Where is "The Beloved City" and "the camp of the saints" of Revelation 20?

[Zao is life]

No, it's the literal nature and details of the passage that tells us that. It's the carnal mind that often wants to spiritualize what is written to create something new, and different than what God has given.

The two prophets are killed in Jerusalem like Christ was, and will resurrect and even ascend into heaven as Jesus also did.

I agree that the carnal mind will accuse the one who does not believe his own doctrine or interpretation of something in the Revelation of having a carnal mind.

I don't know the identity of the two witnesses. I don't know whether they are two individuals, or not. I believe that it's highly probable that they will be two individual people. From what I can remember you believe that they are two churches because of the symbol of lampstands.

But I do believe that the inner court of the temple in Revelation 11:1-2 and the holy city is spiritually talking about saved Christians, and the outer court is metaphorical for unbelievers. The beast will make war against the saints and will overcome them. The beast is given authority to continue for 42 months. The beast kills the two witnesses.

The great city of Revelation 11:8 is contrasted with the holy city of Rev.11:1-2. It's the antithesis of it, just like Babylon the Great is contrasted with New Jerusalem in the Revelation. Babylon the Great is the antithesis of New Jerusalem.

So IMO whereas the city in Revelation 11:2 is spiritually referring to Mount Zion, the city of the saints, the city in Rev.11:8 could be referring to a literal city, because it's the antithesis of the holy city Revelation 11:2.

But I don't know the identity of the city of Revelation 11:8. It's a city spiritually called Sodom (fornication and depravity) and Egypt (captivity to sin, not redeemed) where Christ was crucified. That's all I know.

Back to the camp of the saints and the beloved city:

Amils of course will link the camp of the saints and beloved city to the holy city of Revelation 11:2, which IMO is just NOT true.

Amillennialism is a joke the way it forces Revelation 20:1-6 to comply with a man-made theology which turns a thousand years into thousands of years, and a devil that is bound into a devil that is actually not bound but only restricted, and saints beheaded for their refusal to worship the beast or his image or receive his mark or the number of his name (who are seen alive in their bodies - zao - again) into saints who lived from long before the beast even ascended from the abyss.

IMO the camp of the saints and the beloved city is the holy city, New Jerusalem, following the return of Christ, and IMO this is where almost all Premils make their mistake - placing the new heavens and new earth at a location in time one thousand years following the return of Christ.

Revelation 21:1 to Revelation 22:5 is a description of the blessed experience of those who rose from the dead when Christ returned - the bride of Christ, the wife of the Lamb.

The sea contains only the dead. Not the living. There is no more sea or curse for the living after Christ has returned. Both Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 contrast those in New Jerusalem with those outside.​

 

[ewq1938]

I agree that the carnal mind will accuse the one who does not believe his own doctrine or interpretation of something in the Revelation of having a carnal mind.

I don't know the identity of the two witnesses. I don't know whether they are two individuals, or not. I believe that it's highly probable that they will be two individual people. From what I can remember you believe that they are two churches because of the symbol of lampstands.​

It says the two witness are two candlesticks AND two olive trees. Those are not synonyms. So, the 2W are two churches and two individuals and those two individuals are the two prophets who are killed and resurrect. The fate of those who make up the two churches is not written. They might be the beheaded of Rev 20, full or in part or part of the future saints killed found in the 5th seal or they could survive the trib and be raptured as Paul spoke of.

But I do believe that the inner court of the temple in Revelation 11:1-2 and the holy city is spiritually talking about saved Christians, and the outer court is metaphorical for unbelievers. The beast will make war against the saints and will overcome them. The beast is given authority to continue for 42 months. The beast kills the two witnesses.​

He kills one half of the two witnesses, the two olive trees. We can only guess about the two candlesticks.

The sea contains only the dead.​

The dead are within the sea, the living are on top of it. Rev depicts both of these ideas but the new Earth will simply not have any seas which means no salt water oceans or seas etc. There is a river, but whether other rivers or lakes exist is unknown.

Not the living. There is no more sea or curse for the living after Christ has returned. Both Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 contrast those in New Jerusalem with those outside.​

Not right outside of the city though. Far away, having been cast into the LOF is also "outside the city". Judgment day for the unsaved does not take place on Earth so even the old Earth won't have any of the unsaved on it after the failed attack on Jerusalem and the LOF punishment of satan. On judgment day, all the unsaved are "outside" of Jerusalem, before NJ ever leaves heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

Methinks you have speculated and believed your own speculation. Revelation 11:8 calls that Jerusalem the city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified, and you call it the beloved city and the camp of the saints.

When Jesus is king in Jerusalem it is the camp of the saints and the beloved city.

When Satan is king in Jerusalem it is the place spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, still the same Jerusalem.

Amil are wrong because they want the Millennium to end on the earth, but they don't want the Millennium to start on the earth for some strange reason. They will constantly call the start of Revelation 20 spiritual, but not the end when Satan is released. That is the Amil inconsistency of interpretation.

Your interpretation is still wrong, because the Jerusalem at the end of the Millennium is the same Jerusalem David ruled from, not the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21.

Jesus must reign until this creation which began in Genesis 1:1 has been declared complete. Jesus does not reign in the New Jerusalem until after the Millennium.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree that the carnal mind will accuse the one who does not believe his own doctrine or interpretation of something in the Revelation of having a carnal mind.

I don't know the identity of the two witnesses. I don't know whether they are two individuals, or not. I believe that it's highly probable that they will be two individual people. From what I can remember you believe that they are two churches because of the symbol of lampstands.

But I do believe that the inner court of the temple in Revelation 11:1-2 and the holy city is spiritually talking about saved Christians, and the outer court is metaphorical for unbelievers. The beast will make war against the saints and will overcome them. The beast is given authority to continue for 42 months. The beast kills the two witnesses.

The great city of Revelation 11:8 is contrasted with the holy city of Rev.11:1-2. It's the antithesis of it, just like Babylon the Great is contrasted with New Jerusalem in the Revelation. Babylon the Great is the antithesis of New Jerusalem.

So IMO whereas the city in Revelation 11:2 is spiritually referring to Mount Zion, the city of the saints, the city in Rev.11:8 could be referring to a literal city, because it's the antithesis of the holy city Revelation 11:2.

But I don't know the identity of the city of Revelation 11:8. It's a city spiritually called Sodom (fornication and depravity) and Egypt (captivity to sin, not redeemed) where Christ was crucified. That's all I know.

Back to the camp of the saints and the beloved city:

Amils of course will link the camp of the saints and beloved city to the holy city of Revelation 11:2, which IMO is just NOT true.

Amillennialism is a joke the way it forces Revelation 20:1-6 to comply with a man-made theology which turns a thousand years into thousands of years, and a devil that is bound into a devil that is actually not bound but only restricted, and saints beheaded for their refusal to worship the beast or his image or receive his mark or the number of his name (who are seen alive in their bodies - zao - again) into saints who lived from long before the beast even ascended from the abyss.

IMO the camp of the saints and the beloved city is the holy city, New Jerusalem, following the return of Christ, and IMO this is where almost all Premils make their mistake - placing the new heavens and new earth at a location in time one thousand years following the return of Christ.

Revelation 21:1 to Revelation 22:5 is a description of the blessed experience of those who rose from the dead when Christ returned - the bride of Christ, the wife of the Lamb.

The sea contains only the dead. Not the living. There is no more sea or curse for the living after Christ has returned. Both Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 contrast those in New Jerusalem with those outside.​

Well this whole explanation is based on the Reformed/amil theology that the church has replaced Israel as Israel.

If Israel is restored at the Second Coming, their Jerusalem is not the New Jerusalem. You have replaced the church being on earth 1,000 years too early. You even call the church New Jerusalem to replace the restored physical Israel and their current physical Jerusalem.

The only difference between you and Amil is the placement of the Millennium.

 

[Zao is life]

When Jesus is king in Jerusalem it is the camp of the saints and the beloved city.

When Satan is king in Jerusalem it is the place spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, still the same Jerusalem.

The above makes no sense whatsoever. The New Testament negates it because the Mount Zion of Hebrews 12:22 is New Jerusalem, "the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem", and it's not referring to the Jerusalem you are referring to. It's also the holy city, the beloved city, the camp of the saints.

Your interpretation is still wrong, because the Jerusalem at the end of the Millennium is the same Jerusalem David ruled from, not the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21.

Jesus must reign until this creation which began in Genesis 1:1 has been declared complete. Jesus does not reign in the New Jerusalem until after the Millennium.

The city David ruled from in the new heavens and new earth could be the same city, made new - but the new heavens and earth and the millennium will commence at the same time, and the new heavens and earth is not a new creation and commences when Christ returns, as does the millennium.

Strongs Greek 02537 καινός kainós
of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness).

Strongs Greek 00342 ἀνακαίνωσις anakaínōsis
from 341 (anakainóō); renovation:--renewing.

Strongs Greek 00341 ἀνακαινόω anakainóō
from 303 and a derivative of 2537; to renovate:--renew.

EXAMPLES

"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing (anakaínōsis) of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God." (Romans 12:2).

"So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new (kainós) creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new (kainós)." (2 Corinthians 5:17).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength, nor uncircumcision, but a new (kainós) creation." (Galatians 6:15).

NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH

--- And I saw a new (kainós) heaven and a new (kainós) earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is.
And I, John, saw the holy city, New (kainós) Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband. --- Revelation 21:1-2

"And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make (poiéō) all things new (kainós). And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful" (Revelation 21:5).

The word poiéō (Strongs Greek 04160) does not mean to create. It means to do or perform something.

If you have been following this thread you will have seen the Biblical evidence already listed which places the NHNE at the same time as the commencement of the millennium.

 

[Zao is life]

Well this whole explanation is based on the Reformed/amil theology that the church has replaced Israel as Israel.

You don't know what you're talking about. The Israel that God elected when He called Abraham is still the same Israel that corporately became the Temple of God and included all nations after the death and resurrection of Christ, in accordance with God's first promise to Abraham.

If Israel is restored at the Second Coming, their Jerusalem is not the New Jerusalem.

You don't know what you're talking about. There is only one holy city in scripture. The Mount Zion of Hebrews 12:22. New Jerusalem.

The only way the camp of the saints and the beloved city seen at the close of the millennium a thousand years after the return of Christ can be the same city David ruled from is if the new heavens and new earth and the millennium commence at the same time and the Jerusalem David ruled from is made new.

You have replaced the church being on earth 1,000 years too early. You even call the church New Jerusalem to replace the restored physical Israel and their current physical Jerusalem.

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are written in Heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 and to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, those who refused him that spoke on earth, much more we shall not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from Heaven,
-- Hebrews 12

The only difference between you and Amil is the placement of the Millennium.

 

[Timtofly]

The above makes no sense whatsoever. The New Testament negates it because the Mount Zion of Hebrews 12:22 is New Jerusalem, "the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem", and it's not referring to the Jerusalem you are referring to. It's also the holy city, the beloved city, the camp of the saints.

The city David ruled from in the new heavens and new earth could be the same city, made new - but the new heavens and earth and the millennium will commence at the same time, and the new heavens and earth is not a new creation and commences when Christ returns, as does the millennium.

Strongs Greek 02537 καινός kainós
of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness).

Strongs Greek 00342 ἀνακαίνωσις anakaínōsis
from 341 (anakainóō); renovation:--renewing.

Strongs Greek 00341 ἀνακαινόω anakainóō
from 303 and a derivative of 2537; to renovate:--renew.

EXAMPLES

"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing (anakaínōsis) of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God." (Romans 12:2).

"So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new (kainós) creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new (kainós)." (2 Corinthians 5:17).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength, nor uncircumcision, but a new (kainós) creation." (Galatians 6:15).

NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH

--- And I saw a new (kainós) heaven and a new (kainós) earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is.
And I, John, saw the holy city, New (kainós) Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband. --- Revelation 21:1-2

"And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make (poiéō) all things new (kainós). And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful" (Revelation 21:5).

The word poiéō (Strongs Greek 04160) does not mean to create. It means to do or perform something.

If you have been following this thread you will have seen the Biblical evidence already listed which places the NHNE at the same time as the commencement of the millennium.

They are currently in Paradise. That is the heavenly country, and mount Zion is a mountain, not a city.

If you are going to accept the throne and presence of God is a heavenly city called heavenly Jerusalem, that has been there since Genesis. It is not the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21.

 

[ewq1938]

The above makes no sense whatsoever. The New Testament negates it because the Mount Zion of Hebrews 12:22 is New Jerusalem, "the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem", and it's not referring to the Jerusalem you are referring to. It's also the holy city, the beloved city, the camp of the saints.

What you quoted doesn't say Mt Zion is the city. It's a mountain made of dirt and rocks and is not Jerusalem. The mountain is on Earth, next to current Jerusalem.

 

[ewq1938]

There is only one holy city in scripture. The Mount Zion of Hebrews 12:22. New Jerusalem.

No that's wrong, there are two both Jerusalems of now and the past and NJ of the future.

Neh 11:18 All the Levites in the holy city were two hundred fourscore and four.

Isa_48:2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name.

Dan_9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Mat_4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Mat_27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[Timtofly]

The only way the camp of the saints and the beloved city seen at the close of the millennium a thousand years after the return of Christ can be the same city David ruled from is if the new heavens and new earth and the millennium commence at the same time and the Jerusalem David ruled from is made new.

There is a new heaven and new earth without sin and death, and carnal humans.

But that is not Revelation 21. Revelation 21 is after Jesus hands back to God current creation.

Current Jerusalem is not 1200 miles high, nor covers a 1200 square mile footprint. Current Jerusalem is restored, but not the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven.

David did not reign in the heavenly Jerusalem. He reigned over the Jerusalem that currently sits in the ME. So will Jesus for a thousand years.

 

[Zao is life]

What you quoted doesn't say Mt Zion is the city. It's a mountain made of dirt and rocks and is not Jerusalem. The mountain is on Earth, next to current Jerusalem.

Biblical references conveniently absent every time you say this.

So I can also say, "it's a mountain on Mars". Same process used by yourself to come the such a conclusion.

The prophets of God always use Mount Zion as a symbolic reference to Jerusalem.

"And the LORD will create over all the site of Mount Zion, and on her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night; for on all the glory shall be a defense." Isa.4:5

"Behold, I and the children whom the LORD has given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, who dwells in Mount Zion." Isa.8:18

Isaiah 4
3 And it shall be, he who is left in Zion, and he who remains in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even everyone who is written among the living in Jerusalem;
4 when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from its midst by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Mount Zion is synonymous with Jerusalem throughout scripture.

Mount Zion in Hebrews 12:22 is not referring to a literal mountain. It's metaphorical for the congregation of all the elect of God throughout the world and in heaven, a.k.a the camp of the saints and the beloved city. The only way this refers to a camp in Israel at or "next to" or anywhere near Jerusalem is if Jerusalem has been made new again in the new heavens and new earth.

New Jerusalem.​

 

[Zao is life]

No that's wrong, there are two both Jerusalems of now and the past and NJ of the future.

Neh 11:18 All the Levites in the holy city were two hundred fourscore and four.

Isa_48:2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name.

Dan_9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Mat_4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Mat_27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The holy city has always been made up of the elect of God, as all your Old Testament quotes show. The last time the city once ruled by David is called the holy city in scripture is in Matthew 4:5. Those who rose from the dead in Mat.27:53 did not go into Jerusalem that had been the city of David. There is no record in all Christian, Jewish or Roman history of anyone seeing resurrected people. Nor does the Bible talk again about them, because they went into the only city the Revelation calls the holy city - New Jerusalem.

Your opinion regarding the identity of the camp of the saints and the beloved city of Revelation 20:9 is sheer conjecture on your part. You have provided no biblical support for it. What you give above is not biblical support. It proves only that in Old Testament times Jerusalem once ruled by David was the holy city.

We have been living in New Testament|New Covenant times for the last 2,000 years, and the city metaphorically called Hagar is not the holy city because she has been in bondage with her children ever since Jesus died and rose again from the dead.

You need to produce scripture instead of mere conjecture - not scriptures that prove that the city of God's Old Testament elect was Jerusalem once ruled by David, but scriptures that prove that the beloved city and camp of the saints is in Israel.

The only way this is possible is if Jerusalem once ruled by David has been made new by Christ in the new heavens and new earth.​

 

[Zao is life]

There is a new heaven and new earth without sin and death, and carnal humans.

But that is not Revelation 21. Revelation 21 is after Jesus hands back to God current creation.

Current Jerusalem is not 1200 miles high, nor covers a 1200 square mile footprint. Current Jerusalem is restored, but not the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven.

David did not reign in the heavenly Jerusalem. He reigned over the Jerusalem that currently sits in the ME. So will Jesus for a thousand years.

Jesus will reign forever and ever. After a thousand years in the new heavens and new earth He will hand the Kingdom to God the Father and God will be all in all.

 

[Earburner]

Biblical references conveniently absent every time you say this.

So I can also say, "it's a mountain on Mars". Same process used by yourself to come the such a conclusion.

The prophets of God always use Mount Zion as a symbolic reference to Jerusalem.

"And the LORD will create over all the site of Mount Zion, and on her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night; for on all the glory shall be a defense." Isa.4:5

"Behold, I and the children whom the LORD has given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, who dwells in Mount Zion." Isa.8:18

Isaiah 4
3 And it shall be, he who is left in Zion, and he who remains in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even everyone who is written among the living in Jerusalem;
4 when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from its midst by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Mount Zion is synonymous with Jerusalem throughout scripture.

Mount Zion in Hebrews 12:22 is not referring to a literal mountain. It's metaphorical for the congregation of all the elect of God throughout the world and in heaven, a.k.a the camp of the saints and the beloved city. The only way this refers to a camp in Israel at or "next to" or anywhere near Jerusalem is if Jerusalem has been made new again in the new heavens and new earth.

New Jerusalem.​

"Mt. Zion" is Heavenly Jerusalem.
"The daughter of Zion" is earthly Jerusalem.

Most all of church-ianity**, has not discerned the difference between the two prophetic "mothers" described in Gal. 4:19-31.
One "is FREE", and the other "is FALLEN".

That should point you to a specific scripture in Rev. 17:5, of which by the teaching of the Holy Spirit (oil) within you, shall certainly clear up all the errors that are proposed by "church-ianity"**, as to which "mother" is fallen (cast out).

**Note: The foolish virgins. Mat. 25:1-12

1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[ewq1938]

The holy city has always been made up of the elect of God, as all your Old Testament quotes show. The last time the city once ruled by David is called the holy city in scripture is in Matthew 4:5.​

No, it's found in Rev 11 also. You were wrong that only one city was called the Holy city. Old Jerusalem and NJ are both called holy, old Jerusalem being called that many more times in scripture despite the failings of the people who lived there.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus will reign forever and ever. After a thousand years in the new heavens and new earth He will hand the Kingdom to God the Father and God will be all in all.

Jesus hands back creation when it can no longer be seen. You have a second NHNE after the first thousand years.

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

Your NHNE fled away after the thousand years. Your NHNE cannot be what is found in the next chapter.

Revelation 20:11 is what Paul is referring to in 1 Corinthians 15:24.

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

The end is the GWT Judgment.

Amil deny a future 1,000 year rule on earth.

You deny it is the same creation until the end.

You have a third creation that only exists for a thousand years.

Jesus has ruled since Genesis 1 and will continue to rule in the next creation. Why bring up that point? The eternal reign of Jesus does not prove your point.

The fact is that both Paul and John have current creation ending at the GWT Judgment. That is when Jesus hands back current creation to God.

 

[Zao is life]

That should point you to a specific scripture in Rev. 17:5, of which by the teaching of the Holy Spirit (oil) within you, shall certainly clear up all the errors that are proposed by "church-ianity"**, as to which "mother" is fallen (cast out).

**Note: The foolish virgins. Mat. 25:1-12

1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So anyone who disagrees with you does not have the Holy Spirit. But you do.

Matthew 23
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

But because you have exalted yourself, your abasement will only come when you realize that what you said was from your own imagination a lot of the time, and not from the Holy Spirit, who you implied is not capable of teaching whoever disagrees with your imagined interpretations of scripture.

Sorry but I'm not interested in what anyone has to say when they prove their own self-exaltation by implying that whoever disagrees with them is one of the 5 foolish virgins and is not guided by the Holy Spirit.

A harlot has to be from God's elect. Jerusalem of old is the city of the non-elect who reject Christ, though it has elect of God in it. You're equating a past harlot with a future one. And your self-exaltation has blinded you.​

 

[Zao is life]

No, it's found in Rev 11 also. You were wrong that only one city was called the Holy city. Old Jerusalem and NJ are both called holy, old Jerusalem being called that many more times in scripture despite the failings of the people who lived there.

What does "holy" mean? It means set apart unto God, consecrated to God. The Jerusalem which exists now in Israel is in bondage with her children - in bondage to the law of Moses - and is not part of the Mount Zion of Hebrews 12:22-24.

It's is not holy. The Revelation of Jesus Christ does not refer to it as the holy city. It is not currently the camp of the saints, and it is not the beloved city.

In the new heavens and new earth there will no more be two "Zions", but one.

There is no thousand years before the new heavens and new earth. Believing that the new heavens and new earth follows the millennium negates too many other scriptures in both Old Testament prophecy as well as in New Testament prophecy.

Ignoring that those who came out of great tribulation when Christ returned who are written about in Revelation 7 are the same bride of Christ mentioned in Revelation 19 who are with Christ when He returns, and the same bride of Christ mentioned in Revelation 21, where the same promises to them are repeated that were first made in Revelation 7, is just one example,

and this is without even comparing Isaiah 65 and other parts of Old Testament prophecy, which only confirms it.

Ignoring those biblical facts is to make ourselves as guilty as Amillennialists are of ignoring the scriptures which speak directly about Satan's activities in the world, and the warning to the saints to be weary of his wiles because we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, and ignoring the fact that those who were beheaded for refusal to worship the beast are seen alive in their bodies (zao) in the first resurrection of the body (anastasis) and this could not have taken place before the beast even ascended from out of the abyss, etc.​

 

[ewq1938]

It's is not holy. The Revelation of Jesus Christ does not refer to it as the holy city.​

It does in Rev 11. Jerusalem is called a holy city many times in scripture. Once holy, it is holy to God no matter what temporary things take place in the city.

 

[Zao is life]

It does in Rev 11. Jerusalem is called a holy city many times in scripture. Once holy, it is holy to God no matter what temporary things take place in the city.

Here's something else almost all Premillennialists fail to notice or refuse to see:

TIMES JESUS HIMSELF IS QUOTED SPEAKING TO HIS ASSEMBLIES AND HIS SAINTS IN HIS REVELATION​

INTRODUCING HIMSELF:

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches." (Revelation 1:8, 11, 17-20).

THE FIRST SEVEN MESSAGES ALL END WITH:

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes ..

--- FOLLOWING THIS THERE IS A SERIES OF VISIONS INCLUDING VISIONS REGARDING THE TIME OF THE END, WHERE JESUS DOES NO TALKING ---

THEN:​

=======================================================​

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air.

And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, ---​

It is done! ​

Revelation 16:15-17

=======================================================​

THEN:

And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me,​

It is done. ​

I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:5-8

THEN:

Revelation 22
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let him who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the water of life freely. Rev.22:7, 12-17.​

==========================================​

Jesus is telling us that he will make all things new when He comes, after He has destroyed the beast and false prophet.

Both Premillennialists and Amillennialists have the commencement of the thousand years in the wrong location in time.​