The Sin Nature

[Charlie24]

Guess it’s where our understandings cross. I don’t see Jesus sitting at the right hand anymore.

I'm sorry to say, son, there are lots of things you don't see!

If you were to begin to read the scripture as literal, until it becomes obvious it's not literal, then you will see the scripture in a whole new light.

Your problem is the hermeneutics in which you interpret scripture! It's just the opposite of mine!

 

[MatthewG]

I'm sorry to say, son, there are lots of things you don't see!

If you were to begin to read the scripture as literal, until it becomes obvious it's not literal, then you will see the scripture in a whole new light.

Your problem is the hermeneutics in which you interpret scripture! It's just the opposite of mine!

You are right, the spirit leads us into truth.

The truth that I have decided to believe in is that Jesus wasn't wrong about the generation he spoke of coming back to, and the Apostles were not wrong either.

Famous person C.S. Lewis said that "Jesus saying this generation" is one of the greatest embarrassments ever. Many people try to make it future, as it talks about their generation. 40 years continue to pass and Jesus doesn't show up. So something is wrong here and it is a great delimma many christians face. Especially those who continue to teach that Jesus is coming soon...

 

[theefaith]

I think that when we suffer we are pushed to trust Jesus more, and that training in trust helps us overcome sin.

Much love!

Called to suffer with Christ not faith alone

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[Charlie24]

You are right, the spirit leads us into truth.

The truth that I have decided to believe in is that Jesus wasn't wrong about the generation he spoke of coming back to, and the Apostles were not wrong either.

Famous person C.S. Lewis said that "Jesus saying this generation" is one of the greatest embarrassments ever. Many people try to make it future, as it talks about their generation. 40 years continue to pass and Jesus doesn't show up. So something is wrong here and it is a great delimma many christians face. Especially those who continue to teach that Jesus is coming soon...

Christ describes the times just before and the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Matt. 24.

That generation in the future will witness something no other generation has seen.

Matt. 24:21-23

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.."

These are the warning for that generation! This has not happened by a long shot!

 

[MatthewG]

There are secular writers that will differ with you, Josephus, Suetonius, Cassius Dio, Tacitus @Charlie24. However that right there which is offered takes time to look at read and consider.

Love you brother! Can not help that we see differently but am willing to give information to consider.

@theefaith is true for us to suffer along with Christ. To deal with others patiently, even if they may not see our own side of thing, and deal with others by and through Spirit, and share Christ when one is moved.

 

[ChristisGod]

Guess it’s where our understandings cross. I don’t see Jesus sitting at the right hand anymore.

Who told/ taught you that lie ? Shawn ?

Where is Christ and what does in mean to be seated at the right hand of the Father?

hope this helps !!!

 

[theefaith]

Christ describes the times just before and the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Matt. 24.

That generation in the future will witness something no other generation has seen.

Matt. 24:21-23

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.."

These are the warning for that generation! This has not happened by a long shot!

the Buddhists say the lord maitreya is the Christ!

Some Charismatic cult leaders claim to be Christ!

do Christians “the elect” go thru the tribulation?

 

[theefaith]

Christ describes the times just before and the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Matt. 24.

That generation in the future will witness something no other generation has seen.

Matt. 24:21-23

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.."

These are the warning for that generation! This has not happened by a long shot!

the spirit leads the apostles into truth Jn 16:13 they must teach us
Matt 28:19 lk 1:4 acts 8:31

 

[MatthewG]

Who told/ taught you that lie ? Shawn ?

Where is Christ and what does in mean to be seated at the right hand of the Father?

hope this helps !!!

He is now the Lord God Almighty, who sits on the throne of his Father. That is how I believe.

Everything has to be couched in scripture to have any merit for the most part. Jesus was coming quickly as it is stated many times through the Revelation.

Revelation 4
New International Version

The Throne in Heaven
4 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne.4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. 6 Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’

who was, and is, and is to come.”

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

 

[Charlie24]

the Buddhists say the lord maitreya is the Christ!

Some Charismatic cult leaders claim to be Christ!

do Christians “the elect” go thru the tribulation?

Christ is speaking to Israel! There will many come saying they are the Messiah!

Matt. 24 is directed to Israel in the very end before His return.

 

[Charlie24]

He is now the Lord God Almighty, who sits on the throne of his Father. That is how I believe.

Everything has to be couched in scripture to have any merit for the most part. Jesus was coming quickly as it is stated many times through the Revelation.

No, Matthew! Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, UNTIL He makes His enemies His footstool!

The end is yet to come, it's being arranged for it to take place.

 

[ChristisGod]

He is now the Lord God Almighty, who sits on the throne of his Father. That is how I believe.

Everything has to be couched in scripture to have any merit for the most part. Jesus was coming quickly as it is stated many times through the Revelation.

No he isn’t now all of a sudden “ god almighty “. The Son has always been God Almighty , there was never a millisecond when He wasn’t God Almighty . God is Immutable, Theology 101.

hope this helps !!!!

 

[ChristisGod]

No, Matthew! Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, UNTIL He makes His enemies His footstool!

The end is yet to come, it's being arranged for it to take place.

Amen

 

[MatthewG]

Understandable you guys. It is because you hold a different view of revelation than myself. As I believe everything has been fulfilled.

Doesn't make a difference to me personally what you believe because you will remain unmoved from your stance. Myself use to believe Jesus was coming back, but then the thought occurred to me... Why hasn't Jesus come back at all considering this is what is normally taught through many churches. You can see it on the signs outside of them with "Jesus is coming back" Or even how do you like your sitting "Smoking or non-smoking", it is very silly, and funny however this is not a salvation issue in my best estimation. What it is though, how you view the revelation be it futurist or not, it does play an impact on how one decides to live their life. Some fear death, some fear hell, some fear God himself just so they won't end up in hell. The fact of this still remains.

John wrote to seven churches in Asia Minor. Very real living breathing people, telling them of Jesus coming back quickly.

There are four different views mainly being the Idealist - which says Revelation will never be fulfilled, The preterist view means the contents have been fulfilled. The historicist view means that the contents of Revelation are being fulfilled, and the futurist (most dominate) the contents of the Revelation will someday be fulfilled.

Whatever "camp" you put yourself into is up to you, I love all people regardless of their view of whatever it is they believe, however when it comes to scripture analyses of a study of "eschatology" it has to be done properly in my best estimation.

I do not have it all down or put together very well, however I still remain in belief unchanged that Jesus was never a liar. Nor was the Apostles, and the Apostles rule over the very first-born church bride that Jesus as going to return to get.

Love to you both my brothers, and this is not the thread we should be sharing this in anyway, and I will take my leave for the sake of Marks.

 

[Davy]

God created man to live in the flesh forever. When God's plan comes full circle we are right back at man living in the flesh through the resurrection.

Yes, Paul discusses our sin nature for sure in Rom. 6-8. When Paul said in Rom. 6:14, "for sin shall not have dominion over you..." he is speaking of the sin nature. In Rom. 7:9 when Paul mentions "...sin revived..." that is the sin nature beginning to take over.

I certainly agree that many of the translations have made an effort omit the presence of the sin nature. I was taught with the KJV from a child, it's not perfect, but I stick with it knowing these attempts to make changes is not present. Of course, I've just started another argument, lol.

The orthodox Jews especially believed in a literal flesh body resurrection, mainly because of Scripture like Genesis 2:7 with wrongly thinking that our soul is part of our flesh creation. It's not though, as Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28.

The New Testament goes into more depth about how God created us. I find that very few understand what Paul was teaching in 1 Corinthians 15 because of the tradition of the perfection of flesh idea.

You know, even Apostle John couldn't quit understand just what kind of body Lord Jesus appeared to His Apostles with. But John did show that he knew it was not exactly like the flesh body we have today...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

By John saying that, "and it doth not yet appear what we shall be", he was showing he did not quite understand just what kind of body Christ's resurrected body was. It looked like flesh, felt like flesh, and Jesus could eat man's food. But Jesus was able to appear and disappear in the midst of them. And John obviously knew a flesh body cannot do that.

Apostle Paul understood this difference also, just by what he said here...

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

 

[marks]

You are right, the spirit leads us into truth.

The truth that I have decided to believe in is that Jesus wasn't wrong about the generation he spoke of coming back to, and the Apostles were not wrong either.

Famous person C.S. Lewis said that "Jesus saying this generation" is one of the greatest embarrassments ever. Many people try to make it future, as it talks about their generation. 40 years continue to pass and Jesus doesn't show up. So something is wrong here and it is a great delimma many christians face. Especially those who continue to teach that Jesus is coming soon...

Generation in that place should be understood as referring to the ethnic group of the Jews, which is one of the meanings of that word, genea. That's the context of the passage, the rescue of the Jews from total distruction.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Called to suffer with Christ not faith alone

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Great group of Scriptures!! Thank you for posting this!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Christ describes the times just before and the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Matt. 24.

That generation in the future will witness something no other generation has seen.

Matt. 24:21-23

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.."

These are the warning for that generation! This has not happened by a long shot!

Generation in that place should be understood as referring to the ethnic group of the Jews, which is one of the meanings of that word, genea. That's the context of the passage, the rescue of the Jews from total distruction.

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

The orthodox Jews especially believed in a literal flesh body resurrection, mainly because of Scripture like Genesis 2:7 with wrongly thinking that our soul is part of our flesh creation. It's not though, as Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28.

The New Testament goes into more depth about how created us. I find that very few understand what Paul was teaching in 1 Corinthians 15 because of the tradition of the perfection of flesh idea.

You know, even Apostle John couldn't quit understand just what kind of body Lord Jesus appeared to His Apostles with. But John did show that he knew it was not exactly like the flesh body we have today...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

By John saying that, "and it doth not yet appear what we shall be", he was showing he did not quite understand just what kind of body Christ's resurrected body was. It looked like flesh, felt like flesh, and Jesus could eat man's food. But Jesus was able to appear and disappear in the midst of them. And John obviously knew a flesh body cannot do that.

Apostle Paul understood this difference also, just by what he said here...

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

John didn't understand what kind of flesh that was either, just like us.

John saw that flesh in person, He knew Christ walked through that door where they were gathered.

I agree that we don't yet know what we shall be, the power we will have, the abilities that glorified state of flesh will give us.

It's all a wonder to us as well as to him. Obviously the Lord did not explain any of this to the 12 apostles, but I do believe Paul had a much better idea of what it is through his revelation from Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

Generation in that place should be understood as referring to the ethnic group of the Jews, which is one of the meanings of that word, genea. That's the context of the passage, the rescue of the Jews from total distruction.

Much love!

Exactly, as I said in a previous post, Matt. 24 is directed to the Jews!