The theological fallacy of a spiritual 'resurrection'

[ewq1938]

So therefore, you don't agree that "the power of His resurrection" is within you, whereby you have been made a "part-aker" of His "divine nature". 2 Peter 1:4.

Stop implying I don't agree with scripture. You will always be wrong when you do that. Read and understand what is being said:

The issue is the first resurrection of Revelation 20 is not him or his resurrection. It's the first of two resurrections of the dead.
His resurrection is how the first group of the dead is able to resurrect but they are a different "first resurrection", again being the first group to resurrect.

Jesus was the first singular resurrection.
The beheaded saints are the first group to resurrect.

The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is not a singular person resurrecting. It's an unknown amount of people, as a group, resurrecting.

 

[Zao is life]

I just don't find this to be a strong argument against the idea that it could be used that way in Revelation 20:4 because those who are physically dead and spiritually alive in heaven are rarely even referred to at all in the New Testament. If they were frequently referred to in the New Testament without ever being referred to using the word záō then that would increase the strength of your argument, but that is not the case.

So, just because the word záō is not used in reference to them anywhere else besides Revelation 20:4 does not mean it can't be used to refer to them in that verse. The souls and spirits of those who are physically dead are still alive (záō), so it isn't as if the word can't be used to refer to a person who is alive spiritually but not physically and bodily.

Would you agree that the Greek word záō at least can be used to refer to those who are physically, but not spiritually, dead even if you don't think it is actually used that way anywhere in scripture? If not, then what word would be used to refer to them being alive and living in heaven?

Then there's also the question of why the word záō would be used to refer to them instead of the word anazáō which is used to refer to "the rest of the dead" in Revelation 20:5 (which you try to deny). You, and other premils, claim that Revelation 20:4 says that the martyrs John saw are bodily resurrected and then reign with Christ for a thousand years afterwards. But, the Greek word záō is not a word used to described the act of someone rising from the dead. So, the question is, why wouldn't a Greek word like anazao, instead of záō, have been used there instead if it's describing the bodies of the souls John saw being resurrected? How would you answer that question?

So the rest of the dead did not live again (anazao). It means what it says. They remain dead. They do not zao again (Greek: anazao) until the thousand years are completed.You've changed the meaning of anazao to make what is says comply with your theology, and it's very obvious that this is what you are doing.

Then it says regarding those who did live again after having been beheaded, "This is the first anastasis".

You really are grasping at straws here. The separation into verses 4, 5 and 6 only took place in the year 1227 A.D. The anastasis (bodily resurrection) is mentioned right there where John records he saw them living though they had been beheaded.

You also keep applying the word zao to "being physically dead and spiritually alive in heaven" despite the fact that the New Testament never applies that word to anyone except to those who are alive in their bodies, i.e physically alive, not physically dead.

I've listed all the New Testament verses. Just because your theology requires that the word "zao" in Revelation 20:4 is the only exception out of so many New Testament verses (such a massive cloud of scriptural witnesses against your false assertion), does not make your argument any stronger. It remains an extremely weak argument.

The word zao in Revelation 20:4 is also linked to the word anastasis in Revelation 20:5-6.

This thread also lists all the verses in the New Testament using the words associated with resurrection and being made alive again by the Spirit of God. That's what this thread is about. "Zao" applies only to people who are physically alive, not yet in need of anastasis.

zōopoiéō: Used in reference to the Spirit's quickening, making alive again, giving or imparting (eternal) life. Also used in reference to the quickening of the mortal body (see below).

syzōopoiéō: Made alive again together with Christ, quickened together with Christ.

synegeírō: Bodily raised up together with Christ's bodily resurrection.

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in sins has made us alive together with Christ [συζωοποιέω syzōopoiéō] (by grace you are saved), and has raised us up together [synegeírō] and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4-6).

It's as Jesus promised:

"At that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20).

anástasis; égersis; anístēmi; egeírō and synegeírō all speak of bodily resurrection from the dead after physical death (in each and every New Testament verse where the words are found, without exception).

In your post you once again ensure that your fallacy - applying the word "zao" in Revelation 20:4 to those who are "physically dead and spiritually alive in heaven" (despite the fact that the New Testament never uses the word "zao" in reference to those who are physically dead) - is made crystal clear.

Here again is the great cloud of scriptural witnesses against your false assertion:

|| Matthew 16:16; Matthew 22:32; Matthew 26:63; Matthew 27:63; Mark 5:23; Mark 12:27; Mark 16:11; Luke 2:36; Luke 4:4; Luke 10:28; Luke 15:13; Luke 20:38; Luke 24:5; Luke 24:23; John 4:10; John 4:11; John 4:50; John 4:51; John 4:53; John 5:25; John 6:51; John 6:57; John 6:58; John 6:69; John 7:38; John 11:25; John 11:26; John 14:19; Acts 1:3; Acts 7:38; Acts 9:41; Acts 10:42; Acts 14:15; Acts 17:28; Acts 20:12; Acts 22:22; Acts 25:19; Acts 25:24; Acts 26:5; Acts 28:4; Romans 1:17; Romans 6:2; Romans 6:10; Romans 6:11; Romans 6:13; Romans 7:1; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:3; Romans 7:9; Romans 8:12; Romans 8:13; Romans 9:26; Romans 10:5; Romans 12:1; Romans 14:7; Romans 14:8; Romans 14:9; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:11; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 2:14; Galatians 2:19; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:11; Galatians 3:12; Galatians 5:25; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 1:22; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:7; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 3:12; 2 Timothy 4:1; Titus 2:12; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:12; Hebrews 7:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 10:38; Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:22; James 4:15; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 4:5; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 John 4:9; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 7:2; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 13:14; Revelation 15:7; Revelation 16:3; Revelation 19:20 (cast alive into the lake of fire); Revelation 20:4. ||

 

[Zao is life]

Good grief, dude. Why didn't you allow for more time for some of us to respond before saying this? I have replied to several other posts in other threads before getting to this one. And I do have other things to do besides post here as well. I was planning to address part of your four long posts at some point and I've gotten around to doing that today. Your argument regarding the word anastasis doesn't apply to my particular view so that's why I only responded to what you said about the Greek word zao.

LOL. Get over yourself.

Took you a long time to work out the best way to get that dig in, didn't it?

I'm not surprised you "didn't notice" the terror expressed by one Amil poster at the prospect of what the scriptural facts I produced in the first four posts might do to the interpretation of Revelation 20:4-6 (which is not what this thread is about, though you Amills keep dragging it toward one and one only place where the words anastasis and zao are found in three verses.

You're slipping up. Normally you're much faster than that.

 

[Zao is life]

Please notice that your words do not describe HOW one "belongs" to Christ.
However, what you have described are the "foolish virgins". Yes, many come to Christ for the forgiveness of sins through His blood, but they NEVER asked for the Gift of His Holy Spirit, which IS THE vehicle of the Gift of eternal life to usward.
KJV-Luke 11:13
Such Christians are only half baked.
They agree with God for their need for the blood of Christ, but they never followed through in a one on one personal committment of establishing a covenant relationship with Christ.
Luke 11:13, Revelation 3:20, John 3:7.

Without the Gift of His Holy Spirit permanently dwelling within them, all of such are NOT ready to meet the Lord upon His return.
Matthew 25[10] And while they [five foolish] went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:
and the door was shut.
Just like the door on Noah's Ark, whereby only Eight (8) souls were saved.

"Many are called, but few chosen". Matthew 20:16

You should let Jesus concern Himself with who are the people you describe above. He is the only judge of who they are (you and I are completely unqualified), because all you're doing is applying the above statements, which are not part of this thread's topic, to who-knows-who (because you're obviously applying the above statements of yours to others but never yourself), and you're obviously using the above as a red herring that does not even come near to addressing the scriptural facts mentioned in the first four posts in this thread.

Stay on topic please.

 

[Earburner]

Stop implying I don't agree with scripture. You will always be wrong when you do that. Read and understand what is being said:

The issue is the first resurrection of Revelation 20 is not him or his resurrection. It's the first of two resurrections of the dead.
His resurrection is how the first group of the dead is able to resurrect but they are a different "first resurrection", again being the first group to resurrect.

Jesus was the first singular resurrection.
The beheaded saints are the first group to resurrect.

The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is not a singular person resurrecting. It's an unknown amount of people, as a group, resurrecting.

Your belief system filters everything through the understanding that there will be a KoG on earth for a literal 1000 years after Christ returns. I strongly disagree. The 1000 years is a metaphor of undisclosed length of time of God's Grace, which began on Pentecost.
Revelation 20:4 is referencing the three periods of the church age.
1. Early church
2. Reformation church
3. End time church

 

[Earburner]

You should let Jesus concern Himself with who are the people you describe above. He is the only judge of who they are (you and I are completely unqualified), because all you're doing is applying the above statements, which are not part of this thread's topic, to who-knows-who (because you're obviously applying the above statements of yours to others but never yourself), and you're obviously using the above as a red herring that does not even come near to addressing the scriptural facts mentioned in the first four posts in this thread.

Stay on topic please.

I am on topic! I was speaking about the power of Christ's resurrection, which is the FIRST Resurrection. If anyone hath no part in the resurrection of Jesus, they are not "holy", nor are they "blessed". Therefore the power of the second death remains upon them.

Paul saw the importance of that.
Phil.3[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death

 

[Zao is life]

I am on topic! I was speaking about the power of Christ's resurrection, which is the FIRST Resurrection. If anyone hath no part in the resurrection of Jesus, they are not "holy", nor are they "blessed". Therefore the power of the second death remains upon them.

Paul saw the importance of that.
Phil.3[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death

And the words speaking about resurrection are always, without exception, speaking about the bodily resurrection, and what is required for a bodily resurrection, is a spiritual quickening first, which must and can only be the work of the Holy Spirit:

zōopoiéō: Used in reference to the Spirit's quickening, making alive again, giving or imparting (eternal) life. Also used in reference to the quickening of the mortal body (see below).
syzōopoiéō: Made alive again together with Christ, quickened together with Christ.

So this proves once again what the first four posts in this thread have said.

 

[Earburner]

You should let Jesus concern Himself with who are the people you describe above. He is the only judge of who they are (you and I are completely unqualified), because all you're doing is applying the above statements, which are not part of this thread's topic, to who-knows-who (because you're obviously applying the above statements of yours to others but never yourself), and you're obviously using the above as a red herring that does not even come near to addressing the scriptural facts mentioned in the first four posts in this thread.

1 Corinthians 2[14] But the natural man [mind] receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Which "mind" are you speaking from?
1Cor.2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[Earburner]

And the words speaking about resurrection are always, without exception, speaking about the bodily resurrection, and what is required for a bodily resurrection, is a spiritual quickening first, which must and can only be the work of the Holy Spirit:

Yes! As I had said: Our resurrection is a two stage process. There will be no resurrection of our physical bodies, unless we have received the Holy Spirit of God, the very actuator of ALL resurrections.
The power to spiritually quicken us, is found in Him, who is the resurrection.
I repeat, Jesus is the resurrection.

You can't have the end results of His act of our resurrection, until you have part in the origin of it, who is Jesus.
John.5[21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Rom.8[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[dev553344]

This is a subject that requires me to give the scriptural facts as to why the title of this thread is indeed the case, and because that will make it a long subject, it will be divided into four different posts.

It will be divided in two parts:

1. New Testament words used in reference to the resurrection; and
2. New Testament words in reference to living or being made alive by the Spirit ("quickened").

1. New Testament words used in reference to the resurrection:

Noun: ἀνάστασις anástasis (“The Resurrection”): A standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

Noun: ἔγερσις égersis: A standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

Verb: ἐγείρω egeírō: To waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence):--awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.

Verb: ἀνίστημι anístēmi: To stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right).

Verb: συνεγείρω synegeírō: to rouse (from death) in company with, i.e. (figuratively) to revivify (spirtually) in resemblance to:--raise up together, rise with.

* The verbs are sometimes employed for normal use, for example as in "Rise up! Let's go!", but the nouns are always talking about the bodily resurrection from the dead.

The Greek noun used in the New Testament for The Resurrection is ho anástasis: ("the resurrection"). Without fail, each and every time anástasis is used in the New Testament, it's referring to the bodily resurrection:

|| Matthew 22:23, 28 & 30-31; Mark 12:18 & 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27, 33, 35-36; John 5:29; John 11:24-25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18, 32; Acts 23:6, 8; Acts 24:15, 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12-13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10; II Timothy 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; I Peter 1:3; I Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

Continued in next post.

I believe in a spiritual and physical resurrection. The bible makes this clear:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47

King James Version


45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

 

[ewq1938]

Your belief system filters everything through the understanding that there will be a KoG on earth for a literal 1000 years after Christ returns. I strongly disagree.

Your belief system filters everything through the understanding that there will not be a KoG on earth for a literal 1000 years after Christ returns. I disagree more strongly and so does the bible.

The 1000 years is a metaphor of undisclosed length of time of God's Grace, which began on Pentecost.

And that is imaginary fiction that is found nowhere in scripture.

Revelation 20:4 is referencing the three periods of the church age.
1. Early church
2. Reformation church
3. End time church

Wrong. Revelation 20:4 is a timeframe of the second coming when the dead in Christ are resurrected. The verse in no way supports your strange interpretation:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Not a word about three periods of the church age at all.

These people died in the Great Tribulation, the time when the saints will refuse the mark of the beast.

 

[Zao is life]

Yes! As I had said: Our resurrection is a two stage process. There will be no resurrection of our physical bodies, unless we have received the Holy Spirit of God, the very actuator of ALL resurrections.
The power to spiritually quicken us, is found in Him, who is the resurrection.
I repeat, Jesus is the resurrection.

You can't have the end results of His act of our resurrection, until you have part in the origin of it, who is Jesus.
John.5[21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Rom.8[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Yes. SHALL quicken your mortal bodies. If you are born again you have received the quickening but anticipate the resurrection.

Christians need to understand the difference between bodily resurrection and the quickening of the Spirit, because faulty theology completely conflates the word resurrection with the quickening of the Spirit. We should really consider these facts.

The Greek word psychḗ is used interchangeably in the New Testament in reference to the life, the mind and the soul, for example:-

The mind:- (examples) Philippians 1:27
"Only let your conduct be as becomes the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you, or else am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit [pneûma], striving together with one mind [psychḗ] for the faith of the gospel."

Hebrews 12:3
"For consider Him who endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest you be weary and faint in your minds [psychḗ]."

The life:- (example) Matthew 2:20; Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:39

The soul:- Matthew 10:28; Isaiah 42:1 (quoted also in Matthew 12:18); 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12

Genesis 2:7 tells us that when Adam was created, the Spirit (breath) of God breathed spiritual life into Adam, and he became a living soul.

When Adam sinned, he lost the source of (eternal) spiritual life, and ever since, whoever is born into the world, is born without (eternal) spiritual life and must be born of the Spirit from above in order to 'see' [εἴδω eídō: behold, know, experience, understand] the Kingdom of God.

John 3:3
"Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born [γεννάω gennáō] from above [Greek: ἄνωθεν ánōthen], he cannot see the kingdom of God."

00509 ἄνωθεν ánōthen, an'-o-then
from 507;
from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

John 3:6-8
"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit [pneûma] is spirit.

Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born from above [ἄνωθεν ánōthen]. The Spirit [pneûma]] breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born [γεννάω gennáō] of the Spirit."

Both Genesis 2:7 and John 3:8 (above) speak of the Spirit of God breathing His (eternal) life into man.

These, once again, are the Greek words used in the New Testament in reference to being made alive by the Spirit ("quickened"):

zōopoiéō: Used in reference to the Spirit's quickening, making alive again, giving or imparting (eternal) life. Also used in reference to the quickening of the mortal body (see below).
syzōopoiéō: Made alive again together with Christ, quickened together with Christ.

The word zōopoiéō ("quicken") refers to being made alive by the Spirit, and it is used in the following verses:

|| John 5:21; John 6:63; Romans 4:17; Romans 8:11; I Corinthians 15:22, 36 & 45; II Corinthians 3:6; Galatians 3:21; I Timothy 6:13; I Peter 3:18. ||

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has begotten us again [anagennáō] to a living hope (Greek: záō elpís) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." (1 Peter 1:3) *

* anagennáō ["begotten us again"] is a combination of the words gennáō (beget) and aná (again)
* Living hope (záō elpís): The word záō means to live, and the word elpís means to anticipate, and this is what we anticipate:

"And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body." (Romans 8:23)

The above verse speaks of our bodily resurrection - something we live in hope (anticipation) of; and the resurrection (Greek: anástasis/égersis), whenever mentioned in the New Testament, always and without exception refers only to the bodily resurrection FROM the dead, not to any supposed spiritual 'resurrection' (the Greek words for resurrection implies bodily resurrection FROM the dead whenever it appears in the New Testament).

The same goes for the Greek verbs used in reference to rising again from the dead: egeírō, anístēmi.

In the New Testament, the Greek word syzōopoiéō refers to being made alive spiritually through being born of the Spirit ("quickened together with Christ); and synegeírō refers to being bodily raised up together with Christ's bodily resurrection:

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in sins has made us alive together with Christ [συζωοποιέω syzōopoiéō] (by grace you are saved), and has raised us up together [synegeírō] and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4-6).

"But if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies by His Spirit who dwells in you." (Romans 8:11).

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5).

The word "regeneration" in the above verse is a translation of the Greek word palingenesía [StrongsGreek G03824]. It's a combination of the words pálin (anew) and génesis (i.e generation).

Thayer's dictionary definition of palingenesía: new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration.

The word is also found in Matthew 19:28.

Being made alive by the Spirit together with Christ, i.e regenerated through spiritual birth from above is what we already have received. The resurrection (ho anastasis) is what we anticipate: It refers only to the bodily resurrection. See posts #1 and #2 in this thread.

1. GOD'S WORD ABOVE ALL THINGS.

OR

​

2. AMILLENNILIALIST FALSE THEOLOGY REGARDING SUPPOSED SPIRITUAL "RESURRECTION" ABOVE ALL THINGS.

Make your choices, because the above two do not equate.

 

[Zao is life]

I believe in a spiritual and physical resurrection. The bible makes this clear:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47

King James Version


45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The Bible makes physical resurrection clear. See posts 1, 2, 3, 4 and 52 (above). You're adding to scripture by talking of a spiritual "resurrection".

 

[Earburner]

The Bible makes physical resurrection clear. See posts 1, 2, 3, 4 and 52 (above). You're adding to scripture by talking of a spiritual "resurrection".

Indeed it does, but what happened prior to that day, of our coming bodily resurrection, is paramount and certainly necessary:
Colossians 1[12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

 

[Earburner]

Your belief system filters everything through the understanding that there will not be a KoG on earth for a literal 1000 years after Christ returns. I disagree more strongly and so does the bible.



And that is imaginary fiction that is found nowhere in scripture.



Wrong. Revelation 20:4 is a timeframe of the second coming when the dead in Christ are resurrected. The verse in no way supports your strange interpretation:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Not a word about three periods of the church age at all.

These people died in the Great Tribulation, the time when the saints will refuse the mark of the beast.

So then, no one was persecuted unto death in the "Early church era"; or the "Reformation church era"?

It's not a strange interpretation, when you understand that the figurative 1000 years of God's Grace began ever since Pentecost, and has no specified end until God the Father determines that it has ended.
Here is a clue in Jesus' rhetorical question:
Luke.18[8] I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 

[ewq1938]

So then, no one was persecuted unto death in the "Early church era"; or the "Reformation church era"?

**Amillennial Strawman fallacy ALERT!**


No one died refusing to worship the image of the beast and refusing to take the mark of the beast. Those things can happen only in the 42 month Great Tribulation of Revelation 13. It's the second beast the False Prophet that makes people worship the image and take the mark. The saints of Revelation 20 refused to do that but had the testimony of Christ. That cannot be applied to just any people or era.

 

[Earburner]

**Amillennial Strawman fallacy ALERT!**


No one died refusing to worship the image of the beast and refusing to take the mark of the beast. Those things can happen only in the 42 month Great Tribulation of Revelation 13. It's the second beast the False Prophet that makes people worship the image and take the mark. The saints of Revelation 20 refused to do that but had the testimony of Christ. That cannot be applied to just any people or era.

 

[Earburner]

**Amillennial Strawman fallacy ALERT!**


No one died refusing to worship the image of the beast and refusing to take the mark of the beast. Those things can happen only in the 42 month Great Tribulation of Revelation 13. It's the second beast the False Prophet that makes people worship the image and take the mark. The saints of Revelation 20 refused to do that but had the testimony of Christ. That cannot be applied to just any people or era.

A. Refusing to answer my question doesn't help your argument. Let me put it this way:
1. Who suffered martyrdom for their witness of Jesus?
Ans. The Early church.

2. Who suffered martyrdom for the word of God?
Ans. The Reformation church.

3. Who shall suffer martyrdom for not taking the mark of the 10H Beast?
Ans. The End time church.

B. I think that your order of who does what in Revelation 13:11-17, is amiss.
In the KJV, it is showing that "the image" causes all the world to take the "mark of the 10H Beast".

The 2H Beast, while making fire come down from heaven, says to the world, that they who are of the world should make "an image to the 10H Beast".
That "image", is the UN.

Edit: KJV Rev. 13[15] And he [2H Beast] had power to give life [political life] unto the image of the beast, [so] that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship [comply with] the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he [the image] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

 

[ewq1938]

A. Refusing to answer my question doesn't help your argument. Let me put it this way:
1. Who suffered martyrdom for their witness of Jesus?
Ans. The Early church.

And they not the end times beheaded saints that refuse to worship the image and not take the mark in Revelation 20. Those things do not exist except in the future 42 month Great Tribulation.

2. Who suffered martyrdom for the word of God?
Ans. The Reformation church.

Red herring fallacies. Those aren't the people we are talking about.

They not the end times beheaded saints that refuse to worship the image and not take the mark in Revelation 20. Those things do not exist except in the future 42 month Great Tribulation.

3. Who shall suffer martyrdom for not taking the mark of the 10H Beast?
Ans. The End time church.

Which are different people than martyrs of the past.

B. I think that your order of who does what in Revelation 13:11-17, is amiss.
In the KJV, it is showing that "the image" causes all the world to take the "mark of the 10H Beast".

No, it doesn't show that:

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

That last part is still the same HE, the False Prophet.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


All the He's are the False Prophet.

The 2H Beast, while making fire come down from heaven, says to the world, that they who are of the world should make "an image to the 10H Beast".
That "image", is the UN.

The False Prophet exists before the image does. The False Prophet orders people to make the image. This is a timeframe future to today. The UN was created long ago and not by order of the False Prophet. You are making typical preterist errors. Revelation is mostly future events with very little past events.

 

[Earburner]

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

That last part is still the same HE, the False Prophet.

It appears that you will believe anything to support your filter of a millennium on earth, after Christ returns in flaming fire.

Let's examine the scripture reference:
And he [2H Beast] had power to give life unto the image of the beast, [so] that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause
that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.