The size of the new city of Jerusalem (Revelation 21:16-17)

[Thorwald]

Using my dictionary to equate 'cubits' to Imperial measure, I come to 300+ miles long, wide and high. Does this make sense to you, or is the 'old cubit' a different measure than my dictionary's measure?

 

[Thorwald]

Using my dictionary to equate 'cubits' to Imperial measure, I come to 300+ miles long, wide and high. Does this make sense to you, or is the 'old cubit' a different measure than my dictionary's measure?

I meant to write 'furlongs', instead of 'cubits'. Sorry.

 

[ScaliaFan]

The new Jerusalem is the Church

the one founded by Christ

and there is only ONE

God is not the author of confusion

 

[Trekson]

My bible says 1377 miles.

 

[Thorwald]

The new Jerusalem is the Church

the one founded by Christ

and there is only ONE

God is not the author of confusion

What's this got to do with my posted question??????

 

[Thorwald]

My bible says 1377 miles.

Which Bible are you using, and what does the 1,377 miles represent (length, width, height, sum of these three)?

 

[ezekiel]

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

This would look really funny setting on Earth. Looking up at the stars and planets that God Created I do not see it sticking out that way.
You must ask yourself are the measurements of a man or that is of a Angel. If its that of a Angel then it could be at least 10x that maybe the size of Neptune or Uranus.

 

[Trekson]

I would say that each distance of length, breadth and height are equally 1377 miles. (KJ Study Bible) Obviously, it won't rest on the earth but will hover above it.

 

[Thorwald]

I would say that each distance of length, breadth and height are equally 1377 miles. (KJ Study Bible) Obviously, it won't rest on the earth but will hover above it.

Remember, that the city has FOUNDATIONS, so it must rest on the earth. I'm not certain how to interpret the 'size' as per scripture, as it is difficult to know if the scriptures are telling us 'individual' measure of length, width, height or 'combined' measure of these three. We then have to deal with the wall around the city as per the scriptures.

The city has to be fairly large, in order to accommodate 'ALL ISRAEL' and the gentiles who are saved (of course, I'm assuming, that each person would take up similar space with their new bodies, as they do now). The scriptures tell us, that those who are in the city, will not go out, and those who are on the outside, cannot go in. We then have to add the creatures who will be on the inside, plus the throne of God, plus the vegetation, plus the road paved with gold, plus the river of life, and so on. Then we have to consider the many mansions, and so on.

The dimensions per the scriptures, are hard to visualize, because the 'height' of the city is beyond any mountains found on the earth today, including under the ocean. It's mind-boggling.

 

[Dcopymope]

Using my dictionary to equate 'cubits' to Imperial measure, I come to 300+ miles long, wide and high. Does this make sense to you, or is the 'old cubit' a different measure than my dictionary's measure?

Remember, that the city has FOUNDATIONS, so it must rest on the earth. I'm not certain how to interpret the 'size' as per scripture, as it is difficult to know if the scriptures are telling us 'individual' measure of length, width, height or 'combined' measure of these three. We then have to deal with the wall around the city as per the scriptures.

The city has to be fairly large, in order to accommodate 'ALL ISRAEL' and the gentiles who are saved (of course, I'm assuming, that each person would take up similar space with their new bodies, as they do now). The scriptures tell us, that those who are in the city, will not go out, and those who are on the outside, cannot go in. We then have to add the creatures who will be on the inside, plus the throne of God, plus the vegetation, plus the road paved with gold, plus the river of life, and so on. Then we have to consider the many mansions, and so on.

The dimensions per the scriptures, are hard to visualize, because the 'height' of the city is beyond any mountains found on the earth today, including under the ocean. It's mind-boggling.

Actually it states no where that no one is to go in or out of the city. It says that all in the book of life will come and go as often as they will to honor God and eat from the tree of life. So the city obviously won't be hovering in the sky like some science fiction movie like some seem to only believe due to its immense size. The new earth will be much different than the one we have now in its very geographical makeup. The continents will likely become only one.

(Revelation 21:23-27) "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. {24} And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. {25} And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. {26} And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. {27} And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

If this verse isn't self-explanatory to you, then I will have no choice but to conclude that your logic is not sound.

 

[Thorwald]

Actually it states no where that no one is to go in or out of the city. It says that all in the book of life will come and go as often as they will to honor God and eat from the tree of life. So the city obviously won't be hovering in the sky like some science fiction movie like some seem to only believe due to its immense size. The new earth will be much different than the one we have now in its very geographical makeup. The continents will likely become only one.


If this verse isn't self-explanatory to you, then I will have no choice but to conclude that your logic is not sound.

The only light, is in the new City, and comes from the throne of God. All those who are on the outside, are in darkness. It is written, that those who are not saved, will face gnashing of teeth day and night, in darkness, for ever and ever. I read in the NT scriptures (several years ago), that those who are on the inside, will not go out. Everything is supplied in the new city. It also contains many mansions. Only those who are saved, can enter the new city. Why would they wish to go out, if on the outside, there is NO light? I am not sure where I read in the scriptures, that those who are on the inside, will not go out. I'll try to find the scriptures, that say so.

The other 'thing' one has to consider, is Revelation 22:15. Why would anyone want to be where these people are? Why would you go out of the city? What would be your purpose? The city is very large and high. There is no city currently on earth (that I know of) that is as large.

 

[Dcopymope]

The only light, is in the new City, and comes from the throne of God. All those who are on the outside, are in darkness. It is written, that those who are not saved, will face gnashing of teeth day and night, in darkness, for ever and ever. I read in the NT scriptures (several years ago), that those who are on the inside, will not go out. Everything is supplied in the new city. It also contains many mansions. Only those who are saved, can enter the new city. Why would they wish to go out, if on the outside, there is NO light? I am not sure where I read in the scriptures, that those who are on the inside, will not go out. I'll try to find the scriptures, that say so.

The other 'thing' one has to consider, is Revelation 22:15. Why would anyone want to be where these people are? Why would you go out of the city? What would be your purpose? The city is very large and high. There is no city currently on earth (that I know of) that is as large.

At no point does it actually state anywhere old or new testament that there will not be a sun and moon. When it says that he created a new heaven, that includes the sun, stars, and moon just like it did before the fall of man in Eden. The day/night cycle will be there, just not for the city of God. And of course only those who are saved can enter the city. If you are allowed into the new heaven and earth at all, then that means you are saved, because you are in the Book of life. It states quite clearly that those in the book of life, will be allowed to enter into the city to eat of the fruit of the tree of life as often as they will.

(Revelation 21:23-27) "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. {24} And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. {25} And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. {26} And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. {27} And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

(Revelation 22:2) "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

Again, its all about the city not needing any light, because God himself provides light for the city, NOT the earth. To state that this includes the rest of the earth is inductive reasoning. You are adding an idea into the scripture that isn't even implied. Your entire premise is based on an all too common falsehood.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Thorwald, Your words: "Remember, that the city has FOUNDATIONS, so it must rest on the earth."

Not necessarily. Rev. 21:10 says: "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,"

It's not built on the earth. It's already built with the foundations BEFORE it descends.

 

[Thorwald]

The new Jerusalem is the Church

the one founded by Christ

and there is only ONE

God is not the author of confusion

Where did you get this 'info'? Are you saying that the book of Revelation is FALSE??????

 

[Thorwald]

At no point does it actually state anywhere old or new testament that there will not be a sun and moon. When it says that he created a new heaven, that includes the sun, stars, and moon just like it did before the fall of man in Eden. The day/night cycle will be there, just not for the city of God. And of course only those who are saved can enter the city. If you are allowed into the new heaven and earth at all, then that means you are saved, because you are in the Book of life. It states quite clearly that those in the book of life, will be allowed to enter into the city to eat of the fruit of the tree of life as often as they will.








Again, its all about the city not needing any light, because God himself provides light for the city, NOT the earth. To state that this includes the rest of the earth is inductive reasoning. You are adding an idea into the scripture that isn't even implied. Your entire premise is based on an all too common falsehood.

You are not taking into account other scriptures in the New Testament, including Revelation. Those who are not saved shall be cast out into outer DARKNESS, where there will be gnashing of teeth, day and night, forever. Those on the outside of the walls surrounding the new city, are the 'abominations'. The book of Revelation can be interpreted to say, that 'there is a ONE TIME entrance into the city by those who are saved'. When you consider that the road to salvation is very narrow, and FEW there are who will travel this road, then also consider the size of this new city, where there is room inside the walls for many kingdoms and mansions. Consider the length and width of the city. It is a HUGE city. One of the reasons for such high walls, may be to trap the light inside the city, so that those on the outside can only see light that escapes through the open gates.

 

[Dcopymope]

You are not taking into account other scriptures in the New Testament, including Revelation. Those who are not saved shall be cast out into outer DARKNESS, where there will be gnashing of teeth, day and night, forever. Those on the outside of the walls surrounding the new city, are the 'abominations'. The book of Revelation can be interpreted to say, that 'there is a ONE TIME entrance into the city by those who are saved'. When you consider that the road to salvation is very narrow, and FEW there are who will travel this road, then also consider the size of this new city, where there is room inside the walls for many kingdoms and mansions. Consider the length and width of the city. It is a HUGE city. One of the reasons for such high walls, may be to trap the light inside the city, so that those on the outside can only see light that escapes through the open gates.

The term "outer darkness" has nothing at all to do with anything in the new heaven and earth, or to those outside of the city allegedly being in darkness. Yet again, you are adding ideas in scripture that aren't there. The book of Matthew, particularly the 25th chapter, tells us what Jesus meant by the term "outer darkness", this is not rocket science. Outer Darkness is in reference to the great white throne of judgement described in Revelation 20 where the 'goats' on his left hand will be cast into the lake of fire along with Satan and rest of the angels for all eternity, occurring after the second coming of the Son of Man. At no point is it stated anywhere about "outer darkness" being on the face of the earth due to no sun, moon or stars in the new heaven and earth. That is your assumption by inductive reasoning.

(Matthew 25:29-46) "For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. {30} And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. {31} ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: {32} And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: {33} And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. {34} Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: {35} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: {36} Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. {37} Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? {38} When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? {39} Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? {40} And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

{41} Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: {42} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: {43} I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. {44} Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? {45} Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. {46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

 

[Thorwald]

Hi Thorwald, Your words: "Remember, that the city has FOUNDATIONS, so it must rest on the earth."

Not necessarily. Rev. 21:10 says: "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,"

It's not built on the earth. It's already built with the foundations BEFORE it descends.

I am aware of Revelation 21:10. It doesn't change the fact, that a 'foundation' is what a structure rests on. If it floated around, then it wouldn't need a foundation.

 

[Thorwald]

The term "outer darkness" has nothing at all to do with anything in the new heaven and earth, or to those outside of the city allegedly being in darkness. Yet again, you are adding ideas in scripture that aren't there. The book of Matthew, particularly the 25th chapter, tells us what Jesus meant by the term "outer darkness", this is not rocket science. Outer Darkness is in reference to the great white throne of judgement described in Revelation 20 where the 'goats' on his left hand will be cast into the lake of fire along with Satan and rest of the angels for all eternity, occurring after the second coming of the Son of Man. At no point is it stated anywhere about "outer darkness" being on the face of the earth due to no sun, moon or stars in the new heaven and earth. That is your assumption by inductive reasoning.

Hi. I still have trouble with the 'kings and their nations' living outside of the new Jerusalem. I also 'flip-flopped' back and forth originally, going from your understanding to what I posted. If I take your understanding, then the kings and their nations would have day and night, but all who live in the city, have constant 'day' [light]. Why would this be necessary? Why the difference? What exactly, differentiates the 'kings and their nations' from those who are saved? Do you understand my point?

 

[Dcopymope]

Hi. I still have trouble with the 'kings and their nations' living outside of the new Jerusalem. I also 'flip-flopped' back and forth originally, going from your understanding to what I posted. If I take your understanding, then the kings and their nations would have day and night, but all who live in the city, have constant 'day' [light]. Why would this be necessary? Why the difference? What exactly, differentiates the 'kings and their nations' from those who are saved? Do you understand my point?

All you have to do is follow the chronology of events as they are supposed to occur in Revelation. If you are allowed to live at all in the new heaven and earth, then it means that you were in the book of life and henceforth will be granted access to the tree of life. In the new heaven and earth, there is no difference between "the saved", or the bride of Christ and the kings and their nations. In the new heaven and earth you are either saved or you aren't, and those who aren't saved, who are not found in the book of life, are the goats Jesus spoke of that will be cast into the lake of fire.

The confusion between the two also comes from the purpose of the tree of life itself. The tree of life is not for the bride of Christ, because Jesus Christ himself IS the life. It says in Revelation 20 that death itself will no longer have any power over those of the first Resurrection. The tree of life therefore is for those of the second Resurrection who will be judged according to their works. Those who are found in the book of life from the second Resurrection will be granted access to the kingdom to eat of the tree of life. This is how the kingdom will be set up that is apparently not as well understood by many Christians as it should be.

 

[Thorwald]

All you have to do is follow the chronology of events as they are supposed to occur in Revelation. If you are allowed to live at all in the new heaven and earth, then it means that you were in the book of life and henceforth will be granted access to the tree of life. In the new heaven and earth, there is no difference between "the saved", or the bride of Christ and the kings and their nations. In the new heaven and earth you are either saved or you aren't, and those who aren't saved, who are not found in the book of life, are the goats Jesus spoke of that will be cast into the lake of fire.

The confusion between the two also comes from the purpose of the tree of life itself. The tree of life is not for the bride of Christ, because Jesus Christ himself IS the life. It says in Revelation 20 that death itself will no longer have any power over those of the first Resurrection. The tree of life therefore is for those of the second Resurrection who will be judged according to their works. Those who are found in the book of life from the second Resurrection will be granted access to the kingdom to eat of the tree of life. This is how the kingdom will be set up that is apparently not as well understood by many Christians as it should be.

I 'think' I'm understanding what you are saying. There are a great deal of people who lived and died before Christ was born, and therefore never had the opportunity to believe upon Him. I thought that Christ visited all who were in 'prison', and gave them a chance to believe in Him, prior to Him returning to earth, being resurrected. There are those who lived in the past, that WERE NOT thrown into prison, and these people followed God's Word, and glorified God. Are these, 'perhaps', the ones making up the 'kings and nations' referred to in Revelation?