The Sin Nature

[marks]

The fundamental sin nature, that propensity to live in corrupt desires of the flesh, is discussed here:

"5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh" Romans 8:5​

I agree that the NIV's phrase 'sin nature' and the way Christians have used it is misleading. The problem of a 'sin nature' is really a mind and soul thing rather than a flesh thing. When one is born again that mindset gets replaced with the mindset of the Spirit, and all that remains is the flesh and it's desires.

One of the difficulties that comes when one concludes that we have a "sin nature" that is not describing the corruption of our flesh is that we have to then read passages of the Bible as if they don't mean the exact thing they are saying. How much of a habit do you want to make of doing that?

Romans 7:5 KJV
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

"Members" here is literally "body parts". When we were in the flesh refers to when we lived a life derived from living in our bodies. Now we are in the Spirit, and we have life derived from the Holy Spirit. So that should the body die, we continue in life, His life in us.

Romans 7:14-25 KJV
14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This entire passage is given to teach us the distinction of when we were in flesh, and now that we are spirit. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) lives no good thing.

He speaks in specific terms of the inner man, and the flesh, consisting of our members, the body of this death. All these terms are of our physical being.

Ephesians 2:3 KJV
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The desires of the flesh, everything from being hungry or thirsty, to lusting for sex or money or power, whatever the desires of the flesh are.

There is much in Scripture like this.

Why is it important? It's what the Bible says, and we should accept what the Bible says. It demystifies sin and temptation. There is not some "unseen power" looming over us, a "sin nature" that somehow has power to reach into your life and mess you around. Our bodies are corrupted, damaged. One day that damage will be undone, and we will be free of it's lusts. But in the meantime, that's all it is, a broken body that is perverted (wrongly bent) towards evil, but we have the power to control it, because we have become alive in Christ.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

God created man to live in the flesh forever.

That is not... what The Word of God teaches.

Instead, that is an idea from Occultists. It is they that believe in the ability of flesh to be made perfect.

See my post #19 where I go in more detail about that.

For this reason, that the flesh can never... become perfect, Apostle Paul said the following...

1 Cor 6:13
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
KJV

Our flesh body is for this present world, not the world to come. Our flesh body is temporary, even as Paul showed above. And Paul goes into even more detail about that in the 1 Corinthians 15 chapter, which the Occultists reject totally.

 

[Charlie24]

That is not... what The Word of God teaches.

Instead, that is an idea from Occultists. It is they that believe in the ability of flesh to be made perfect.

See my post #19 where I go in more detail about that.

For this reason, that the flesh can never... become perfect, Apostle Paul said the following...

1 Cor 6:13
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
KJV

Our flesh body is for this present world, not the world to come. Our flesh body is temporary, even as Paul showed above. And Paul goes into even more detail about that in the 1 Corinthians 15 chapter, which the Occultists reject totally.

Of course man fell, and cannot become perfect on his own, but perfection comes through the resurrection!

In Genesis man lived to be over 900 years old, by the time of David, God said man's day's shall be 70 years.

Man will live forever in the flesh in the same glorified body that Jesus resurrected with.

 

[marks]

Lot of theologians also suggest that state of Adam and Eve before they sinned is what God is going to return us to, which is nowhere written in His Word. So Adam and Eve in the flesh really is not a good example of the problem, because just the fact that Eve's flesh is what was tempted, reveals a potential error in the flesh to begin with.

I think the heart of the matter is this. Only God is good. In that God pronounced His creation good, it was, but with an imparted goodness, not intrinsic goodness. God is intrinsically good, and does not change. Creation was created good, but not intrinsically good, and was subject to change. And change came.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Our flesh, which God created for this present world time, and is to be destroyed, is never meant to be perfect. Nor can it ever be made perfect. It is a body of corruption, doomed to destruction back to the elements where it came from, either at flesh death, or at the change on the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

I like the literal translation in Philippians 3,

Philippians 3:21 KJV
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Literally "who shall change the body of our humiliation" to be like unto His glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-49 KJV
44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Then where does sin come from? Only outside sources? It is because of the Devil?

God sent Moses with 10 commandments to let us know what sin is.

One of them is to not covet.

Is the sin within you when you steal or covet but you don’t realize it until you see the 10 commandments which says do not steal?

Here is what Paul said about in Roman’s 7

Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire.

 

[marks]

God created man to live in the flesh forever. When God's plan comes full circle we are right back at man living in the flesh through the resurrection.

Yes, Paul discusses our sin nature for sure in Rom. 6-8. When Paul said in Rom. 6:14, "for sin shall not have dominion over you..." he is speaking of the sin nature. In Rom. 7:9 when Paul mentions "...sin revived..." that is the sin nature beginning to take over.

I certainly agree that many of the translations have made an effort omit the presence of the sin nature. I was taught with the KJV from a child, it's not perfect, but I stick with it knowing these attempts to make changes is not present. Of course, I've just started another argument, lol.

Yes, we are created to live in bodies, on the earth, but not these bodies, and not this earth. Well, this body, but not this body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-46 KJV
42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

There is a transformation that takes place where we stop being terrestrial, and become celestial, or suited for both I think.

I think the battle against sin is a matter of subjugating our fleshy thoughts and feelings and desires. To rule over them, and not be ruled by them.

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, we are created to live in bodies, on the earth, but not these bodies, and not this earth. Well, this body, but not this body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-46 KJV
42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

There is a transformation that takes place where we stop being terrestrial, and become celestial, or suited for both I think.

I think the battle against sin is a matter of subjugating our fleshy thoughts and feelings and desires. To rule over them, and not be ruled by them.

Much love!

John said, that it does not yet appear what we shall be, but when we see Him, we shall be like Him.

We know we will have the same body and flesh our Lord had at His resurrection.

When Thomas handled Christ, it was a body of flesh and bones, no blood is mentioned.

From what I've read through the years from the great theologians the body is energized with blood, at the resurrection the blood is replaced with the energizing of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Of course this is not found in scripture, but it sounds as though it could be true.

 

[Behold]

People speak of a "sin nature", but I can't find that in my Bible.

What I do find is that our flesh has been corrupted by sin, and so until we are born again being baptized into Jesus Christ, we are spiritually dead, and are slaves to sin.Do we have a "sin nature"? What is it? Where are we taught this in the Bible?
Much love!

Jesus explains the "sin nature" like this..

"you are of YOUR FATHER.... the DEVIL, and the LUSTS>.....of.....Your FATHER.......you will do".

See those "lusts", that is the nature of the devil. That is the "sin nature".

The nature of sin, which is the fallen nature or the nature of the Devil : is LUST.. this is the "fallen adamic nature".

Paul refers to being "SENSUAL, and having not the SPIRIT",.....and he's making the distinction between the children of the devil, which is all unbelievers, as compared to the Children of God who are all the born again.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe we will have spiritual bodies personally @Charlie24 no one has to agree with me, simply agreeing with Paul when he had said,

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[marks]

The fundamental sin nature, that propensity to live in corrupt desires of the flesh, is discussed here:

"5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh" Romans 8:5​

I agree that the NIV's phrase 'sin nature' and the way Christians have used it is misleading. The problem of a 'sin nature' is really a mind and soul thing rather than a flesh thing. When one is born again that mindset gets replaced with the mindset of the Spirit, and all that remains is the flesh and it's desires.

The mind one has before being a Christian is the mind of the flesh, and those fleshy patterns in the mind continue to exist. That is why we must take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

We have to sort out our thoughts and feelings and desires into what is of flesh, and what is of Spirit. And not everything of flesh must be denied. We feel hungry and we should eat, and we should enjoy our food, it is a gift from God. But to excess is something to rule over.

Now we have the mind of Christ, yet still we have to deal with the mind of the flesh, those intrusive thoughts that are not Spirit/spirit. As we go about living new lives, even the fleshy mind is improved, we build a better character, brain plasiticity works in our favor, the "renewing of the mind".

We live transformed lives by walking in the Spirit, and it changes us to become more like Jesus in doing so.

2 Corinthians 3:18 LITV
18) But we all with our face having been unveiled, having beheld the glory of the Lord in a mirror, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord Spirit.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then where does sin come from? Only outside sources? It is because of the Devil?

God sent Moses with 10 commandments to let us know what sin is.

One of them is to not covet.

Is the sin within you when you steal or covet but you don’t realize it until you see the 10 commandments which says do not steal?

Here is what Paul said about in Roman’s 7

Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire.

Sin is in our flesh. Our flesh bodies were corrupted by sin, "in iniquity my mother conceived me", not that she was sinning in having a baby, but that baby was conceived in a fallen sinful humanity.

The Law shows us what that sin is, and the Law provokes the flesh to more sin. But that sin lives in our flesh.

Much love!

 

[theefaith]

People speak of a "sin nature", but I can't find that in my Bible.

What I do find is that our flesh has been corrupted by sin, and so until we are born again being baptized into Jesus Christ, we are spiritually dead, and are slaves to sin.

Do we have a "sin nature"? What is it? Where are we taught this in the Bible?

Much love!

born again don’t remove the sin nature and it don’t restore all things until the resurrection of the body

the sin nature is overcome by suffering

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

 

[marks]

John said, that it does not yet appear what we shall be, but when we see Him, we shall be like Him.

We know we will have the same body and flesh our Lord had at His resurrection.

When Thomas handled Christ, it was a body of flesh and bones, no blood is mentioned.

From what I've read through the years from the great theologians the body is energized with blood, at the resurrection the blood is replaced with the energizing of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Of course this is not found in scripture, but it sounds as though it could be true.

I've heard that but it just sounds strange to me, I don't know. I have seen how "flesh and bone" appears in a few places, like Ephesians, speaking of the body of Christ, flesh of His flesh, and bone of His bone, maybe because these are the solid parts you can feel?

Just like you said . . . it does not yet appear what we shall be. So true! And equally true, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is.

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I believe we will have spiritual bodies personally @Charlie24 no one has to agree with me, simply agreeing with Paul when he had said,

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Paul even said,

2 Corinthians 5:1-2 LITV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle is taken down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in Heaven.
2) For also in this we groan, greatly desiring to be clothed with our dwelling place out of Heaven,

We "have" a building from God . . . Now?

Much love!

 

[marks]

born again don’t remove the sin nature and it don’t restore all things until the resurrection of the body

the sin nature is overcome by suffering

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

I think that when we suffer we are pushed to trust Jesus more, and that training in trust helps us overcome sin.

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

I believe we will have spiritual bodies personally @Charlie24 no one has to agree with me, simply agreeing with Paul when he had said,

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

And no one who reads the scripture in the proper hermeneutics will believe you, Matthew.

Jesus ascended into heaven in a body of flesh and bones, no blood is mentioned in His body.

When the disciples were gathered together in the house with the door shut, Christ walked through that shut door in His glorified body of flesh. Now, no one can explain this, the human mind is not able to comprehend this, but I believe it!

It is my belief that Christ is at this vey moment sitting at the right hand of God in this body of glorified flesh, with the nail holes still in His hands and feet. When we see Him this is exactly how we will see Him.

Zechariah mentions the time when Israel will see their Messiah and know who He is, he mentions them seeing the wounds in His hands.

 

[MatthewG]

Paul even said,

2 Corinthians 5:1-2 LITV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle is taken down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in Heaven.
2) For also in this we groan, greatly desiring to be clothed with our dwelling place out of Heaven,

We "have" a building from God . . . Now?

Much love!

Our spiritual bodies are being built up now in which God dwells in by His Holy Spirit.

People in this life build up this spirit by having a relationship with God having love for him first and love for others in this life.

Upon death rewards are merited upon each individual and there are different glories such as like the stars some are very bright some are not so bright.

There is also the third resurrection which is different than all normal resurrections. You share it a lot it is found in Philippians 3.

 

[MatthewG]

And no one who reads the scripture in the proper hermeneutics will believe you, Matthew.

Jesus ascended into heaven in a body of flesh and bones, no blood is mentioned in His body.

When the disciples were gathered together in the house with the door shut, Christ walked through that shut door in His glorified body of flesh. Now, no one can explain this, the human mind is not able to comprehend this, but I believe it!

It is my belief that Christ is at this vey moment sitting at the right hand of God in this body of glorified flesh, with the nail holes still in His hands and feet. When we see Him this is exactly how we will see Him.

Zechariah mentions the time when Israel will see their Messiah and know who He is, he mentions them seeing the wounds in His hands.

Guess it’s where our understandings cross. I don’t see Jesus sitting at the right hand anymore.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

People speak of a "sin nature", but I can't find that in my Bible.

What I do find is that our flesh has been corrupted by sin, and so until we are born again being baptized into Jesus Christ, we are spiritually dead, and are slaves to sin.

Do we have a "sin nature"? What is it? Where are we taught this in the Bible?

Much love!

"Sin Nature" is just a euphemism to describe the fact that our human nature is incapapble of pleasing God as Paul wrote in romans 8. IN Corinth He also wrote the human nature thinks the things of God are foolish.. IN rom. 7 {Paul said sin dwells in our members. This is the sin nature. Being dead spiritually, we are enemies of god until we are born again! We cannot help but sin! IN our flesh (human nature) dwells NO good thing. Even our good deeds are filth before God.