The Ten Commandments modified?!!

[Illuminator]

The Catholics here though would suggest that burning incense before it was merely asking it to pray for you.

A blatant lie, a total falsehood, an off topic flaming zinger. You use no incense, you don't circumsice 8 day old baby boys according to God's command, you have no sacristy lamp, (a perpetual ordinance) and nobody stones women to death for adultery anymore. So your "Jewishie sabbatarianism" is but a thin veneer.

Incense

During the Roman persecutions there was a standard t...

www.catholic.com

What they fail to realize, due to other false doctrines, is that there isn't anyone in heaven yet that can pray for anyone. Unless the resurrection has taken place already... Have I missed it?

Yes. By your reasoning, the Sabbath is more important than the Resurrection. You should be admonishing Jesus for rising a day late.

 

[Ziggy]

Why do churches have gargoyles placed on them?

Christianity is an extension of Judaism. All of the Apostles were Jewish. Jesus was born a Jew. We get our teachings from the OT which Paul explains them to a Gentile world.
The Romans were pagans. They believed in the "gods" . They had many as did other other gentile nations that were in the land.
Romanism became somewhat of a branch of Judaism. But it's mingled with it's own traditions.
The Veneration of the Sun... what is that?

The Egyptian peoples honored Ra, the sun god. For people in ancient Egypt, the sun was a source of life. It was power and energy, light and warmth. It was what made the crops grow each season, so it is no surprise that the cult of Ra had immense power and was widespread. Ra was the ruler of the heavens.

Tammuz was hailed as the son of the sun. He was idolized and even worshipped and the first letter of his name became the symbol of sun worship. Human sacrifices to the sun god were offered on this initial letter made of wood, known as the cross "T" and this "T" for Tammuz is also the true origin of Catholics crossing themselves.

Most likely you have read the history of Consantine and his observance of Sol or the sun. And that during sometime in the 300-400 AD the Romans not wanting to be associated with Jewish traditions created for themselves their own Sun-day worship.
That's why it's called Sun day.

I see Catholicism the same as I see the Pharisees in Jesus' day.
Their traditions blinded them to spiritual truth. Stubborn they were indeed.
Almost everything the Catholic church does is the opposite of what the bible tells us to avoid.
It is painfully obvious to some.
But I also believe that there is not one denomination that has everything right.

Politics has become a big part of my life these last 7 years. Politicians lie through their teeth and try to make you believe that what they are doing is in your best interest. They just need more of your money or your votes. They become powerful and hungry for more power.
And people put their faith in them, they believe in them, that their words will save them.
Most religions are the same. It's the power that they believe they weild over you and you believe they hold.

Funny how they say not to mix politics with religion until you find that they are one and the same. It's a matter of who you trust and who you worship. Who's teachings you follow and why.

There are a lot of protestant churches that still hold the traditions of the Catholic church which has it's roots in Egypt, not Eden.

I believe there is a reason but we haven't reached that point yet.
In time all will be made clear.

Faith needs to be in God alone. Not buildings or statues or rituals or rites. Not in days or months or the sun or planets.
We are still living in the shadows friend. After 2000 years we haven't come very far.
Not until we leave it all behind and follow him alone. It's hard for many. They are rooted and grounded and their traditions.

We Gentiles wouldn't know Jesus if it were not for the Jews. And we Gentiles would not know Sun day if it were not for Rome.
And there is a great distance between the two.

Just an observation
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

People did what Moses told them to and they got healed

Did the people believe in the snake on the pole or Moses' words?
If Moses had not spoken what good would that image have done them?
Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

A blatant lie, a total falsehood, an off topic flaming zinger, another stupid SDA insult

Is it, really? BoL was the one who justified the making of statues and used the serpent on the pole as a godly example, stating that such does not implicate one in worship an idol. Yet we have Hezekiah destroying the serpent because it was being worshipped... Incense was being burned before it. Don't Catholics burn incense before their statues? Why is that not worship, but Israel's incense burning was?

Yes. By your reasoning, the Sabbath is more important than the Resurrection. You should be admonishing Jesus for rising a day late.

It isn't about my reasoning or yours. It's about what God has ordained. It was good who declared the Sabbath, the specific 7th day of the creation week, as being holy and sanctified. No where in scripture is it suggested that God has changed His mind, made the 7th day unholy and unsanctified, and made the 1st day holy in it's stead. No where. That's the point. It isn't about me or you or our respective churches, it's about God's commandments, as this thread reveals.
God has a people as revealed in Revelation 12, as being specifically targeted by Satan who it is said is wrath with them and therefore makes war with them. These people can be identified in the same passage...
KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Illuminator]

Catholics follow their leaders as do other sects and denominations.

In your next breath if anyone mentions some misconduct of some particular pope, you’ll stomp your feet and demand that Catholics not be judged by their leadership.

If you refuse to read my links dismantling so many false notions in this thread, please refrain from making more off-topic fallacious remarks. And it would help the discussion if you stopped inserting headless chicken arguments with every post.

 

[Mr E]

If you refuse to read my links dismantling so many false notions in this thread, please refrain from making more off-topic fallacious remarks. And it would help the discussion if you stopped inserting headless chicken arguments with every post.

Don't be a bully. No one is required to read your links. The OP was noting that Catholics purposefully deemphasize a portion of the commandments as written in Exodus 20, because it doesn't suit their religious practices. And the OP is correct in this. You might not like anyone pointing that out, but it's dishonest of you to deny it.

This is the KJV-

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is the Catholic Poster that the OP was referencing:

 

[Illuminator]

Did the people believe in the snake on the pole or Moses' words?

The people obeyed Moses's words. You are creating a false dichotomy: either/or., NOT both/and.

If Moses had not spoken what good would that image have done them?
Hugs

A false scenario. If Moses had not spoken he would have disobeyed God.

 

[David in NJ]

Why do churches have gargoyles placed on them?

Christianity is an extension of Judaism. All of the Apostles were Jewish. Jesus was born a Jew. We get our teachings from the OT which Paul explains them to a Gentile world.
The Romans were pagans. They believed in the "gods" . They had many as did other other gentile nations that were in the land.
Romanism became somewhat of a branch of Judaism. But it's mingled with it's own traditions.
The Veneration of the Sun... what is that?

The Egyptian peoples honored Ra, the sun god. For people in ancient Egypt, the sun was a source of life. It was power and energy, light and warmth. It was what made the crops grow each season, so it is no surprise that the cult of Ra had immense power and was widespread. Ra was the ruler of the heavens.

Tammuz was hailed as the son of the sun. He was idolized and even worshipped and the first letter of his name became the symbol of sun worship. Human sacrifices to the sun god were offered on this initial letter made of wood, known as the cross "T" and this "T" for Tammuz is also the true origin of Catholics crossing themselves.

Most likely you have read the history of Consantine and his observance of Sol or the sun. And that during sometime in the 300-400 AD the Romans not wanting to be associated with Jewish traditions created for themselves their own Sun-day worship.
That's why it's called Sun day.

I see Catholicism the same as I see the Pharisees in Jesus' day.
Their traditions blinded them to spiritual truth. Stubborn they were indeed.
Almost everything the Catholic church does is the opposite of what the bible tells us to avoid.
It is painfully obvious to some.
But I also believe that there is not one denomination that has everything right.

Politics has become a big part of my life these last 7 years. Politicians lie through their teeth and try to make you believe that what they are doing is in your best interest. They just need more of your money or your votes. They become powerful and hungry for more power.
And people put their faith in them, they believe in them, that their words will save them.
Most religions are the same. It's the power that they believe they weild over you and you believe they hold.

Funny how they say not to mix politics with religion until you find that they are one and the same. It's a matter of who you trust and who you worship. Who's teachings you follow and why.

There are a lot of protestant churches that still hold the traditions of the Catholic church which has it's roots in Egypt, not Eden.

I believe there is a reason but we haven't reached that point yet.
In time all will be made clear.

Faith needs to be in God alone. Not buildings or statues or rituals or rites. Not in days or months or the sun or planets.
We are still living in the shadows friend. After 2000 years we haven't come very far.
Not until we leave it all behind and follow him alone. It's hard for many. They are rooted and grounded and their traditions.

We Gentiles wouldn't know Jesus if it were not for the Jews. And we Gentiles would not know Sun day if it were not for Rome.
And there is a great distance between the two.

Just an observation
Hugs

Catholicism was birthed in Babylon.
From there it traveled to Rome.
Rome fell and the Faith took hold.
But the Harlot escaped and She clothed herself in sheeps clothing and claimed to be the Church.
Promising salvation by works She grew attractive to the kings of the earth who committed fornication with her - to this day.

So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
Revelation ch17

 

[Illuminator]

Don't be a bully. No one is required to read your links. The OP was noting that Catholics purposefully deemphasize a portion of the commandments as written in Exodus 20, because it doesn't suit their religious practices. And the OP is correct in this. You might not like anyone pointing that out, but it's dishonest of you to deny it.

The OP has been refuted in post #20,34,43,46 and 63. You commented on none of them, but weighed in on page 4. What's dishonest is denying Augustine , Martin Luther's catechism and the CCC all list the commandments consistently. "purposefully deemphasize a portion of the commandments" is a lie, and I see no need to repeat the same posts over and over again just because you repeat others lies over and over again.

This is the KJV-

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is the Catholic Poster that the OP was referencing:


View attachment 29724

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

This is a critique of an anti-Catholic article, entitled, “Catholic Religion Purposely takes out one of God’s Ten Commandments.” It listed alternate numbering of the Ten Commandments as follows:

First Commandment [KJV]
I am the LORD thy God…Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Second Commandment [Catholic]
You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.

Second Commandment [KJV]
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. [bolding in original]

Third Commandment [Catholic]
Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.

Third Commandment [KJV]
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.

Fourth Commandment [Catholic]
Honor your father and your mother.

Fourth Commandment [KJV]
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Fifth Commandment [Catholic]
You shall not kill.

Fifth Commandment [KJV]
Honor thy father and thy mother.

Sixth Commandment [Catholic]
You shall not commit adultery.

Sixth Commandment [KJV]
Thou shalt not kill.

Seventh Commandment [Catholic]
You shall not steal.

Seventh Commandment [KJV]
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Eighth Commandment [Catholic]
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Eighth Commandment [KJV]
Thou shalt not steal.

Ninth Commandment [Catholic]
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

Ninth Commandment [KJV]
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Tenth Commandment [Catholic]
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house.

Tenth Commandment [KJV]
Thou shalt not covet.

This being the case, Christian groups have differed through the centuries, as to numbering. This is no “Catholic conspiracy.” Thus, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (2nd ed., edited by F. L. Cross and E. A. Livingstone, Oxford University Press, 1983, “Commandments, The Ten,” 318-319), notes:

. . . in the prohibition of covetousness, Ex. classes a man’s wife with his other domestic property, whereas Deut. treats her separately.

. . . There is a difference in the enumeration in the different Churches. In the C of E [Church of England] as well as in the Greek and the Reformed (Calvinist and Zwinglian) Churches the prohibitions relating to false worship are reckoned as two, whereas the RC Church and the Lutherans count them as one. Thus the enumeration of the subsequent Commandments differs, e.g., the fourth (Anglican, etc.) Commandment on the sanctification of the Sabbath is reckoned as the third by those following the RC method. The number ten is made up by splitting up the last Commandment forbidding covetousness into two.

So immediately we find that Martin Luther, the founder of Protestantism, and the Lutherans (no Catholics, they) are in on the “Romish” conspiracy to subvert the Ten Commandments.
(this fact has been avoided throughout this thread, but you say I am dishonest)
That makes the elegant anti-Catholic conspiratorialism not quite as simple and straightforward as is made out.

The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary (edited by Allen C. Myers, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1987) — also no organ of the Catholic Church –, in its article on the Commandments (p. 993), concurs:

At what points the Decalog is to be divided into precisely ten commandments has long been a matter of disagreement (e.g., some traditions regard v. 2 as the first commandment, combining vv. 3 and 4-6; others take vv. 3-6 as the first and divide v. 17 into two commandments). Debate also focuses on just where to divide the commandments into “two tables” (cf. 32:15; 34:4,28; Deut 4:13) . . .

The Protestant New International Dictionary of the Christian Church (edited by J. D. Douglas, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, rev. ed., 1978, 243) sheds further light on the differences in enumeration:

The Talmudic tradition held that the commandments against idolatry and the forbidding of images formed one long, indivisible unit. Augustine, who was followed by the Roman and Lutheran traditions, accepted this suggestion and found two commandments under the rubric “thou shalt not covet.” A further tradition, following the lead of Origen, separated the commandment against images from that against idolatry; this is the view of Calvin and the Reformed tradition.

(cf. #2066 in Catechism of the Catholic Church)

 

[Brakelite]

So your "Jewishie sabbatarianism" is but a thin veneer.

I don't expect a response to this because such would require some honesty on your part. I would much like you to quote a scripture describing the Sabbath as Jewish, or belonging to the Jews, or even the Sabbath of Israel. In my Bible, the Sabbath is constantly described as belonging to the Lord... Expressed in different ways it is "the Sabbath of the Lord"... "The Lord's day"...
"The Sabbath of the Lord thy God",
KJV Isaiah 58:13
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
etc etc.
Nowhere is it presented as the Sabbath of the Jews. Why is it described as the Sabbath of the Lord? Because it is. We observe the Sabbath of the Lord. Whose Sabbath do you observe?

You use no incense, you don't circumsice 8 day old baby boys according to God's command, you have no sacristy lamp, (a perpetual ordinance) and nobody stones women to death for adultery anymore.

Ummm, when did the discussion turn to a you do this, we do that topic? It began about Catholicism changing the ten commandments. As far as I know that hasn't changed.
Did the Catholic Church change the day of rest from the 7th day to the 1st? Yes. Did it have authority to do so? No. Why? Because scripture is devoid of any instruction or authority to change the laws of the Almighty.
Your references to various laws and statutes given to Israel through Moses are noted. Interesting but irrelevant.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Ok people, this is turning out to be an ugly back and forth debate. The OP is about the ten commandments. I think this thread is done.