The Soul.

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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no, Jesus says God is able to destroy the soul.
that doesn't mean God necessarily destroys all souls, and Jesus specifically points out that physical death ((what men can do to you)) does not accomplish the destruction of the soul. only God can do this -- but does He? certainly not upon mere physical death; see Luke 20:38 e.g.

What it's speaking about at Matthew 10:28 is that humans can kill you yes, but that death is temporary which means that when humans kill you you're in non-existence temporarily. If you have been faithful to God then he promises that you will be resurrected back into existence as a living person and that resurrection is a certainty. Only God can destroy a person out of existence forever. What that means is that if a human kills a person and that person has been unfaithful to God when those humans kill that unfaithful person God is the one who judges whether that person gets a resurrection back into existence as a living person. Only God can make such judgements not man. When it comes to those that God has judged as unrighteous and not deserving of a resurrection they will remain in non-existence for eternity. Satan his demons and all those among humanity that sides with him have never been promised eternal life which means God has never promised that they will exist forever. Only those that God judges as worthy of eternal life will exist forever.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Wow that false argument I thought died the painful death it deserves.

YOu show your ignorance of Gods word. god did not "form" the animals from the dust- He spoke them into existence! Reread Genesis 1 without the Watchtower blinders and learn what God says for a change!

Your last sentnece in paragraph one is opinion that has no validity in gods Word.

And then your spiritualizing of Pauls blessing is pathetic, but it doesn't surprise me. He was simply praying that God would bless all the church in body, soul and spirit.

1Th 5:23


And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Redefining the word of god to promote false doctrine is a very grave offense Barney![/QUOTE\]

You said that God did not "form" the animals from the dust- He spoke them into existence. Tell me then how is it that animals have the same breath of life or spirit as man does. The scriptures at Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19 shows that both animals and humans have the same breath of life or spirit. Now the scriptures show us that God breathe into the nostrils of the man the breath of life(spirit). So since the scriptures show us that man and animals have the same breath of life or spirit, you think that just because God doesn't go into detail how he created the animals that they're not living souls like humans are living souls. God took dust from the ground and formed that dust into many different flesh and blood animals bodies then he blew the breath of life(spirit) into those flesh and blood animal bodies and they became living souls, the animals received the same breath of life as man did, scripture proves this. Just because God doesn't go into detail how he created the animals doesn't mean he didn't take dust from the ground and formed them into many different flesh and blood animal bodies and then blew the breath of life or spirit into those flesh and blood animals bodies, because that's how they became living souls.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I'm not going to disagree with Genesis 2:7 which teaches us that God took dust from the ground


Yes YHWH God is the God of the living. This is because when it comes to the faithful, God has promised them they will exist as living persons again by a resurrection of the dead. God will remember them and resurrect them back into existence as living persons. They being resurrected back as living persons is a certainty, it can't fail. Therefore all those who were faithful to God is in God's memory he remembers them, so to him they are still living. Luke 20:38

YOu obviously do not pay attention to what I wrote. I agree God formed man out of the dust of the ground. YOu also said He formed the animals from the dust and that is incorrect.

Your second paragraph has ripped the words of Jesus completely from their meaning! Jesus was not even hinting at that Watchtower lie! He said that though Abraham was dead, He also is still alive.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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YOu obviously do not pay attention to what I wrote. I agree God formed man out of the dust of the ground. YOu also said He formed the animals from the dust and that is incorrect.

Your second paragraph has ripped the words of Jesus completely from their meaning! Jesus was not even hinting at that Watchtower lie! He said that though Abraham was dead, He also is still alive.

No i don't agree with what you wrote, I don't agree that what you wrote is in agreement with Scripture. God did create the animals from the dust of the ground. Animals have the same breath of life((spirit) as humans do. Just as a human beings are living souls animals are living souls. One of things that continues to imprison people to falsehood concerning the scriptures is that they deny what Genesis 2:7 teaches, which is, that if that breath of life or spirit isn't combined with a flesh and blood human body then that living soul or living person doesn't exist.
 

post

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I'm not going to disagree with Genesis 2:7 which teaches us that God took dust from the ground


Yes YHWH God is the God of the living. This is because when it comes to the faithful, God has promised them they will exist as living persons again by a resurrection of the dead. God will remember them and resurrect them back into existence as living persons. They being resurrected back as living persons is a certainty, it can't fail. Therefore all those who were faithful to God is in God's memory he remembers them, so to him they are still living. Luke 20:38

It doesn't happen to say 'God of those who will later live again' but of 'the living' - present tense.
That is exactly His point in context.
 

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What it's speaking about at Matthew 10:28 is that humans can kill you yes, but that death is temporary which means that when humans kill you you're in non-existence temporarily. If you have been faithful to God then he promises that you will be resurrected back into existence as a living person and that resurrection is a certainty. Only God can destroy a person out of existence forever. What that means is that if a human kills a person and that person has been unfaithful to God when those humans kill that unfaithful person God is the one who judges whether that person gets a resurrection back into existence as a living person. Only God can make such judgements not man. When it comes to those that God has judged as unrighteous and not deserving of a resurrection they will remain in non-existence for eternity. Satan his demons and all those among humanity that sides with him have never been promised eternal life which means God has never promised that they will exist forever. Only those that God judges as worthy of eternal life will exist forever.

Jesus Christ God incarnate makes a firm and clear distinction between the death of the body and the cessation of the soul.

we believe Him or we don't.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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It doesn't happen to say 'God of those who will later live again' but of 'the living' - present tense.
That is exactly His point in context.

What I understand is those who interpret the scriptures as you do have always agree with the serpent that there is no death. You think that living persons or a living person doesn't end when that person/persons dies. But from the time that Adam sinned against God living persons die the life of that living person ends. They stop being living persons when they die. I'm not going to deny that a living person doesn't end when they die, you want to continue believing a person continues living when they die and believe there is no death so be it.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Jesus Christ God incarnate makes a firm and clear distinction between the death of the body and the cessation of the soul.

we believe Him or we don't.

A flesh and blood human being is a soul. This what scripture teaches us and that you are denying. The scripture doesn't teach we have souls it teaches we are souls.
 

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What I understand is those who interpret the scriptures as you do have always agree with the serpent that there is no death.

That's ridiculous.

Where have I said any such thing?
 

Davy

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Jesus has shared the following information about the soul:

What distinguishes animal-man from animal-brute?



Where do souls come from? The soul of each man?


Who is God?


Why did God give man a soul?


When does one receive their soul?


What is a soul?


Where is our soul?


What does a soul in Grace possess?


What is it that removes Grace?


The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I-V

Nah, God's Word says differently on those things.

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 reveals our 'spirit' goes back to God at flesh death, but our flesh goes back to the earthly elements where it came from.

In Matthew 10:28, Jesus showed our soul continues on to God, that man cannot kill it. That means our spirit & soul are together, and can be separated from our flesh.

In 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4, Peter showed at Christ's resurrection He went and preached The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", i.e., those who had died in their sins prior to Christ's death and resurrection. Peter said The Gospel was preached to the 'dead' so they could be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. That reveals our spirit contains our soul with it, and is NOT just some animate force that returns to God.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul revealed the resurrection body type is a "spiritual body". That is pointing directly to our 'spirit' that separates from our flesh at flesh death per Eccl.12. On Jesus' cross, He told the malefactor crucified with Him that he would be with Him in the heavenly Paradise that day.

All that proves continued AWARENESS with our spirit-soul AFTER death of our flesh body.

The false 'sleep in the ground' theory is from an old JEW'S tradition from misunderstanding OT verses like Genesis 2:7 with thinking our 'soul' is made of flesh matter.
 

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A flesh and blood human being is a soul. This what scripture teaches us and that you are denying. The scripture doesn't teach we have souls it teaches we are souls.

The scripture does teach that we are souls, however if you think that you no longer are a soul when your body dies (i.e. cessation of existence on physical death) then you are saying men have power to destroy the soul - in direct contradiction to Christ.

So, clearly you misinterpret Genesis because your position puts you at odds with God.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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The scripture does teach that we are souls, however if you think that you no longer are a soul when your body dies (i.e. cessation of existence on physical death) then you are saying men have power to destroy the soul - in direct contradiction to Christ.

So, clearly you misinterpret Genesis because your position puts you at odds with God.

Genesis 2:7 is clear biblical proof we are souls, not that we have souls.
Genesis 2:7 is teaching us that God took dust from the ground formed it into a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person.
Anyone who teaches that it's, the breath of life or spirit that is a living soul or living person is contradicting Genesis 2:7. This scripture shows that the combination of the breath of life(spirit) in a flesh and blood human body is what is, a living soul or living person. So anyone saying the breath of life(spirit) separately, on it's own without a flesh and blood human body is a living soul or living person contradicts Genesis 2:7. As I said Genesis 2:7 is clear biblical proof that humans are souls. Genesis2:7 doesn't teach we have souls or were given souls.
 
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Genesis 2:7 is clear biblical proof we are souls, not that we have souls.
Genesis 2:7 is teaching us that God took dust from the ground formed it into a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person.
Anyone who teaches that it's, the breath of life or spirit that is a living soul or living person is contradicting Genesis 2:7. This scripture shows that the combination of the breath of life(spirit) in a flesh and blood human body is what is, a living soul or living person. So anyone saying the breath of life(spirit) separately, on it's own without a flesh and blood human body is a living soul or living person contradicts Genesis 2:7. As I said Genesis 2:7 is clear biblical proof that humans are souls. Genesis2:7 doesn't teach we have souls or were given souls.

I think you had a reading comprehension problem with my post.

Yes, we are souls.
We have bodies.

If the soul is annihilated upon physical death then men can indeed destroy a soul, making Christ is a liar.
 

Ronald Nolette

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No i don't agree with what you wrote, I don't agree that what you wrote is in agreement with Scripture. God did create the animals from the dust of the ground. Animals have the same breath of life((spirit) as humans do. Just as a human beings are living souls animals are living souls. One of things that continues to imprison people to falsehood concerning the scriptures is that they deny what Genesis 2:7 teaches, which is, that if that breath of life or spirit isn't combined with a flesh and blood human body then that living soul or living person doesn't exist.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The bible says you are a liar!

And if you are going to use Gen. 2:19:

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.,

Remember these facts:

1. God created all the animals before He formed man.
2. He placed Adam in the Garden
3. then formed one of every kind so Adam could name them. He had already created them and they were already roaming the earth when god did Gen. 2:19

You are free to believe anything you wish, but when you sapout Watchtower lies and call it Scripture- I am going to chase you down and name the lie for what it is.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I think you had a reading comprehension problem with my post.

Yes, we are souls.
We have bodies.

If the soul is annihilated upon physical death then men can indeed destroy a soul, making Christ is a liar.

The word soul also has the definition of life, in scripture. Death for humans is they stop existing as living souls or living persons. Matthew 10: 28 is talking about men can kill you, they can take your life from you yes, and because death is nonexistence as a living person, that death will be a temporary death, as a living person. Only God can judge a person to eternal death which means, eternal nonexistence as a living person. Bauer's Greek- English Lexington of the New Testament, revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker, 1979, page 95 gives this meaning "eternal death" with reference to the Greek phrase in Matthew 10:28 translated, "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." So being in Gehenna refers to utter destruction from which no resurrection is possible. Man can take your life from you yes but they can't take it from you permanently. Only God had destroy a living person out of existence permanently or for eternity.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The bible says you are a liar!

And if you are going to use Gen. 2:19:

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.,

Remember these facts:

1. God created all the animals before He formed man.
2. He placed Adam in the Garden
3. then formed one of every kind so Adam could name them. He had already created them and they were already roaming the earth when god did Gen. 2:19

You are free to believe anything you wish, but when you sapout Watchtower lies and call it Scripture- I am going to chase you down and name the lie for what it is.

Yes a person is free to believe whatever a person wishes. I'm not going to ignore Genesis 7:22 and Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 which shows that the animals have the same breath of life(spirit) that humans do and come from the same dust as humans do.
 

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Death for humans is they stop existing as living souls

then men kill souls by killing fleshly bodies, which is not what Jesus says. Jesus says exactly the opposite.

should i believe Him?

read it again:

fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul