The state of the church

[Episkopos]

...is basically the same as the world...both going down in a downward spiral.

Is the answer more of man inspired evangelism we see so much of? Who brings more furniture into a burning building? Or perhaps we think the fire will be put out from the wind as Jesus spits the church out of His mouth????

Who is looking at the bigger picture?

 

[neophyte]

Jesus will always protect "His Church"only [ meaning only His Church which contains His Apostolic Doctrinal Teachings ]His Words can be found in [ Matt. 16: 15-19 ] Jesus will always keep His promise to protect His Church from any Teaching error, so far so good, not one doctrine has ever been omitted or changed in the past two thosand years.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus will always protect "His Church"only [ meaning only His Church which contains His Apostolic Doctrinal Teachings ]His Words can be found in [ Matt. 16: 15-19 ] Jesus will always keep His promise to protect His Church from any Teaching error, so far so good, not one doctrine has ever been omitted or changed in the past two thosand years.

Agreed!!!! But there is much error in the churches that claim the name of Christ. The Lord IS concerned enough for these to give them a warning to repent.

So first the true gospel of the kingdom must be able to be identified as genuine BY THOSE OUTSIDE the church. Then this gospel of the kingdom can be preached in all the world before the end comes!!

 

[neophyte]

Episkopos in your opinion what is the 'true gospel ' ?

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos in your opinion what is the 'true gospel ' ?

The gospel of the kingdom is about being born of the Spirit and walking as bond slaves of Christ according to the Spirit. It is about ownership by Christ and obedience to the law of God through the grace of Jesus Christ which is by faith.

 

[Couppy]

Episkopos,

God cannot spit His Church out of His mouth and He will never allow the situation to get to a stage where he has to do so. He can spit individual Christians who become lukewarm out. His Church is the Body of Christ and has nothing to do with Church buildings or denominations. His Church has being washed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Couppy

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos,

God cannot spit His Church out of His mouth and He will never allow the situation to get to a stage where he has to do so. He can spit individual Christians who become lukewarm out. His Church is the Body of Christ and has nothing to do with Church buildings or denominations. His Church has being washed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Couppy

Tell it to Jesus! It is His church to spue out or not.

We can come out of Babylon and seek the Lord face to face. So there is a real alternative to the sunday churchianity thing.

 

[neophyte]

Stop and think for a moment, ask yourselves; why would God take such action, since He said He would always protect it from a total apostasy. { Matt. 16:15-19 ] and please take note , Jesus was speaking about His Church that existed then , { Matt 18: 15-18 ] in that verse you can see that it is a "defined church", visible ; Jesus said His Church would be "the light of the world". He then noted that " a city set on a hill cannot be hid " [ Matt. 5:14 ] This means that His Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches.
Jesus promised , " I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it " [ Matt. 16:18 ] This means that His Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from Him. His Church [ His Church alone ] will survive until His return. His Church alone has survived for the past two-thousand years while others have come and gone, or have been spliting into splinters , and it seems every time one splits away it becomes more watered-down while moving further away from the true gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

The "all welcome" sign that is written on the religious corporations have done their job well. The church is filled with every kind of natural and carnal character. The gates of the kingdom have truly suffered a violent assault. Whatever we cannot sort out here...Jesus will in a short time.

The devil has sought to flood the church with the world...but may the Lord twart this plan by evangelizing the church...

Once the true gospel of the kingdom is recognized as the truth by the world...then it can be spread throughout the world in one final bid before the end comes.

 

[Brother James]

Consider Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-43. Jesus teaches another parable beginning with "The kingdom of God is like...". In this parable, the servants asked the king if they should pluck out the weeds that an enemy had sown to sabbotage his field of wheat. He told then no, let them grow. Pulling them up might disturb the roots of the wheat. The harvesters will sort it out later.

At the end of the age not only will all who do evil be weeded out, but also all that causes sin. We are not called to be sin sniffers, looking for weeds to cast out. We are to cultivate and let God sort it out.

We are only responsible for our own hearts. I need to look inward and see if I really walk by faith and not by sight. Do I love as Jesus said I should love? If not, I need to get my own spiritual house in order. If every one of us in Christ's church looks inward as Jesus taught, the church will not be an issue. The Holy Ghost will take care of that part of it.

 

[neophyte]

What is wrong with the state of the Church ?

Nothing is wrong with Christ's Apostolic /Catholic Church for it is protected by Jesus [ Matt.16; 15-19 ] but your man-made churches, well, that is a different story, None of them are protected by Jesus so , yes, those churches are in a poor state of affairs, being that they are all man-made and not approved by Jesus . Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus give His Authority to any future mere man or woman to form any other church different from His Apostolic Church [ Eph. 2: 19-20 ]

 

[Foreigner]

What is wrong with the state of the Church ?

Nothing is wrong with Christ's Apostolic /Catholic Church for it is protected by Jesus [ Matt.16; 15-19 ]

-- There are thousands of molested children, scores of defrocked and arrested priests, bishops and cardinals who have been found guilty of cover ups, and millions of dollars in lawsuits that say you are wrong.

 

[Episkopos]

What is wrong with the state of the Church ?

Nothing is wrong with Christ's Apostolic /Catholic Church for it is protected by Jesus [ Matt.16; 15-19 ] but your man-made churches, well, that is a different story, None of them are protected by Jesus so , yes, those churches are in a poor state of affairs, being that they are all man-made and not approved by Jesus . Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus give His Authority to any future mere man or woman to form any other church different from His Apostolic Church [ Eph. 2: 19-20 ]

The true apostolic church is not represented by any man made institution on earth. No group owns the truth or the Holy Spirit. The RC empire will come crashing down with all the other institutions after the saints have been harvested from them all.

 

[neophyte]

The true apostolic church is not represented by any man made institution on earth. No group owns the truth or the Holy Spirit. The RC empire will come crashing down with all the other institutions after the saints have been harvested from them all.

Jesus wasn't talking to Himself, He was talking to St. Peter { Matt. 16: 15-19 ]and not to any non-Catholic pastor, nor was He lying and He never made a mistake.The only Church that can trace it's lineage directly back to Jesus and His Teaching Apostles is only the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus wasn't talking to Himself, He was talking to St. Peter { Matt. 16: 15-19 ]and not to any non-Catholic pastor, nor was He lying and He never made a mistake.The only Church that can trace it's lineage directly back to Jesus and His Teaching Apostles is only the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Peter was not a Catholic as you suggest....neither was Jesus. These men were Jews who practiced the Jewish religion. The Jews can trace their lineage back to Abraham. But God can raise children of Abraham from the stones. How much more can He raise up a new generation of saints that are untainted "virgins" that are undefiled from the religion of men.

 

[Foreigner]

Peter was not a Catholic as you suggest....neither was Jesus. These men were Jews who practiced the Jewish religion. The Jews can trace their lineage back to Abraham. But God can raise children of Abraham from the stones. How much more can He raise up a new generation of saints that are untainted "virgins" that are undefiled from the religion of men.

-- And Paul preached the Gospel, not as a Christian or a Catholic, but as a Jew. He preached the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy through Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

This Catholic revisionism is presented to the "masses" by a propaganda ministry to capture the souls of the simple.

 

[HammerStone]

I could write pages on this, but I'll stick with some shorter statements.

#1 The church - the true church which is not monopolized by any one institution or denomination, is the BRIDE of Christ. Watch out how you talk about God's woman. The church itself is not in disarray, but the people and phonies are. (Episkopos, please don't take that as a direct comment/accusation/whatever, because I know it's not what you meant.)

#2 The Bible talks repeatedly about the bride, and then talks about a Jezebel or prostitute. Do with that what you will, but I think a lot of what we see is not the bride, but the prostitute.

#3 I think the people of the church have failed in complacency. We've tried to fight battles politically and morally, and we've abandoned the ramparts of Jesus for a watered-down gospel of comfort in a fallen and broken world.

 

[Episkopos]

I could write pages on this, but I'll stick with some shorter statements.

#1 The church - the true church which is not monopolized by any one institution or denomination, is the BRIDE of Christ. Watch out how you talk about God's woman. The church itself is not in disarray, but the people and phonies are. (Episkopos, please don't take that as a direct comment/accusation/whatever, because I know it's not what you meant.)

#2 The Bible talks repeatedly about the bride, and then talks about a Jezebel or prostitute. Do with that what you will, but I think a lot of what we see is not the bride, but the prostitute.

#3 I think the people of the church have failed in complacency. We've tried to fight battles politically and morally, and we've abandoned the ramparts of Jesus for a watered-down gospel of comfort in a fallen and broken world.

Amen!!! But there is hope!!! When we are at our worst there is only place to look...up! Thank God for His great mercy and patience. We can begin by asking...Is it I Lord? Humility comes before honour.

We can see plainly the true bride in that the claims are small but the fruit is great. The corollary to this is great claims and empty boasts.

The truth is very great and usually missed by a superficial grasp of what we think we need to "get saved" ourselves. But this desire to save oneself itself goes contrary to the way of Christ. We are called to live sacrificially for others. We are called to give up ownership of ourselves in order to serve the living God. He knows the way. He justifies men. He prepares us to live with Him in glory. How can we settle for less than such a great salvation?

 

[neophyte]

Why can't you show me from the Bible or even outside the Bible where Jesus gave His Authority to anybody but His Apostles to form a Church different from His. How about some Bible verses to show the Authority and power as he gave his apostles , i can readily produce Bible verses in support of this from Jesus to His Apostles . Documentation please, Bible or otherwise..