The Soul.

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Post said,
then men kill souls by killing fleshly bodies, which is not what Jesus says. Jesus says exactly the opposite.

should i believe Him?

read it again:

fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul [/Quote\]

I said that the Bauer's Greek- English Lexington of the New Testament, revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker, 1979, page 95 gives this meaning "eternal death" with reference to the Greek phrase at Matthew 10:28 translated, "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." This phrase is talking about eternal death. There's a difference between death and eternal death. The death we all experience because of sin even if we're killed by other humans, is a temporary death, which means you temporarily stop existing as a living person. The word soul at Matthew10:28 means life, not some invisible person inside the human body. So Matthew 10:28 is telling us not to fear those who can destroy you temporarily as a living person, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. This means God can destroy a human out of existence as a living person for eternity, this is the person to fear. A person will not will get a resurrection that suffers the fires of Gehenna. While those who receive death by men killing them will exist again as living persons in the resurrection.

I think most people have a problem with what I say concerning Matthew 10:28 because most people who say they believe in death don't actually believe in death, because most people say a person goes on living in another form at death. So because they don't believe death means a person stops existing as a living person, but instead they believe humans continue living in some spirit form they don't actually believe in death. Genesis 2:7 shows us that if that breath of life(spirit) is not in that flesh and blood human body then that living soul or living person doesn't exist. It's not the breath of life(spirit) separate from the flesh and blood human body that is the living soul or living person. So anyone trying to teach that the soul at Matthew 10:28 is some spiritual living person inside a human body is contradicting Genesis 2:7. Scripture doesn't contradict another Scripture. Genesisc2:7 is how God made the first human a living person. This scripture isn't going to change for anybody and anyone trying to use another scripture to contradict Genesis 2:7 are the ones who will always be incorrect. We flesh and blood human beings are souls we don't have souls.

 

[post]

Post said,
then men kill souls by killing fleshly bodies, which is not what Jesus says. Jesus says exactly the opposite.

should i believe Him?

read it again:

fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul [/Quote\]

I said that the Bauer's Greek- English Lexington of the New Testament, revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker, 1979, page 95 gives this meaning "eternal death" with reference to the Greek phrase at Matthew 10:28 translated, "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." This phrase is talking about eternal death. There's a difference between death and eternal death. The death we all experience because of sin even if we're killed by other humans, is a temporary death, which means you temporarily stop existing as a living person. The word soul at Matthew10:28 means life, not some invisible person inside the human body. So Matthew 10:28 is telling us not to fear those who can destroy you temporarily as a living person, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. This means God can destroy a human out of existence as a living person for eternity, this is the person to fear. A person will not will get a resurrection that suffers the fires of Gehenna. While those who receive death by men killing them will exist again as living persons in the resurrection.

I think most people have a problem with what I say concerning Matthew 10:28 because most people who say they believe in death don't actually believe in death, because most people say a person goes on living in another form at death. So because they don't believe death means a person stops existing as a living person, but instead they believe humans continue living in some spirit form they don't actually believe in death. Genesis 2:7 shows us that if that breath of life(spirit) is not in that flesh and blood human body then that living soul or living person doesn't exist. It's not the breath of life(spirit) separate from the flesh and blood human body that is the living soul or living person. So anyone trying to teach that the soul at Matthew 10:28 is some spiritual living person inside a human body is contradicting Genesis 2:7. Scripture doesn't contradict another Scripture. Genesisc2:7 is how God made the first human a living person. This scripture isn't going to change for anybody and anyone trying to use another scripture to contradict Genesis 2:7 are the ones who will always be incorrect. We flesh and blood human beings are souls we don't have souls.

If souls cease to exist when the physical body dies then souls are destroyed by the separation of the spirit from the flesh.
Therefore anyone who can kill a physical body is destroying a soul.

That is a direct contradiction of what Christ says.

 

[post]

If people cease to exist then they are not resurrected.
Instead a new copy of a person is created and fooled into believing it is the original person who no longer exists.

The very term 'resurrection' implies continuation of existence.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If souls cease to exist when the physical body dies then souls are destroyed by the separation of the spirit from the flesh.
Therefore anyone who can kill a physical body is destroying a soul.

That is a direct contradiction of what Christ says.

I believe God. I don't believe God to be a liar. What God is saying to us at Genesis 2:7 is very clear, post. You keep wanting to ignore that scripture because you don't want to believe what it clearly teaches us. No scripture is going to contradict Genesis 2:7, this includes Matthew 10:28, but by the way you choose to reason on Matthew 10:28 you are contradicting Genesis 2:7. Genesis 2:7 is saying that God took dust from the ground formed it into a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. You see how this flesh and blood human body became a living soul. This scripture isn't saying the breath of life(spirit) is the living soul or living person, its the flesh and blood human body that's is the living soul or living person, so whenever anyone reasons on any other scripture speaking about soul and reasons on that scripture excluding the flesh and blood body being that living soul or living person, they're always going to be incorrect, this includes Matthew 10:28. You can't reason in any way regarding Matthew 10:28 that a soul or living soul is something inside the human body because the human body is a soul. That being the case the word soul at Matthew 10:28 means life. Men can kill the body, but they cannot kill the person for all time, inasmuch as he lives in God’s purpose (Luke 20:37, 38) and God can and will restore such faithful one to life as a living soul or living person by means of a resurrection. For God’s servants, the loss of their “soul,” or life as a living person, is only temporary, not permanent.(Revelation 12:11)

God “can destroy both soul [psykhen] and body in Gehenna.” This shows that the greek word psykhe does not refer to something immortal or indestructible. There is, in fact, not one case in the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek, in which the Hebrew word nephesh or Greek word psykhe are modified by terms such as immortal, indestructible, imperishable, deathless, or the like.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The word soul also has the definition of life, in scripture. Death for humans is they stop existing as living souls or living persons. Matthew 10: 28 is talking about men can kill you, they can take your life from you yes, and because death is nonexistence as a living person, that death will be a temporary death, as a living person. Only God can judge a person to eternal death which means, eternal nonexistence as a living person. Bauer's Greek- English Lexington of the New Testament, revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker, 1979, page 95 gives this meaning "eternal death" with reference to the Greek phrase in Matthew 10:28 translated, "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." So being in Gehenna refers to utter destruction from which no resurrection is possible. Man can take your life from you yes but they can't take it from you permanently. Only God had destroy a living person out of existence permanently or for eternity.

In the OT it did. The hebrew was not as explicit as the Greek. In the Hebrew life/soul is nephesh.

However in the greek soul is pseuche, s[pirit is pneuma, and body is soma and life is zoe! So sorry you are wrong as far as the NT is concerned.

Gehenna is not the final resting place of the lost. Their place is the lake of fire! and before the lost are cast there, the bible is very clear, God thorws both death and teh grave and destroys them in the lake of fire. That is called the second death.

And you ignore this passage:

Rev. 20:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Verse 13 death and the grave gave up the dead that were in them. Sorry yo have been lied to again!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes a person is free to believe whatever a person wishes. I'm not going to ignore Genesis 7:22 and Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 which shows that the animals have the same breath of life(spirit) that humans do and come from the same dust as humans do.

And ignore Genesis 1, to redefine what Gensis 2 was about .
So you believe that man is equal to animals then? We are no special than a hyena?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

In the OT it did. The hebrew was not as explicit as the Greek. In the Hebrew life/soul is nephesh.

However in the greek soul is pseuche, s[pirit is pneuma, and body is soma and life is zoe! So sorry you are wrong as far as the NT is concerned.

Gehenna is not the final resting place of the lost. Their place is the lake of fire! and before the lost are cast there, the bible is very clear, God thorws both death and teh grave and destroys them in the lake of fire. That is called the second death

And you ignore this passage:

Rev. 20:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Verse 13 death and the grave gave up the dead that were in them. Sorry yo have been lied to again!

The Greek word pneuma(spirit) comes from the Greek word pneo, meaning "breathe or blow," and the Hebrew word ruach(spirit)comes from a root having the same meaning. Ruach and pneuma then, basically mean "breath" but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. Ruach and pneuma can also be translated as, wind; the vital force in living creatures; one's spirit; spirit persons, including angels; and God's active force, or holy spirit. Also the Hebrew word nephesh and greek word psykhe mean soul. As the scriptures show the word soul refers to flesh and blood humans and animals, and it also refers to the life that a flesh and blood human or animal has, this is true with both the Hebrew word nephesh and Greek word psykhe, they both refer to flesh and blood humans and animals and the life of these flesh and blood humans and animals. This helps us understand that the word soul can be translated life like in the context of a scripture such as at Matthew 10:28. The context of this scripture shows that the word soul=nephesh & psykhe is talking about a persons life.

So when the Hebrew language began to be translated into Greek the Hebrew word nephesh was translated with the Greek word psykhe, so the Hebrew word nephesh and the Greek word psykhe, both have the definition soul, which refers to "people, animals or the life that person or animal has." The Hebrew word ruach was translated into the Greek word pneuma, both rauch and pneuma mean breath or spirit.
So Genesis 2:7 is saying that God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body, then blew the breath of life(spirit=ruach; pneuma) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul(nephesh, psykhe) or living person. So Genesis 2:7 in the Hebrew language was explicitly stating that it is flesh and blood humans that are souls not that flesh and blood humans have souls. So it remains true that if the breath of life(spirit=ruach; pneuma) isn't in a flesh and blood human body then that living soul=nephesh; psykhe, ceases to exist. Matthew 10:28 in no way changes that.

Concerning Gehenna, Jesus used Gehenna as representing complete destruction resulting from judgment by God, so no resurrection to life as a living soul or living person being possible. What that means is that Gehenna isn't a literal place but the Greek word Revenue represents a condition, a condition of complete destruction. Meaning this destruction is a complete destruction out of existence as a living soul or living person for eternity. (Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:4, 5) So anyone who is in this condition of being completely destroyed out of existence for eternity, will not be getting a resurrection back to life as a living person.

Revelation 20:10-15 is talking about the day of judgment, that day of judgment is 1000 years long, and its also called the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. During this thousand year reign of Jesus christ there will be resurrections of the dead as Revelation 20:13 shows us.

 

[post]

I believe God. I don't believe God to be a liar. What God is saying to us at Genesis 2:7 is very clear, post. You keep wanting to ignore that scripture because you don't want to believe what it clearly teaches us. No scripture is going to contradict Genesis 2:7, this includes Matthew 10:28, but by the way you choose to reason on Matthew 10:28 you are contradicting Genesis 2:7. Genesis 2:7 is saying that God took dust from the ground formed it into a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. You see how this flesh and blood human body became a living soul. This scripture isn't saying the breath of life(spirit) is the living soul or living person, its the flesh and blood human body that's is the living soul or living person, so whenever anyone reasons on any other scripture speaking about soul and reasons on that scripture excluding the flesh and blood body being that living soul or living person, they're always going to be incorrect, this includes Matthew 10:28. You can't reason in any way regarding Matthew 10:28 that a soul or living soul is something inside the human body because the human body is a soul. That being the case the word soul at Matthew 10:28 means life. Men can kill the body, but they cannot kill the person for all time, inasmuch as he lives in God’s purpose (Luke 20:37, 38) and God can and will restore such faithful one to life as a living soul or living person by means of a resurrection. For God’s servants, the loss of their “soul,” or life as a living person, is only temporary, not permanent.(Revelation 12:11)

God “can destroy both soul [psykhen] and body in Gehenna.” This shows that the greek word psykhe does not refer to something immortal or indestructible. There is, in fact, not one case in the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek, in which the Hebrew word nephesh or Greek word psykhe are modified by terms such as immortal, indestructible, imperishable, deathless, or the like.

Genesis 2:7 does not say that flesh + spirit = soul.
only your private interpretation, which is in direct conflict with the rest of scripture, says that - which private interpretation you were taught and dutifully repeat by means of an heretical cult.

Jesus Christ, God enfleshed, says the separation of the spirit from the body does not cause the soul to cease to exist.
He is, He was, He is yet to come.
God did not cease to exist when He laid down His life on the cross.

you are incorrect.

i do admire your steadfastness in your error,
but zeal without knowledge is more than useless - it is damaging.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

And ignore Genesis 1, to redefine what Gensis 2 was about .
So you believe that man is equal to animals then? We are no special than a hyena?

When it comes to humans and animals they're both living souls, they both have the same spirit, so when it comes to death just as animals die humans die. When animals die they stop.existing as living souls or living animals. When humans die they stop existing as living souls or living persons.
God made mankind in his image, not the animals, and God promised a resurrection back to life as a living soul or living person to those he has judged worthy of a resurrection. Animals will get no resurrection.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Genesis 2:7 does not say that flesh + spirit = soul.
only your private interpretation, which is in direct conflict with the rest of scripture, says that - which private interpretation you were taught and dutifully repeat by means of an heretical cult.

Jesus Christ, God enfleshed, says the separation of the spirit from the body does not cause the soul to cease to exist.
He is, He was, He is yet to come.
God did not cease to exist when He laid down His life on the cross.

you are incorrect.

i do admire your steadfastness in your error,
but zeal without knowledge is more than useless - it is damaging.

You said Genesis 2:7 does not say that flesh + spirit = soul. well Genesis 2:7 says that God formed a flesh and blood human body from the dust of the ground and then blew into that flesh and blood human body, the breath of life(spirit) and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul, or living person. You can deny that humans have spirit all you want, but Genesis 2:7 shows its the combination of God forming a flesh and blood human body and blowing the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body is how that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person.
The Scriptures show that in ‘blowing into Adam the breath of life’ God gave the formed body both life force or, spirit and the breath or breathing needed to sustain life.
At Genesis 7: 21, 22 ASV it says regarding both men and animals, "And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died." This scripture shows that there is the same spirit in both animals and humans. Same is shown in the New King James Version, New American Standard Bible, NASB 1995, NASB 1977, Amplified Bible, Christian standard Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible,

The Hebrew word that is often translated “spirit” is ruahh. It can convey a number of distinct meanings, depending on how it is used and on the context.The Hebrew word ruahh is used at Genesis 2:7
In some cases ruahh denotes an invisible movement of air and so can be translated “wind.” (Exodus 10:13; Zechariah 2:6) Also, the word can be used for a “spirit” person, an invisible being such as an angel, or even for God. (1 King 22:21, 22) And ruahh can designate God’s invisible active force (holy spirit), as at Psalm 104:30, which mentions the “spirit,” or active force, that Jehovah God employs in creating.

However, Psalm 104:29 illustrates another meaning of ruahh, which is, life force. We read: “If you [God] take away their spirit(ruahh), they expire, and back to their dust they go.” As this and many other texts show, both humans and animals have an impersonal life force, or spirit, that is present in every living body cell. The Bible shows that without this vitalizing spirit a human or an animal is dead.(Ecclesiastes 3:19; 9:10; Psalm 146:4)

Humans and animals have that spirit of life, or life force. Both animals and humans have to eat drink and rest to sustain that spirit of life or life force.
More immediately vital, both animals and humans need to take in oxygen, to breathe, for if you stopped breathing for just a few minutes you would die. Actually, breathing is the prime visible evidence that a person is alive or has the spirit of life in him. Thus the Bible closely connects, or even puts in parallel, “breath” (Hebrew, neshamah) and “spirit” (ruahh). Genesis 7:22, for instance, says about the men and the animals that died in the Flood: “Everything in which the breath [neshamah] of the force or, spirit,ruahh) of life was active in its nostrils . . . died.”(Compare Isaiah 42:5; Job 27:3-5)

So, what happened when God created Adam?

First Jehovah made a human body. But it was lifeless or dead. What did it need to become alive and to be a living soul? A simple blast of air or breath into the dead lungs would not be enough, no more than if we tried artificial breathing into the lungs of a long-dead corpse. For that newly created body to be and continue alive, both the spark or spirit of life and breathing were needed.

Consequently, when Genesis 2:7 says that Jehovah blew into the body “the breath of life” indicates, in that case, more than just breath or air moving into lungs. It was the “breath of life.” Yes, at the same time God provided Adam with the “spirit” or spark of life and the breath needed to keep him alive.

What happens, though, when a person dies? He stops breathing as a result. Soon the spark of life, or life force, in his cells ceases. He is then beyond the help of artificial respiration. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says: “The dust [of his body] returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.”
It is not a matter of an invisible immortal soul or anything else literally going out of the body, traveling to heaven and being received by God. It simply means that if that dead person is ever to live again, this will be up to God. Jehovah is the One who can remember and resurrect him, forming a body for him and putting the spirit of life in it.

(You said, Jesus Christ, God enfleshed, says the separation of the spirit from the body does not cause the soul to cease to exist.
He is, He was, He is yet to come.
God did not cease to exist when He laid down His life on the cross.)

First of all, you're the one who believes Jesus Christ to be God, I believe him to be as the scriptures say he is, the Christ, the son of the living God.
I agree that God can't cease to exist, but Jesus Christ is not God. When he sacrificed his life he stopped existing as a living person, for parts of three days, then the Father and God of Jesus resurrected him back into existence as a living person.
Because you don't believe death is nonexistence as a living person, you believe that every person from the time of Adam is still exists as a living person, which means you don't really believe in death but like the pagans you believe death is just a doorway to another plain of existence, and a person continues to live in that different plain of existence. Seems to me you agree with the serpent that says there is no death.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Greek word pneuma(spirit) comes from the Greek word pneo, meaning "breathe or blow," and the Hebrew word ruach(spirit)comes from a root having the same meaning. Ruach and pneuma then, basically mean "breath" but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. Ruach and pneuma can also be translated as, wind; the vital force in living creatures; one's spirit; spirit persons, including angels; and God's active force, or holy spirit. Also the Hebrew word nephesh and greek word psykhe mean soul. As the scriptures show the word soul refers to flesh and blood humans and animals, and it also refers to the life that a flesh and blood human or animal has, this is true with both the Hebrew word nephesh and Greek word psykhe, they both refer to flesh and blood humans and animals and the life of these flesh and blood humans and animals. This helps us understand that the word soul can be translated life like in the context of a scripture such as at Matthew 10:28. The context of this scripture shows that the word soul=nephesh & psykhe is talking about a persons life.

So when the Hebrew language began to be translated into Greek the Hebrew word nephesh was translated with the Greek word psykhe, so the Hebrew word nephesh and the Greek word psykhe, both have the definition soul, which refers to "people, animals or the life that person or animal has." The Hebrew word ruach was translated into the Greek word pneuma, both rauch and pneuma mean breath or spirit.
So Genesis 2:7 is saying that God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body, then blew the breath of life(spirit=ruach; pneuma) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul(nephesh, psykhe) or living person. So Genesis 2:7 in the Hebrew language was explicitly stating that it is flesh and blood humans that are souls not that flesh and blood humans have souls. So it remains true that if the breath of life(spirit=ruach; pneuma) isn't in a flesh and blood human body then that living soul=nephesh; psykhe, ceases to exist. Matthew 10:28 in no way changes that.

Concerning Gehenna, Jesus used Gehenna as representing complete destruction resulting from judgment by God, so no resurrection to life as a living soul or living person being possible. What that means is that Gehenna isn't a literal place but the Greek word Revenue represents a condition, a condition of complete destruction. Meaning this destruction is a complete destruction out of existence as a living soul or living person for eternity. (Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:4, 5) So anyone who is in this condition of being completely destroyed out of existence for eternity, will not be getting a resurrection back to life as a living person.

Revelation 20:10-15 is talking about the day of judgment, that day of judgment is 1000 years long, and its also called the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. During this thousand year reign of Jesus christ there will be resurrections of the dead as Revelation 20:13 shows us.

So because God is pneuma- to you He is just a breath or puff of wind then. Okay!

and concerning Gehenna Jesus also referred to the place of lostness as outer darkness:

Matthew 8:12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:50
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Now go and do a real bible study and learn that Jesus said their wailing and gnashing of teeth is a continual thing and not just a quick response to being toasted and then poof- nothing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When it comes to humans and animals they're both living souls, they both have the same spirit, so when it comes to death just as animals die humans die. When animals die they stop.existing as living souls or living animals. When humans die they stop existing as living souls or living persons.
God made mankind in his image, not the animals, and God promised a resurrection back to life as a living soul or living person to those he has judged worthy of a resurrection. Animals will get no resurrection.

Yes only mankind will haVE THEOR BODY BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.

bUT THE FACT WE LIVE ON HAS BEEN SHOWN TO YOU IN SEVERAL OTHER THREADS FROM THE WORD OF GOD.

YOu just pick and choose which verses you will believe and which you won't!

Like this one:

2 Corinthians 5:6-9
King James Version

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.


I know the Watchtower redefines the tenses of the verbs to promote thier lie, but Paul whom you say is inspired to write these passagfes, said to be absent (present tense) from the body is to be present )present tense) with the Lord!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Ronald Nope the said, "So because God is pneuma- to you He is just a breath or puff of wind then. Okay![/QOUTE\]

I think it's very interesting that you say that I said the only way the Greek word pneuma is translated or the only way that the Greek word is used is wind and because of that you're saying that I believe God is just breath or puff of wind. It shows how much you will twist what I texted.
I didn't say God was a breath or puff of wind, and I don't believe that, I was simply telling you that the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma, which are often translated “spirit,” have a number of other meanings, and that all of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used or translated to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force(spirit) in humans and animals , (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way,(his dominant mental inclination)(4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons(Angels or God) and (6) God’s active force, or holy spirit.(Exodus 35:21; Psalm 104:29; Matthew 12:43; Luke 11:13)

Concerning Gehenna, it's the Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom, south and southwest of ancient Jerusalem. (Jeremiah 7:31) It was prophetically spoken of as a place where dead bodies would be strewn. (Jeremiah 7:32; 19:6) But there is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Instead Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction or annihilation.(Revelation 20:14; Matthew 5:22; 10:28)

So the lake of fire is a symbol of eternal destruction. It is the same as Gehenna, but it is different from hell, which is the common grave of mankind. The first kind of death mentioned in the Bible resulted from Adam’s sin. This death can be reversed by resurrection and will eventually be eliminated by God.(1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 26)

The Lake of fire represents a state of total inactivity, it is different in that the Bible says nothing about a resurrection from the second death. For example, the Bible says that Jesus has “the keys of hell and of death,” showing that he has the authority to release people from the death brought by Adam’s sin. (Revelation 1:18; 20:13, However, neither Jesus nor anyone else has a key to the lake of fire. That symbolic lake represents eternal punishment in the form of permanent destruction.(2 Thessalonians 1:9)

Gehenna is mentioned 12 times in the Bible. Like the lake of fire, it is a symbol of eternal destruction. Although some translations render this word as “hell,” Gehenna is different from hell (Hebrew sheol, Greek haides)

The word “Gehenna” literally means “Valley of Hinnom,” referring to a valley just outside Jerusalem. In Bible times, the city residents used this valley as a garbage dump. They kept a fire constantly burning there to destroy refuse; maggots consumed anything that the fire did not reach.

Jesus used Gehenna as a symbol of everlasting destruction. (Matthew 23:33) He said that in Gehenna “the maggot does not die and the fire is not put out.” (Mark 9:47, 48) He thus alluded to the conditions in the Valley of Hinnom and also to the prophecy at Isaiah 66:24, which says: “They will go out and look on the carcasses of the men who rebelled against me; for the worms on them will not die, and their fire will not be extinguished.” Jesus’ illustration describes, not torture, but complete annihilation. The worms and fire consume carcasses, or dead bodies, not living people.

The Bible gives no indication of any resurrection from Gehenna. “The lake of fire” and “the fiery Gehenna” both represent permanent, everlasting destruction.(Revelation 20:14, 15; 21:8; Matthew 18:9)

Ronald Nolette said,
Now go and do a real bible study and learn that Jesus said their wailing and gnashing of teeth is a continual thing and not just a quick response to being toasted and then poof- nothing.[/QUOTE\]

The lake of fire is a symbol of destruction, so why does the Bible say that in it the Devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet “will be tormented day and night forever and ever”? (Revelation 20:10) The word used for “torment” in the Bible can also mean “a condition of restraint.” For example, the Greek word for “tormentors” used at Matthew 18:34 is translated as “jailers” in many translations, showing the connection between the words “torment” and “restraint.” Likewise, the parallel accounts at Matthew 8:29 and Luke 8:30, 31 equate “torment” with “the abyss,” a figurative place of complete inactivity or death. (Romans 10:7; Revelation 20:1, 3) In fact, several times the book of Revelation uses the word “torment” in a symbolic sense.(Revelation 9:5; 11:10; 18:7, 10)

Consider four reasons why this torment does not refer to literal torture:

1. For the Devil to be tortured eternally, he would have to be kept alive forever. But the Bible says that he will be brought to nothing, or put out of existence.(Hebrews 2:14)
   
   
2. In order for Satan his demons and all those who side with him, to experience literal pain, they would have to be kept alive, but everlasting life or eternal life is a gift from God, not a punishment from God.(Romans 6:23)
   
   
3. The wild beast and the false prophet are symbols and cannot experience literal torture.
   
   
4. The context of the Bible indicates that the torment of the Devil is everlasting restraint or destruction.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Yes only mankind will haVE THEOR BODY BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.

bUT THE FACT WE LIVE ON HAS BEEN SHOWN TO YOU IN SEVERAL OTHER THREADS FROM THE WORD OF GOD.

YOu just pick and choose which verses you will believe and which you won't!

Like this one:

2 Corinthians 5:6-9
King James Version

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.


I know the Watchtower redefines the tenses of the verbs to promote thier lie, but Paul whom you say is inspired to write these passagfes, said to be absent (present tense) from the body is to be present )present tense) with the Lord!

The Catechism of the Catholic church says: “To rise with Christ, we must die with Christ: we must ‘be away from the body and at home with the Lord’. [2 Corinthians 5:8] In that ‘departure’ which is death the soul is separated from the body. [Philippians 1:23] It will be reunited with the body on the day of resurrection of the dead.” But in the texts here quoted, does the apostle Paul say that the soul survives the death of the body and then awaits the “Last Judgment” to be reunited with the same body?

At 2 Corinthians 5:1, Paul refers to his death and speaks of an “earthly house” that is “dissolved.” Was he thinking of the body deserted by its immortal soul? No. Paul believed that man is a soul, not that he has a soul. (Genesis 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:45) Paul was a spirit-anointed Christian whose hope, like that of his first-century brothers, was ‘reserved in the heavens.’ (Colossians 1:5; Romans 8:14-18) His ‘earnest desire,’ therefore, was to be resurrected to heaven as an immortal spirit creature at God’s appointed time. (2 Corinthians 5:2-4) Speaking of this hope, he wrote: "Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed."
(1 Corinthians 15:51, 52)

At 2 Corinthians 5:8, Paul says: “We are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord.” Some believe that these words refer to an intermediate state of waiting. Such ones refer also to Jesus’ promise to his faithful followers that he was going to prepare a place in which to ‘receive them home to himself.’ But when would such prospects be realized? Christ said that it would be when he ‘came again’ in his future presence. (John 14:1-3) Similarly, at 2 Corinthians 5:1-10, Paul said that the hope common to anointed Christians was to inherit a heavenly dwelling. This would come about, not through some presumed immortality of the soul, but through a resurrection during Christ’s presence. (1 Corinthians 15:23, 42-44) Exegete Charles Masson concludes that 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 “can be well understood then without having to resort to the hypothesis of an ‘intermediate state.’”

At Philippians 1:21, 23, Paul says: “In my case to live is Christ, and to die, gain. I am under pressure from these two things; but what I do desire is the releasing and the being with Christ, for this, to be sure, is far better.” Does Paul here refer to an “intermediate state”? Some think so. However, Paul says that he was put under pressure by two possibilities—life or death. “But what I do desire,” he added, mentioning a third possibility, “is the releasing and the being with Christ.” A “releasing” to be with Christ immediately after death? Well, as already seen, Paul believed that faithful anointed Christians would be resurrected during the second presence of Christ. Therefore, he must have had in mind the events of that period.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Catechism of the Catholic church says: “To rise with Christ, we must die with Christ: we must ‘be away from the body and at home with the Lord’. [2 Corinthians 5:8] In that ‘departure’ which is death the soul is separated from the body. [Philippians 1:23] It will be reunited with the body on the day of resurrection of the dead.” But in the texts here quoted, does the apostle Paul say that the soul survives the death of the body and then awaits the “Last Judgment” to be reunited with the same body?

At 2 Corinthians 5:1, Paul refers to his death and speaks of an “earthly house” that is “dissolved.” Was he thinking of the body deserted by its immortal soul? No. Paul believed that man is a soul, not that he has a soul. (Genesis 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:45) Paul was a spirit-anointed Christian whose hope, like that of his first-century brothers, was ‘reserved in the heavens.’ (Colossians 1:5; Romans 8:14-18) His ‘earnest desire,’ therefore, was to be resurrected to heaven as an immortal spirit creature at God’s appointed time. (2 Corinthians 5:2-4) Speaking of this hope, he wrote: "Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed."
(1 Corinthians 15:51, 52)

At 2 Corinthians 5:8, Paul says: “We are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord.” Some believe that these words refer to an intermediate state of waiting. Such ones refer also to Jesus’ promise to his faithful followers that he was going to prepare a place in which to ‘receive them home to himself.’ But when would such prospects be realized? Christ said that it would be when he ‘came again’ in his future presence. (John 14:1-3) Similarly, at 2 Corinthians 5:1-10, Paul said that the hope common to anointed Christians was to inherit a heavenly dwelling. This would come about, not through some presumed immortality of the soul, but through a resurrection during Christ’s presence. (1 Corinthians 15:23, 42-44) Exegete Charles Masson concludes that 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 “can be well understood then without having to resort to the hypothesis of an ‘intermediate state.’”

At Philippians 1:21, 23, Paul says: “In my case to live is Christ, and to die, gain. I am under pressure from these two things; but what I do desire is the releasing and the being with Christ, for this, to be sure, is far better.” Does Paul here refer to an “intermediate state”? Some think so. However, Paul says that he was put under pressure by two possibilities—life or death. “But what I do desire,” he added, mentioning a third possibility, “is the releasing and the being with Christ.” A “releasing” to be with Christ immediately after death? Well, as already seen, Paul believed that faithful anointed Christians would be resurrected during the second presence of Christ. Therefore, he must have had in mind the events of that period.

YOu will find out how much you have been lied to by the Watchtower- to your dismay.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

YOu will find out how much you have been lied to by the Watchtower- to your dismay.

I understand you believe what you said here, but I'm convinced that if you don't listen to the scriptures, which you're not, even though you think you are, you will be the one in dismay.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I understand you believe what you said here, but I'm convinced that if you don't listen to the scriptures, which you're not, even though you think you are, you will be the one in dismay.

Well both of us will find out in the end won't we.

But if I am wrong- according to the Watchtower I either will cease to exist for all eternity or will be rfesurrected and get a second chance.

But if you are wrong by following Watchtower doctrine- you will be wailing and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire for all eternity. this I would spare you.

But we shall see who is listening to Scripture and who is listening to a man made organization.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Well both of us will find out in the end won't we.

But if I am wrong- according to the Watchtower I either will cease to exist for all eternity or will be rfesurrected and get a second chance.

But if you are wrong by following Watchtower doctrine- you will be wailing and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire for all eternity. this I would spare you.

But we shall see who is listening to Scripture and who is listening to a man made organization.

If you get a resurrection it'll be because you had a change of heart and believe what God has been saying all along regarding scriptures like Genesis 2:7, that man doesn't have a soul, but is a soul.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you get a resurrection it'll be because you had a change of heart and believe what God has been saying all along regarding scriptures like Genesis 2:7, that man doesn't have a soul, but is a soul.

Already do! but I will have my bpody rejoin myh soul and spirit because I am trusting in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus alone for the full payment of my sin debt before God. That has made me born again and granted eternal life from which I shall never perish.

t is something no one can earn, maintain or add to.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Already do! but I will have my bpody rejoin myh soul and spirit because I am trusting in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus alone for the full payment of my sin debt before God. That has made me born again and granted eternal life from which I shall never perish.

t is something no one can earn, maintain or add to.

You're saying that you have a soul, the scriptures say humans are souls. So your body won't rejoin your soul. In the resurrection a human being will be recreated a human body which is a soul.