The "sudden destruction" from which unbelievers "will not escape" on the day of the Lord will be caused by fire coming down on the earth.

[Spiritual Israelite]

>>>>>""Why are you so frustrated?
Because Scripture does not support the no sense nonsense of Spir Is so he jumps up & down, holds his breath then calls people fools

Speaking of nonsense. Why are you just ignoring my arguments? Do you deny that Paul references Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:10-12? Did you read what it says in Isaiah 45:22-24? Or are you just closed-minded with no ability to address any challenges made to your false doctrine?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

??????? """Paul was referring to both believers and unbelievers in Romans 14:10-12""
Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 << Judgement Seat of Christ - Paul
..If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved
Where do those verses teach an UNsaved believer appears at the Paul - Judgement Seat of Christ ?

I've already shown you multiple times, but you are AFRAID to actually address what I've shown you. I'll try one more time.

Romans 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Can you see in verse 11 that Paul references an Old Testament prophecy? This is the prophecy that he referenced there...

Isaiah 45:22 “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.
24 He shall say, ‘Surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.

Can you see here that even those "who are incensed against Him" will bow before Christ and "shall be ashamed"? That's a clear reference to unbelievers. So, this shows that unbelievers will also be bowing before Christ and giving an account of themselves before His judgment seat. If you want to be taken seriously, then address this.

 

[rvmb]

I've already shown you multiple times, but you are AFRAID to actually address what I've shown you. I'll try one more time.

Romans 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Can you see in verse 11 that Paul references an Old Testament prophecy? This is the prophecy that he referenced there...

Isaiah 45:22 “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.
24 He shall say, ‘Surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.

Can you see here that even those "who are incensed against Him" will bow before Christ and "shall be ashamed"? That's a clear reference to unbelievers. So, this shows that unbelievers will also be bowing before Christ and giving an account of themselves before His judgment seat. If you want to be taken seriously, then address this.

>>>>""I've already shown you multiple times,
>>>>"""Paul was referring to both believers and unbelievers in Romans 14:10-12""
***
List where PAUL is ALSO referring to the UNbelievers in :-
Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 << Judgement Seat of Christ - Paul

 

[rvmb]

Speaking of nonsense. Why are you just ignoring my arguments? Do you deny that Paul references Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:10-12? Did you read what it says in Isaiah 45:22-24? Or are you just closed-minded with no ability to address any challenges made to your false doctrine?

Did Paul write Isaiah ? NO
Did I ask for Isaiah ? NO
Did I ask for ONLY Paul ? YES
Try again SiSi
You claim >>>>"""Paul was referring to both believers and unbelievers in Romans 14:10-12""
***
Show where PAUL is ALSO referring to the UNbelievers in :-
Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 << Judgement Seat of Christ - Paul

 

[rvmb]

I already did that. You are the clown here. Did you purposely ignore how I showed that Paul referenced Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:10-12? Do you somehow not understand that all people, including the unsaved will be bowing down to Christ and confessing that He is Lord? Isaiah 45:22-24 includes those who are incensed against Him as doing that, as I showed you. Only a clown would just ignore the scripture that shows unbelievers standing before the judgment seat of Christ and bowing to Him and confessing that He is Lord.

>>>>""I already did that. You are the clown here
This 'clown' understands English
**
Did Paul write Isaiah ? NO
Did I ask for Isaiah ? NO
Did I ask for ONLY Paul ? YES
Try again SiSi
You claim >>>>"""Paul was referring to both believers and unbelievers in Romans 14:10-12""
***
Show where PAUL is ALSO referring to the UNbelievers in :-
Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 << Judgement Seat of Christ - Paul

 

[Earburner]

There is no difference. I am showing that unbelievers will be standing before the judgment seat of Christ, but you are too blinded by your false doctrine to see it. Matthew 25:31-46 clearly portrays both believers and unbelievers standing before Christ for judgment. You are denying the obvious here.

Absolutely not!! Unbelievers are never shown to be involved with the Judgment Seat of Christ. They refuse to come to Him, as shown in John 3:18; 2 Thes. 1:7-9; Luke 17:28-30; Mat. 13:30. Rev. 9:21.

You are ignorantly confusing the two figurative, spiritual judgments, of which each generate a separate spiritual culmination (climax), but neither are a physical manifestation of a "judging" process.
1. The Judgment Seat of Christ is now, during this present figurative period of 1000 years .
2. The Great White Throne Judgment is upon the 24 hour Day of Jesus' Glorious return from Heaven.
(Again, neither event of a "judging" process take place physically, but rather spiritually/figuratively, in order to generate an outcome/conclusion).

So then,
1. For all faithful born again Christians, WHO HAVE come to Christ, they ARE Eternally saved.
2. For all those that do NOT willing "appear" before Christ  during their lifetime, and refuse to do so, their judgment is total destruction for eternity, without explanation. Aka the GWTJ.

Spiritually, Jesus explained it THOROUGHLY in John 3:18.

STOP making a religious quagmire out of it!!

 

[Zao is life]

Paul and Peter both wrote about mass destruction occurring at the coming of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Paul did not specify the scope of the "sudden destruction" that he wrote about here, but did indicate that it would be such that those in spiritual darkness "shall not escape". Peter, however, did specify the scope of the destruction and made it clear that it will be global and come upon the entire earth.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Both Paul and Peter indicate that it's important for us to "not sleep, as others do" (those who are in spiritual darkness), but we need to instead "watch and be sober" by way of "putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation" and we need to be the kind of people who take part "in holy conduct and godliness" while we are "looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God".

So, Paul and Peter are clearly referring to the same event in these passages and both warn believers to be careful about making sure to be the kind of people who are in the spiritual light instead of the darkness. Why do they warn their readers about that? Because they don't want any of their readers to experience the "sudden destruction" by fire that will come upon the earth from which those in spiritual darkness "shall not escape".

I have seen some Premils try to claim that the fiery destruction of the heavens, elements and the earth doesn't occur until 1,000+ years after Christ returns. But, if that was the case, why did Peter tell his readers "since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God"? It would make no sense for him to say that if the fiery destruction he described couldn't possibly occur in the lifetimes of his readers, which would be the case if it occurred 1,000+ years after Christ returns. It only makes sense that he, like Paul, was encouraging his readers to be ready for the day of the Lord so that they would not be among those who will experience "sudden destruction" by fire that none in spiritual darkness will escape. As Paul said, we (believers) are not appointed to God's wrath, so both Paul and Peter encouraged believers to stay strong in the faith so that if Jesus comes in our lifetimes, we will be ready and not face His wrath of "sudden destruction" by fire upon the earth on the day He comes "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess 1:7-8). Instead, we will be changed to put on bodily immortality (1 Cor 15:50-54) and will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:14-17) on that day.

Some Premils understand that what I'm saying in this post is true in terms of the things described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 being fulfilled when Christ returns. But, instead of acknowledging that the fiery destruction Peter describes is the same as the "sudden destruction" that Paul mentions in relation to the day of the Lord, they spiritualize the passage instead and claim that it's not talking about literal fire physically burning up the earth. But, in order to be consistent, they should believe that the "sudden destruction" that Paul references in relation to the day of the Lord is not literal, physical destruction as well, but they don't. They somehow make the destruction that Peter describes in relation to the day of the Lord different than the "sudden destruction" that Paul references in relation to the day of the Lord, which makes no sense.

What Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:10-12 lines up with what Jesus taught in Matthew 24:35-39 where He said that heaven and earth will pass away unexpectedly with no one knowing the day or hour that will occur while proceeding to point out that all unbelievers were killed by the flood in Noah's day and then saying "so also will the coming of the Son of Man be". So, 2 Peter 3:10-12 lines up perfectly with Matthew 24:35-39 with both describing Jesus coming unexpectedly while bringing destruction upon the heavens and the earth, causing them to "pass away" in favor of the new heavens and new earth that Peter said we are looking for in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:13). With that being the case, it's no wonder that Paul said unbelievers "shall not escape" the "sudden destruction" that will occur on the day Christ comes as a thief in the night. They can't escape fire coming down upon the entire earth.

IMO your OP is taking two different subjects and combining them into one.

1. Subject:

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)

2. Subject:

--- And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (Revelation 20:9) ---

IMO it's not watertight to place Revelation 20:9 with the others.

Why?

Because

* In Jesus's message to the Laodicean church He promises those among them who overcome that He will "grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Revelation 3:21).

* In chapter 4 the twenty-four elders are clothed in white raiment & have crowns [stephanos] of gold on their heads (Revelation 4:4).

* In chapter 15, those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God (Revelation 15:2).

* In chapter 20, those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen seated on thrones, and they are alive [zao], and reigning with Christ for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6), where John is told that this is the first resurrection of the body [anastasis].

Besides this, everything that is written about the binding of Satan has to be forced by faith into a time preceding the return of Christ. - in denial of a number of verses of New Testament scripture saying things to the contrary, and changing of the meaning of others in order to create "support" for a "bound Satan" during this age.

Besides this, Revelation 20:9 is the only scripture talking about "the camp of the saints" and "the beloved city".

Where are these armies (that the text calls "Gog-Magog") gathering, and where is this "camp of the saints"?

If it's symbolic, then of what city is "the beloved city" symbolic, and and where / what is this "camp of the saints"? Is there only one?

If only it were that simple to have faith in denials, ignoring facts that interfere, and assumptions, then we could all confidently place our faith in the belief that the millennium will be completed by the time of the return of Christ.

If only we could all do that, then we could all place our faith in the idea that Revelation 20:9 is definitely, 100% talking about the same thing as 2 Peter 3:10 and all the others.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

>>>>""I've already shown you multiple times,
>>>>"""Paul was referring to both believers and unbelievers in Romans 14:10-12""
***
List where PAUL is ALSO referring to the UNbelievers in :-
Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 << Judgement Seat of Christ - Paul

LOL. You are a child. You have no ability to debate whatsoever. Are you afraid to address what I've already said about this several times? Do you understand that Paul referenced Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:11? Is there something you don't understand about Isaiah 45:22-24 indicating that even those who are incensed against Jesus having to bow before Him? That's an obvious reference to unbelievers. Do you deny that unbelievers will have to stand before Jesus and confess that He is Lord?

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

>>>>""I already did that. You are the clown here
This 'clown' understands English
**
Did Paul write Isaiah ? NO
Did I ask for Isaiah ? NO

He referenced Isaiah! Hello? So, why shouldn't we take his Old Testament reference into account to help see the context of what Paul was talking about? You obviously have no clue about how to actually study scripture. Sad.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Absolutely not!! Unbelievers are never shown to be involved with the Judgment Seat of Christ.

I can tell that you have never studied Romans 14:10-12 closely. Also, do you deny that the goats in Matthew 25:31-46 are unbelievers? They clearly are. It refers to Jesus sitting on His throne for judgment. How can that not be His judgment seat?

Do you understand that Paul was referencing Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:11?

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Here is the passage Paul is referencing in verse 11...

Isaiah 45:22 “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. 24 He shall say, ‘Surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.

Can you see here that even those "who are incensed against Him" will be appearing before Him and bowing down to Him? That's a clear reference to unbelievers. So, how can you deny that unbelievers will also have to stand before His judgment seat and give an account of themselves while bowing down to Him and confessing that He is Lord? You are not thinking about this carefully at all. I can't force you to see what the text indicates. Just read it and think about what it's saying. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). I'm done with this. You are unteachable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

IMO your OP is taking two different subjects and combining them into one.

I am saying that 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are descriptions of the same event. I don't know how anyone can deny that. How can the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night be a different subject than the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night?

Subject:

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)

--- And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (Revelation 20:9) ---

IMO it's not watertight to place Revelation 20:9 with the others.

Why?

Because

* In Jesus's message to the Laodicean church He promises those among them who overcome that He will "grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Revelation 3:21).

How does that support your view? Just quoting the verse without commentary does not tell me what you're thinking here. I don't see that verse is refuting what I'm saying at all. So, explain why you think it does.

* In chapter 4 the twenty-four elders are clothed in white raiment & have crowns [stephanos] of gold on their heads (Revelation 4:4).

Again, you provide no commentary, so I don't know why you think this refutes what I said in the OP. Please explain.

* In chapter 15, those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God (Revelation 15:2).

Yes. So? Please explain what your point is.

* In chapter 20, those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen seated on thrones, and they are alive [zao], and reigning with Christ for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6), where John is told that this is the first resurrection of the body [anastasis].

Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection of the body. So, when Revelation 20:6 talks about having part in the first resurrection it's talking about having part in Christ's resurrection.

The first resurrection:

Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

In 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 Paul indicates that Christ's resurrection was the first bodily resurrection in order and next in order are those who are Christ's at His second coming. With the context being resurrections unto bodily immortality.

Having part in the first resurrection:

Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

Besides this, everything that is written about the binding of Satan has to be forced by faith into a time preceding the return of Christ. - in denial of a number of verses of New Testament scripture, and changing of the meaning of others in order to create "support" for a "bound Satan" during this age.

I completely disagree. As you already know. We've covered this before several times, so I don't think I need to tell you again how I conclude that Satan's binding already occurred long ago.

Besides this, Revelation 20:9 is the only scripture talking about "the camp of the saints" and "the beloved city".

So? The book of Revelation obviously contains a lot of symbolism and some of the symbolic terms contained in it are only found within that book. How does that prove anything one way or another?

Where are these armies (that the text calls "Gog-Magog") gathering, and where is this "camp of the saints"?

Throughout the world. In Revelation 20:8 it says the "nations" are located "in the four corners of the earth" which is a figurative reference to the entire earth.

If it's symbolic, then of what city is "the beloved city" symbolic, and and where / what is this "camp of the saints"? Is there only one?

It's the same as "the holy city". New Jerusalem. It's the city of the living God (Hebrews 12:22). It's "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9). It's a symbolic reference to the church which obviously is located worldwide.

If only it were that simple to have faith in denials and ignorance (ignoring facts that interfere) and assumptions, so that we could all confidently place our faith in the belief that the millennium will be completed by the time of the return of Christ.

LOL. These kinds of claims are just plain ignorant. YOU are the one who denies what scripture clearly teaches. It clearly teaches that the heavens and earth will be burned up when Jesus comes as a thief in the night (2 Peter 3:10-12). It clearly teaches that at that time unbelievers will experience "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape". How can they escape fire coming down on them? They can't, of course. YOU are the ignorant one who is in denial.

If only we could all do that, then we could all place our faith in the idea that Revelation 20:9 is definitely, 100% talking about the same thing as 2 Peter 3:10 and all the others.

If only you could stop being ignorant and in denial, then you too could embrace this truth. But, you insist on being ignorant and in denial instead. I think 2 Peter 3:10-12 is a very clear, straightforward scripture and the way Premils like you butcher that passage is nothing short of embarrassing. When looked at with the parallel passage of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 it should be clear that no unbelievers will survive the return of Christ. That is what is indicated in other passages like 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Matthew 24:35-39 and Luke 17:26-37 as well. But, in your ignorance, you try to find ways around those clear passages.

 

[soberxp]

I am saying that 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are descriptions of the same event. I don't know how anyone can deny that. How can the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night be a different subject than the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night?

It was that day that Jesus came and was treated as a thief.I think maybe he came, but he was guarded like a thief.that day may be darker as night.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It was that day that Jesus came and was treated as a thief.I think maybe he came, but he was guarded like a thief.that day may be darker as night.

What day are you talking about?

 

[Zao is life]

I can tell that you have never studied Romans 14:10-12 closely.

With regard to that, this:

"Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:9-10)

does not tell me that this:

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:10-12),

has been happening in the case of the believers whom Paul is talking to and about, during each believer's lifetime, as @Earburner is asserting.

It's true what you say below:

Also, do you deny that the goats in Matthew 25:31-46 are unbelievers? They clearly are. It refers to Jesus sitting on His throne for judgment. How can that not be His judgment seat?

Do you understand that Paul was referencing Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:11?

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Here is the passage Paul is referencing in verse 11...

Isaiah 45:22 “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. 24 He shall say, ‘Surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.

Can you see here that even those "who are incensed against Him" will be appearing before Him and bowing down to Him? That's a clear reference to unbelievers. So, how can you deny that unbelievers will also have to stand before His judgment seat and give an account of themselves while bowing down to Him and confessing that He is Lord? You are not thinking about this carefully at all. I can't force you to see what the text indicates. Just read it and think about what it's saying. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). I'm done with this. You are unteachable.

 

[Earburner]

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Again, faithful born again Christians shall NEVER be condemned again!!

We are no longer under the condemnation of the wicked unsaved. John 3:18.
Romans 14:10
[10]But G1161 why G5101 dost G2919 thou G4771 judge G2919 thy G4675 brother? G80 or G2532 G2228 why G5101 dost G1848 thou G4771 set at nought G1848 thy G4675 brother? G80 for G1063 we shall G3936 all [who are Christians] G3956 stand before G3936** the judgment seat G968 of Christ. G5547

** G3936 to be at hand or ready
Born again Christians are NOW under the judgment of chastisement by God at will.

As His children, we are always ready or at hand to be corrected by Him as His children.

 

[Zao is life]

I am saying that 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are descriptions of the same event.

So am I.

I don't know how anyone can deny that.

Neither do I. Nor did I deny it.

How can the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night be a different subject than the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night?

I never said that. Read my post again.

How does that support your view? Just quoting the verse without commentary does not tell me what you're thinking here.

In the Revelation you see that those who went through the events at the end of the age are seated on thrones. You see how in chapter 15, those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God (Revelation 15:2).

You see how in chapter 20, those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen seated on thrones, and they are alive [zao], and reigning with Christ for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6), where John is told that this is the first resurrection of the body [anastasis].

They are not said to have part in the firstfruits of the resurrection, because Christ alone is the firstfruits of the resurrection:

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming." (1 Corinthians 15:20-23).

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4).

These are individual saints that John is talking about. No individual saint has ever lived a thousand years or reigned with Christ a thousand years.

"This is the first resurrection of the body [anastasis]. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:5b-6).

They are not said to have part in the firstfruits of the resurrection, because Christ alone is the firstfruits of the resurrection. It is through the power of His resurrection that the first resurrection of the body in the case of those who belong to Him at the time of His return, will occur.
​

Again, you provide no commentary, so I don't know why you think this refutes what I said in the OP. Please explain.​

If you took note of my post and read it noting the fact that I separated only Revelation 20:9 from the other posts in the New Testament which talk about the destruction of the rudiments of the world and the works of men at the time of the return of Christ, you would have understood why I was giving biblical facts which should tell any reader that Revelation 20:9 cannot be talking about the time of the return of Christ.

Besides that, as you know unlike yourself I cannot hold myself ignorant and in denial of the biblical facts that torpedo any theory about the "binding of Satan", in any form till now.

If only you could stop being ignorant and in denial, then you too could embrace this truth. But, you insist on being ignorant and in denial instead. I think 2 Peter 3:10-12 is a very clear, straightforward scripture and the way Premils like you butcher that passage is nothing short of embarrassing. When looked at with the parallel passage of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 it should be clear that no unbelievers will survive the return of Christ. That is what is indicated in other passages like 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Matthew 24:35-39 and Luke 17:26-37 as well. But, in your ignorance, you try to find ways around those clear passages.

Even if you stand on your head and whistle Auld Lang Syne through your nose, you will never be able to change the fact that there are two witnesses in Revelation 20 regarding the timing for the commencement of the thousand years which you hold yourself in ignorance and denial of - the binding of Satan, and what Revelation has to say about when exactly it came about that saints had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name.

If only it were that easy for me to do the same I could agree with the title of the subject of your thread as I do with almost everything else you say to others in your posts.​

 

[soberxp]

What day are you talking about?

Imagine the day when Jesus returns.All the media blocked the news.It was that day that Jesus came and was treated as a thief.I think maybe he came, but he was guarded like a thief.that day may be darker as night.

 

[Zao is life]

Again, faithful born again Christians shall NEVER be condemned again!!

Just because we won't be condemned doesn't mean we won't be judged for what we have done in the body as Christians. You are obviously conflating judgment with condemnation when it comes to the judgment of the saints.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Again, faithful born again Christians shall NEVER be condemned again!!

I never said otherwise! Unbelievable...

 

[Earburner]

Just because we won't be condemned doesn't mean we won't be judged for what we have done in the body as Christians. You are obviously conflating judgment with condemnation when it comes to the judgment of the saints.

Why don't you FINISH QUOTING what I wrote (post #235), and you just might understand it by His Holy Spirit.