The Tabernacle of the Heart

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Episkopos

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More knowledge than you.

It is a discussion and debate thread, not your preaching soapbox.


Do you call what you do discussion? It is accusation of the brethren...something only for the evil among us.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren. You have no love...and you accuse. Some people can see who you are...but many are unable to see that far.
 

Episkopos

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Brother I don’t wish to be evil. I just wish you would consider that what was buried in the napkin in the earth is the flesh of Christ? We are sent to reap. The fields are ready, have been. This is why they were reaping on the sabbath?


What is the difference between a human heart and that of an animal?
 

CoreIssue

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Do you call what you do discussion? It is accusation of the brethren...something only for the evil among us.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren. You have no love...and you accuse. Some people can see who you are...but many are unable to see that far.

Debate.
 

VictoryinJesus

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John 7:16-18 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Devil’s advocate is to advocate the flesh yeah?

Luke 19:20-22
[20] And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: [21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. [22] And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

1) can not deny in both parables it is an hard man to please ...all OT. Works of the flesh which without Faith can never please God. Pounds. Talents.—all worldly. Can not deny this man feared punishment of the king and ‘buried it’ or ‘laid it up in a napkin.’

2) this Lord over them said he reaps where He did not sow. Not the Lord of Heaven. Christ sowed and we reap. And He surely did not take up that Which He laid not down as the parable. He laid it down and took it up. The heavy burden is over.

3) is it Adam’s seed buried inside us we want to promote? Or Christ’s seed? If it is Christ seed then it is Spirit and even the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it. GOD gives the increase and brings it to fruition. God said “bury it”: take it to the tomb and lay it up in that napkin(grave clothes) bury it and leave it there. Now John 11:43-44 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. [44] And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Take off the old and put on the new. Do you see it? his face bound by a napkin. “Loose him” and “let him go.”
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Matthew 11:28-30
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
 
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Waiting on him

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John 7:16-18 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Devil’s advocate is to advocate the flesh yeah?

Luke 19:20-22
[20] And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: [21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. [22] And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

1) can not deny in both parables it is an hard man to please ...all OT. Works of the flesh which without Faith can never please God. Pounds. Talents.—all worldly. Can not deny this man feared punishment of the king and ‘buried it’ or ‘laid it up in a napkin.’

2) this Lord over them said he reaps where He did not sow. Not the Lord of Heaven. Christ sowed and we reap. And He surely did not take up that Which He laid not down as the parable. He laid it down and took it up. The heavy burden is over.

3) is it Adam’s seed buried inside us we want to promote? Or Christ’s seed? If it is Christ seed then it is Spirit and even the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it. GOD gives the increase and brings it to fruition. God said “bury it”: take it to the tomb and lay it up in that napkin(grave clothes) bury it and leave it there. Now John 11:43-44 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. [44] And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Take off the old and put on the new. Do you see it? his face bound by a napkin. “Loose him” and “let him go.”
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Matthew 11:28-30
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Wow:eek:!!
 

Jay Ross

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Now I am going to post something very important to understand....so it will most likely go unnoticed.

The context lies in this statement by Jesus... Luke 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

People are so concerned with a salvation status that they begin with. They never consider that God expects growth.


Here is a parable that is not understood in our time...

Luke 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


The dimensions of the tabernacle are 20 cubits and 10 cubits. In the above parable the comparison is identical....20k to 10k. This parable concerns the conversion of our hearts. But from a perspective of spiritual warfare.

The spirit inside of us that contains Christ is the smaller part (1/3) of our hearts...the holy of holies part. The larger part (2/3) are the things we set our hearts on....the things we love...family, country, past-times etc... IOW the things that occupy our hearts. Now we are twice more likely to love the things of this world in our daily lives than the things of God. Remember that the things of God occupy only 1/3 of our hearts. But that 1/3 must OVERCOME the other 2/3 of our hearts. THAT is the parable. We must give up all other affections and loves to let the love of God fully invade our whole heart.

Can we do this? No! We can't overcome ourselves. We must surrender all our loves to God...and forsake them if we wish to be wholehearted in our discipleship of Christ. We must seek the Lord for peace...a peace that means the love of God shed abroad in our whole hearts to serve Him alone.

So then to be overcomers we must first surrender all to Christ.
Do you actually know what is being said in these three parables found in Luke 14?

The first is Jesus telling the Jews that that they do not have the means to be able to complete building a temple and that they will be stopped from doing so and will look foolish because they did not have the means of completing the construction of the temple. Historically, the Jews have tried to rebuild the temple a number of times but each attempt has not succeeded and the rebuilding of the temples was abandoned each time. Even this latest desire to rebuild the temple will fail and will result in the gentile nations around Israel stopping the rebuilding of the temple for the third/fourth time.

The second parable is describing the battle/judgement of the kings/kingdoms of the earth at Armageddon and the realisation of Israel that they are powerless to fight against the king leading the army that is judging the kings of the earth at Armageddon. When the come to this realisation, they then seek out the terms of peace with this king. Paul tells us that after the battle at Armageddon at the end of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling the sanctuary of God, that all of Israel will be saved.

The third parable is about Israel being the salt to the nations and if the salt loses it saltiness then it will be cast out onto the dung heap.

In John 2:19ff Jesus tells us that after three days in God's timeframe of reference, that He, Himself will rebuild the temple with Him being the corner stone of the building and all of the Saints becoming the building block of the temple.

You are attempting to justify your understanding of God's salvation outcome, but, in this post, have chosen the wrong scriptural support to back up your thoughts.

The three parables in Luke 14 are end time parables concerning the redemption and destiny of all of Israel during the End Times.

Shalom
 

amadeus

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Jesus performs The circumcising, we have nothing to do with it

"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go." John 11:43-44


Jesus called him forth from death, but then he instructed men to loose him from those things which still bound him. A person can come forth from death but still never enter into Life!

Our hearts may be circumcised and cleaned out, but if they [our hearts] remain empty of the good things of God what will be the end result for us?
 

amadeus

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@Episkopos

Should we desire to remain in the outer court... or should we desire that God to allow to us to move on into the holy place and then hopefully eventually into the holiest of holies?

In the Ark that Noah built there were three levels of creatures saved from the flood, but those in the lowest and middle levels were still beasts. Ultimately we must do more than come out of Egypt following Moses. Most of those who followed him never were allowed to enter into the Promised Land. They died in the wilderness.

The beasts, even the ones who have been cleaned up need to move to kill their beasts or...?

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2
 
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Episkopos

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@Episkopos

Should we desire to remain in the outer court... or should we desire that God to allow to us to move on into the holy place and then hopefully eventually into the holiest of holies?

In the Ark that Noah built there were three levels of creatures saved from the flood, but those in the lowest and middle levels were still beasts. Ultimately we must do more than come out of Egypt following Moses. Most of those who followed him never were allowed to enter into the Promised Land. They died in the wilderness.

The beasts, even the ones who have been cleaned up need to move to kill their beasts or...?

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2
Very good comment Amadeus.

OK Now we are talking about the tabernacle which is in heaven. I do think it corresponds to our own hearts in that we are called to abide in Christ AS WELL AS Christ abiding in us.

This bears some thinking....

What causes a jar to float in the water? That it is empty....full of air and not water. So how many of us are as empty jars floating in God's ocean with water all around us....but nothing penetrating into us?

If we are filled with water...it is easy to sink down to the depths of God.

But our survival instinct is to stay above the waves. We fear the unknown and the depths below....until we realize that God is waiting there for us.
 
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amadeus

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Very good comment Amadeus.

OK Now we are talking about the tabernacle which is in heaven. I do think it corresponds to our own hearts in that we are called to abide in Christ AS WELL AS Christ abiding in us.

This bears some thinking....
For me I see no physical place apart from us. Heaven is three fold and all three are within us or for us no where at all. There is apparently a physical for the man of flesh, but again for me it is the fictional that man is able to perceive through his five senses and contemplate with the brain in his physical head.

For the Body of Christ there is another Head, which is already ready... that is Jesus. Each of us will contain heaven or we will not. That is up to each of us as we choose to approach God or not. John the Baptist was the type or shadow for us. He lost his physical head as a necessary message for us to read with understanding.

As the Baptist put it:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

Again this speaks of the He in me [the new man as per Paul] versus the me in me [the old man as per Paul]. As I decrease and as He increases, I am becoming a prepared part of His Body, the Body of Christ. While the beasts live, what heaven will dwell in what part of me? Think back to the three levels of Noah's Ark. Think also of the saved out of Egypt who died in the wilderness without attaining to the Promised Land.
 
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Waiting on him

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"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go." John 11:43-44


Jesus called him forth from death, but then he instructed men to loose him from those things which still bound him. A person can come forth from death but still never enter into Life!

Our hearts may be circumcised and cleaned out, but if they [our hearts] remain empty of the good things of God what will be the end result for us?
I’m not really certain, but it seems your saying that God doesn’t have the power to finish the work he’s started, that I in some way I am responsible?
 
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Helen

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Let me just start by saying that the tabernacle represents the human heart. Has anyone ever heard of this or considered this before?

Not so much the heart...but the human body...
Outercourt -body,
Holy Place...soul
Holy of Holies - Spirit

Now I will go back and read the rest of the pages.... :)
 

Helen

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It is a discussion and debate thread, not your preaching soapbox.

On that one he has you my friend.
This is not in the area of the Debate threads...it is on the Bible Study Boards, not the debate boards.
 

Helen

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is there anyone to actually respond to the OP? :)

Haha! You wish.
Don't have high expectations. But I remind you..the OP was just the drawing of the Tabernacle in the wilderness. :)