The thief on the cross misconceptions

[Titus]

Obedience saves?

Jesus said yes,
Hebrews 5:8-9,
- and having been perfected, Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

 

[ButterflyJones]

You're trying to twist things. Obedience doesn't save but without being
obedience you certainly won't be. Abraham had faith and his faith was counted as righteousness but he was also obedient. Had he not been obedient, he couldn't have then become righteous as it was his obedience that demonstrated his faith. If you have belief and faith you'll obey.

I didn't twist anything. I asked a question so to clarify the information in your post.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Jesus said yes,
Hebrews 5:8-9,
- and having been perfected, Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

He needed a post script to his saying we are saved by grace through faith by God.
Not of ourselves so that we may not boast of saving ourselves in other ways?

 

[Titus]

He needed a post script to his saying we are saved by grace through faith by God.
Not of ourselves so that we may not boast of saving ourselves in other ways?

Ephesians 2:8-9. Explain where and how the Ephesians were saved?
Obedience is not saving ourselves without Gods grace.
As Ernest T. Bass has asked, where in the Bible does it say obeying Gods will is a work of merit?

 

[David in NJ]

You're trying to twist things. Obedience doesn't save but without being
obedience you certainly won't be. Abraham had faith and his faith was counted as righteousness but he was also obedient. Had he not been obedient, he couldn't have then become righteous as it was his obedience that demonstrated his faith. If you have belief and faith you'll obey.

What did Abraham do whereby God credited to him His righteousness?

 

[ButterflyJones]

Ephesians 2:8-9. Explain where and how the Ephesians were saved?
Obedience is not saving ourselves without Gods grace.
As Ernest T. Bass has asked, where in the Bible does it say obeying Gods will is a work of merit?

What is at issue I think and as I read some here is their adding to God's free irrevocable gift when they presume to insist we must do something more, we must, in order to secure what God bestowed as his irrevocable gift.

 

[Titus]

What is at issue I think and as I read some here is their adding to God's free irrevocable gift when they presume to insist we must do something more, we must, in order to secure what God bestowed as his irrevocable gift.

That's vague. Be specific of what you believe God requires of us to receive His grace.
If you say we must do something, that goes against the theology that God does everything man does nothing.

 

[Titus]

What did Abraham do whereby God credited to him His righteousness?

Read Genesis 12 to Genesis 26. That will explain that Abraham was justified by an obedient faith. God never justified Abraham because he believed what he said. He was accounted righteous because He believed and obeyed God.
Hebrews 11:8,
- by faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance and he went not knowing where he was going.
This occured in Genesis 12:
God accounted Abraham's faith righteousness in Genesis 15:6.
Abraham did not have faith only. He had already believed and the Bible says his faith was an obedient faith. He obeyed Gods commandments. Abraham is not an example of faith only.
James 2:21-23,
- was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar.
- and the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God

James 2:24,
- You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone?

 

[David in NJ]

Read Genesis 12 to Genesis 26. That will explain that Abraham was justified by an obedient faith. God never justified Abraham because he believed what he said. He was accounted righteous because He believed and obeyed God.
Hebrews 11:8,
- by faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance and he went not knowing where he was going.
This occured in Genesis 12:
God accounted Abraham's faith righteousness in Genesis 15:6.
Abraham did not have faith only. He had already believed and the Bible says his faith was an obedient faith. He obeyed Gods commandments. Abraham is not an example of faith only.
James 2:21-23,
- was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar.
- and the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God

James 2:24,
- You see them that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone?

YES - you found it = "He was accounted righteous because He believed God."

It was Abraham belief in the Word of God that saved him - works came after...........works follow faith when we believe God at His Word.

Chicken before eggs = Genesis

 

[Titus]

YES - you found it = "He was accounted righteous because He believed and obeyed God."

It was Abraham belief in the Word of God that saved him - works came after...........works follow faith when we believe God at His Word.

Chicken before eggs = Genesis

No, you need to study your old testament.
Genesis 12 Abraham believed and obeyed Gods commandments.
Genesis 15:6 God accounts Abraham's faith as righteousness.
That is not faith alone and no obedience.
God said Abraham's faith was accounted righteousness because he did not have faith only, he had a faith that obeyed Gods commandments.

 

[Titus]

YES - you found it = "He was accounted righteous because He believed God."

It was Abraham belief in the Word of God that saved him - works came after...........works follow faith when we believe God at His Word.

Chicken before eggs = Genesis

If Abraham only believed God but did not leave his homeland, then God would have never accounted Abraham's faith as righteousness.
Saving faith in the old and new testaments has always been a faith that obeys God.

 

[David in NJ]

No, you need to study your old testament.
Genesis 12 Abraham believed and obeyed Gods commandments.
Genesis 15:6 God accounts Abraham's faith as righteousness.
That is not faith alone and no obedience.
God said Abraham's faith was accounted righteousness because he did not have faith only, he had a faith that obeyed Gods commandments.

Always trying to add 'righteousness by works' is sad.

You just do not fully see what is going on between God and Abraham = it is all about Abraham believing what God tells him.

 

[David in NJ]

If Abraham only believed God but did not leave his homeland, then God would have never accounted Abraham's faith as righteousness.
Saving faith in the old and new testaments has always been a faith that obeys God.

Faith unto Salvation comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
If we hear and believe what we hear God saying to us = God credits us with His Righteousness.
Obeying what God says comes AFTER we hear what HE says.............

Chicken before eggs = Genesis

 

[Titus]

Always trying to add 'righteousness by works' is sad.

You just do not fully see what is going on between God and Abraham = it is all about Abraham believing what God tells him.

Again, so according to you. If Abraham only believed what God tells him but rebelled against God by not leaving his homeland, not sacrificing his son Isacc. That is according to you saving faith. Or faith without obedience to God.
James 2:20,
- but do you want to know O foolish man that faith without works is dead?

 

[Titus]

If we hear and believe what we hear God saying to us = God credits us with His Righteousness

That's not the example of Abraham's faith. He did obey Gods commandments before God accounted His faith as righteousness. Your teaching is not Biblical faith.

 

[David in NJ]

Again, so according to you. If Abraham only believed what God tells him but rebelled against God by not leaving his homeland, not sacrificing his son Isacc. That is according to you saving faith. Or faith without obedience to God.
James 2:20,
- but do you want to know O foolish man that faith without works is dead?

Obedience to God is a 'no brainer' but that is not the cause of Salvation.

 

[David in NJ]

That's not the example of Abraham's faith. He did obey Gods commandments before God accounted His faith as righteousness. Your teaching is not Biblical faith.

What you are saying is hilarious.

NO ONE can obey God unless HE first speaks to them.....................

 

[Titus]

Obedience to God is a 'no brainer' but that is not the cause of Salvation.

Faith alone did not account Abraham as righteous, no way.
God commanded him to do things and because Abraham had faith in God he obeyed.
That is Biblical saving faith.
Just believing what God says but dis-obeying His commandments cannot save. The faith that saves is the faith that obeys, Hebrews 5:8-9.

 

[Titus]

What you are saying is hilarious.

NO ONE can obey God unless HE first speaks to them.....................

What you are saying is hilarious.

NO ONE can obey God unless HE first speaks to them.....................

I never said that. You are confused

 

[David in NJ]

Faith alone did not account Abraham as righteous, no way.
God commanded him to do things and because Abraham had faith in God he obeyed.
That is Biblical saving faith.
Just believing what God says but dis-obeying His commandments cannot save. The faith that saves is the faith that obeys, Hebrews 5:8-9.

How about yourself- are you willing to believe God at His word?