the Church before the seals are opened and raptures the seed of the woman, the believers of the 12 tribes across the earth, at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened. Only the nation of Israel that fled to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth when the wrath of God begins.

 

[ewq1938]

The great multitude is the result of the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Only gathered to the 1st heaven, and only briefly. All will follow Christ down to the Earth. The multitudes in Rev 7 are those on the new Earth. John was shown the new Earth and eternity in that chapter. It isn't the result of the rapture as there are far too many there. The wording is near exact to what is found in Rev 21.

 

[The Light]

And your biblical proof?

The Biblical proof that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins can be found in these verses. The signs of the sun, moon and stars mark the event of the coming of Jesus at the 6 seal before wrath begins. As the Word says, the tribulation is OVER.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Even Jesus said that when we see the antichrist enter the temple then there will be great tribulation.

Even Jesus? Well there is great tribulation after the Antichrist enters the Temple. And then the tribulation ends and Jesus returns for a harvest at the 6th seal, and then the wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened.

So according to your time frame: (where does it show that biblically BTW) God does the following:

Trumpets:

1. destroys just 1/3 of greenery
2. destroys 1/3 of fish and ships
3. Wormwood poisoning just 1/3 of the fresh waters.
4. Heavenly luminaries darkened by 1/3
5. Creatures from the abyss hurt all men but the 144,000
6. 1/3 of mankind killed by the 200,000,000
7. declaration that Jesus was given His kingship and the thunders in the heavenly temple.

Then after these have taken place the following also have to take place:

1. Grievous sores upon men
2. all seas and fish die not just 1/3
3. all fresh water dies not just 1/3
4. suns heat intensifies
5. a darkness that causes pain.
6. demons leaving the mouth of Satan, antichrist. and false prophet to call the kings of the earth to gather for the battle of teh great day of God Almighty
7. great seismic activity and hail that is enormous.

Already showed you that the bowls do not occur after the trumpets. They occur in the same time frame known as the wrath of God.

The tribulation is also known as the 70th week of Daniel!

This is not correct. The 70th week of Daniel is the final 7 years. The tribulation will be OVER, BEFORE the one year wrath of God. So there will be 6 years of tribulation and one year of wrath.

it is the last 7 years of human history before the Lord returns. IN the midst of that 7 years- Antichrist rises from the dead, enters the temple and ends the sacrificial system with the FP declaring He is the Messiah and ordering the mark- that is the final 3 1/2 years of history as John wrote. If you think differently you need to show biblically why you disagree.

I agree with this. However, as I have shown the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

 

[The Light]

You are overreading this passage! all it says is the mystery of God is finished not the end of time and the Return of Jesus, that is you forcing the events of Rev. 19 into rev. 7.

I'm thinking that you mistyped. I think you mean that I am forcing the 7th trumpet into Revelation 19. Read this.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Don't you think that Armageddon is over and Jesus has returned when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord?

Yes Satans right to rule is revoked and Jesus begins His rightful role as king of the earth. Normally that means He takes the throne, but no because the last 7 parts of the wrath of God have to be poured out on earth through the vials.

The trumpets and bowls occur in the same time frame. They are both the wrath of God.

Remember Jesus returns and battles the antichrist at Petra all the way back to Jerusalem.

Petra? What chapter and verse are you referring to?

 

[The Light]

Only gathered to the 1st heaven, and only briefly. All will follow Christ down to the Earth. The multitudes in Rev 7 are those on the new Earth.

What you are saying is something that you have incorrectly concluded. You have no scriptural support. How do I know that? Because scripture says that the great multitude is before the throne which is in heaven.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

You should let scripture draw your conclusions.

John was shown the new Earth and eternity in that chapter. It isn't the result of the rapture as there are far too many there. The wording is near exact to what is found in Rev 21.

Revelation 21 occurs at the end of the 1000 years. If you are looking for the great multitude you need to look in Revelation 19

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

These return with the Lord with the armies of heaven with the Lord.

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[ewq1938]

What you are saying is something that you have incorrectly concluded. You have no scriptural support. How do I know that? Because scripture says that the great multitude is before the throne which is in heaven.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

You should let scripture draw your conclusions.

You should take your own advice. You think the throne will only be in heaven? Rev 7 is the same timeframe as Rev 21, long after the GT and second coming and even the GWTJ.

Revelation 21 occurs at the end of the 1000 years. If you are looking for the great multitude you need to look in Revelation 19

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

These return with the Lord with the armies of heaven with the Lord.

That isn't a great multitude at all. It's the voice of God.

Whoever is following this might want to read this very long commentary:

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Revelation 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Revelation 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Here is a major jump in chronology. John now sees a huge multitude of people, all arrayed in white robes which symbolizes righteousness and that they are in spiritual bodies. They have come through "great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" which places this past the tribulation period and into the eternity. This multitude has overcome and have been judged to life.

Revelation 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

As you can see, the throne is not empty. God the Father is there upon it, and the Lamb, Jesus Christ, is next to Him and He will be on the right side of the throne.

This is a major "clue" to documenting just when this happens, for there are only certain times that the full Godhead (where they are, the Holy Spirit is naturally present) will be together like this, especially with a numberless crowd in the white robes of righteousness standing before them and giving praise. In short, this is definitely not happening right after the tribulation but a time after that. The next verses will help to establish just when this actually is.

Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Again, this would not be happening directly after the tribulation had ended, which would be the beginning of the Millennium for at that time Christ leaves heaven and takes most if not all of heavens angels and returns to the Earth at the 7th trump. Either this verse happens before that happens in heaven, or this is happening the next time Christ is together with God the father which wouldn't be until judgement day, and all time after that.

Revelation 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

This is comparable to this:

Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Ok, this is where it gets interesting.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

It is commonly assumed that this coming out "of great tribulation" is a reference to the tribulation of the antichrist and refers to no other tribulation. It actually means any and all tribulations, that these overcame all of them rather than a specific one. There are several "tribulations" that these shall endure through in order to be standing here in white robes praising God. The first one shall be that tribulation hour of the antichrist, then any who took satan's mark will suffer through God's tribulation, which will be all peoples except the elect which is a considerably smaller number than this multitude, and then there is that last testing of satan when he is released from the pit at the end of the Millennium and will convince and persuade a great numberless multitude to follow him to war with God. Unfortunately if they choose satan at that time, they shall be judged according to that decision for judgement starts right after that.

So, there are several times of tribulation, and even that 1000 year period could be considered another time of tribulation for those who must endure through the teaching and the disciplining.

tribulation
2347

2347 thlipsis {thlip'-sis}

from 2346; TDNT - 3:139,334; n f

AV - tribulation 21, affliction 17, trouble 3, anguish 1,
persecution 1, burdened 1, to be afflicted + 1519 1; 45

1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure
2) metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits

Tribulation is just a really rough time, of varying degrees. A time of distress, a time of stress, pressure and so forth.

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

That is God's tribulation and its something to be avoided.

Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

If this supposedly happens right after the end of the first tribulation of the antichrist, then this is within the time of the Millennium , the 1000 year reign of Christ. Do that many people have access to the temple in the Millennium ? I'm afraid not, for only the priests of the Zadok shall have access to the temple during that time. There shall not be such a large number of people who can approach the throne, in front of the full Godhead who are clothed as they are being symbolic of purity and righteousness. It also says the one on the throne dwells among them. When does God the Father dwell among mankind like this? The Eternity!

Rev_21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

This should sound familiar. When is there a time that we should not hunger nor thirst anymore?

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

In chapter 21 we have passed the time of judgement are are now being given a glimpse of the eternity in the new age with the new Heaven and the new Earth ages beginning.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

This is why we thirst no more. Christ gives unto us the water of life, and it will quench our thirst forever.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And
let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

This is something available to those who overcome and are that bride of Christ.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

This is the tree of life and we shall partake of it's fruits and there will be no hunger. The famine of the end times is for hearing the word of God, but at this time the word of God will be with us forever and we shall never hunger again.

Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Again, this is something that only takes place during the eternity.

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for
the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Amen, let there be light, the light of Christ.

Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

He shall feed us and give us to drink from the waters of life.

Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

There is only one time that God dwells with us and wipes away our tears my friends:

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is
with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

There shall be no tears or sorrow at that time because they are of the things that are passed away and do not exist anymore. This only exists during the eternity.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all
nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the
Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

This also happens in the eternity.

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Revelation 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

The nations come before the throne to honor God.

In conclusion, Revelation 7:9-end is a glimpse of the eternity as are the latter chapters of Revelation, and this great multitude is there before the throne not simply after the tribulation, but after all tribulations have ended. They have overcome all tribulations they have faced and have been judged to life and are free to worship God forever and partake of all the wonderful things promised to us by God.

 

[Keraz]

Therefore, the silence in heaven will be for a half hour on earth.

This is confusion, it makes the Seventh Seal meaningless.
I stand by how it means a 48th of a thousand years. Which is about 20 years earth time, perfect to fulfil all that is Prophesied from Revelation 7 to Rev 19:10/

Gog Magog is after a thousand years of Christ's Millennium on earth expires, which thousand years begins with His glorious second coming.

This is clearly wrong and there are very few who agree with this.
Gog and his huge army will attack God's holy peoples and the Lord will destroy them as He Promises them protection. Ezekiel 38-39

The mention of Gog in Revelation 20, is just as an example of a huge army.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Revelation 8:1 When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about a half hour.

It all fits and I see the Hand of God in it.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Re: "Ons dag" Rule out; should be the Reformation

 

[Keraz]

I love you 'Seth Efricans'.
But Afrikaans is impossible for me to understand.

My belief about the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, is that it will mostly affect the Middle East region and the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[robert derrick]

This is confusion, it makes the Seventh Seal meaningless.

It's not possible to make Scripture meaningless by quoting it as written.

What it makes meaningless, is interpretation of Scripture made by changing the Scripture from it's plain meaning.

There is never any excuse for changing the plain meaning of Scripture. About the space of an half hour means exactly that, or else God's words used by His eyewitnesses, mean nothing anywhere in Scripture, including having heard the voice and seen the cloud on the mount.

There is absolutely nothing symbolic, allegorical, nor mysterious about the space of a half hour. Once it's made into something else, then no words of Scripture have any more meaning, and any prophecy and doctrine of Scripture can be changed at will by any man.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Stick with plain meaning of plain words, and go from there. Otherwise, call the Bible just a book of fables and symbols of men.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

If the words 'half hour' in English does not men 'half hour', then the words heard, Thou art my beloved Son, do not mean in English His beloved Son.

I stand by how it means a 48th of a thousand years.

Yes you do, which means nothing to me nor any child reading about a half hour.

Confusing a little child is confusion indeed. A little child can read about a red dragon, and know that is what the words are talking about, while also understand it may certainly be symbolic, ev3en as there may not be a real Santa Claus.

But no one reads about a space of a half hour, and thinks of 48th of a thousand years. Except someone that has taught himself to think so.

And doing so by some metaphysical philosophy about 'time' in heaven, that has no Scripture saying so, only launches interpreters into the realm of words, that have no meaning as written. And now all words of Scripture may be changed at will of any man.

Instead, the simple student of Scripture, takes words of god serious enough to be mean just what He says, and so concludes from the Scripture, that time in heaven is the same as time on earth. And no one in heaven is ever bored, impatient, nor tired of time in heaven.

Which is about 20 years earth time, perfect to fulfil all that is Prophesied from Revelation 7 to Rev 19:10/

And so we see where the amount of time written by God in Scripture, is made not to matter, in order to make definitive statements about amount of time to fulfill His prophecy, which is only written by God in Scripture.

A half hour doesn't mean a half hour, but 2o years does. A little thing as close as a half hour is confusing, but the bigger thing as far apart as 20 years does.

5 inches is confusing, but 50 miles is simple.

This is clearly wrong and there are very few who agree with this.

Once again, stating Scripture as written is clearly not wrong.

I say that Gog and Magog will not be devoured on earth by fire of God, until after the thousand years of Christ reigning on earth is expired.

And about the space of a half hour in time, is about a half hour in time.

Gog and his huge army will attack God's holy peoples and the Lord will destroy them as He Promises them protection. Ezekiel 38-39

True. And Gog with Magog's huger army attacks again a thousand years later, and God devours them with His fire out of hand

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Time in heaven is not and cannot be the same as earthly time, heaven doesn’t rotate or orbit the sun.

Time is a physical dimension - true. It can be altered by speed and gravity and is measured by the earth's and sun's rotations. So spiritual time in heaven, another dimension, is not measured the same way.
However, if an angel appeared today, spoke to me and said 100 words and then left, how long would that take? Let's say it took one minute. Now if we are in heaven and 100 words are spoken to whomever _ at the same rate _ wouldn't that be a measure of time equivalent to ours on earth? I think so. A conversation would endure the same amount of time - we just won't be concerned about measuring it. There will be no punching clocks, alarms to wake up, for there will be no sleep, nor appointments to keep or will there be? If the Lord wants to speak with us, it will just happen. Wait a minute, what if we want to see a relative and have lunch and at the same moment they have something else in mind to do. "Oh, Ron, I ate already and am currently swimming with a friend ... we'll have to hook up later!" "Later, when?" "About as long as it takes me to swim and be fulfilled". "Do you remember what a couple hours was on earth? About that long!" Just had a thought about that. There won't be any confusion about anything, no misunderstandings, likely communication will be perfect - so we will just know what to do and when.
But silence for what appears to be 1/2 hour in heaven may only be seconds on earth. So though no one will be concerned about measuring time anymore, I would think there will be order in our activities , a continuous forward progression of moment after moment, one in the past and one yet to come is a sense of time, spiritual time.
What I conceive heaven to be is like earth, only perfect. So a tree is a tree, only perfect. It will be spiritual, but have physical qualities as far as touch, smell, colors, fruit that you can eat. So time is not that different, just not measured the same way.

 

[The Light]

You should take your own advice. You think the throne will only be in heaven? Rev 7 is the same timeframe as Rev 21, long after the GT and second coming and even the GWTJ.

Wow. We have an absolutely PERFECT timeline. The 1st 6 seals line up exactly with Matthew 24. We can the Great Tribulation in both the seals and Matthew 24. Then Jesus comes for a harvest and the wrath of God begins. And somehow you think that the Great Tribulation ends up after the 1000 years. You need to throw out your conclusions and start fresh because you are way, way off the path.

That isn't a great multitude at all. It's the voice of God.

How can you possibly think that. Read it again.

Revelation 19

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

This is not God talking. It is the great multitude.

Revelation 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

You are drawing so many incorrect conclusions that you need to just start over and forget what you think you know. Read what it says.

Whoever is following this might want to read this very long commentary:

Here is a major jump in chronology. John now sees a huge multitude of people, all arrayed in white robes which symbolizes righteousness and that they are in spiritual bodies. They have come through "great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" which places this past the tribulation period and into the eternity. This multitude has overcome and have been judged to life.

Another wrong conclusion. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. And then the wrath of God begins. Those people are in heaven for the marriage supper.

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Then the armies of heaven return to earth at the end of the wrath of God.

How can you possibly conclude that this is the time of the GWTJ? That's a 1000 years later.

As you can see, the throne is not empty. God the Father is there upon it, and the Lamb, Jesus Christ, is next to Him and He will be on the right side of the throne.

This is a major "clue" to documenting just when this happens, for there are only certain times that the full Godhead (where they are, the Holy Spirit is naturally present) will be together like this, especially with a numberless crowd in the white robes of righteousness standing before them and giving praise. In short, this is definitely not happening right after the tribulation but a time after that. The next verses will help to establish just when this actually is.

So, you have concluded that it is not happening after the great tribulation even though we have proof that the great multitude comes out of great tribulation.

Revleation 7
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Again, this would not be happening directly after the tribulation had ended, which would be the beginning of the Millennium for at that time Christ leaves heaven and takes most if not all of heavens angels and returns to the Earth at the 7th trump. Either this verse happens before that happens in heaven, or this is happening the next time Christ is together with God the father which wouldn't be until judgement day, and all time after that.

The tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal and THEN the wrath of God BEGINS.

It is commonly assumed that this coming out "of great tribulation" is a reference to the tribulation of the antichrist and refers to no other tribulation. It actually means any and all tribulations, that these overcame all of them rather than a specific one. There are several "tribulations" that these shall endure through in order to be standing here in white robes praising God. The first one shall be that tribulation hour of the antichrist, then any who took satan's mark will suffer through God's tribulation, which will be all peoples except the elect which is a considerably smaller number than this multitude, and then there is that last testing of satan when he is released from the pit at the end of the Millennium and will convince and persuade a great numberless multitude to follow him to war with God. Unfortunately if they choose satan at that time, they shall be judged according to that decision for judgement starts right after that.

Wrong conclusion that goes against what the scripture says.

If this supposedly happens right after the end of the first tribulation of the antichrist, then this is within the time of the Millennium , the 1000 year reign of Christ. Do that many people have access to the temple in the Millennium ? I'm afraid not, for only the priests of the Zadok shall have access to the temple during that time. There shall not be such a large number of people who can approach the throne, in front of the full Godhead who are clothed as they are being symbolic of purity and righteousness. It also says the one on the throne dwells among them. When does God the Father dwell among mankind like this? The Eternity!

Rev_21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

This should sound familiar. When is there a time that we should not hunger nor thirst anymore?

In chapter 21 we have passed the time of judgement are are now being given a glimpse of the eternity in the new age with the new Heaven and the new Earth ages beginning.

Everything falls into place perfectly. If you would just put aside your conclusions, which are in error, and just read what it says.