ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Obedience is leading of the Holy Spirit to serve God's will. Faith, as in Abraham case, counted as righteousness in God's eyes.
Obedience does not save. Rather it, like our good deeds, are evidence of salvation.
The thief on the cross misconceptions
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Obedience does not save. Rather it, like our good deeds, are evidence of salvation.
Johann
Well-Known Member
I fully concur, the latest trend here on this Forum is to classify obedience to the Imperatives of God and Christ "as works"
Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
There is work to be done for the believer in Christ. Mere "faithing" it ain't gonna work.
J.
You've got it a bit backwards. Obedience comes first, which leads you to obey the commands afterwhich you can attain your salvation or on the case of Abraham, be counted as righteousness. Obedience is NOT evidence of salvation. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:15). What came first? Salvation or belief?
Belief first leads to obedience and adherence to the command to be baptized in order to gain salvation. If you believe you follow up in your belief and then obey.
Behold
Well-Known Member
So, you are teaching that a sinner, hell bound, ... John 3:36....... who is "keeping commandments", is only what God accepts to then save you?
Nonsense.
"Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".......>"while we were YET Sinners , Christ died for us".
See that?
No commandments required to be forgiven all sin.
What is required?
A sinner going to God, believing in Jesus.
God will save that one , every time., for the last 2000 yrs.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@DJT_47 @Johann @ButterflyJones @Titus @Ziggy @St. SteVen @Ernest T. Bass
i FOUND the ANSWER and it looks like 'Works' and 'Obedience' is the TICKET = SEE Below Titus 3:1-3
"Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another."
OOPS = Titus 3:1-3 Maybe not be the right answer
OK = Correct Answer found, same place = Titus 3:4-7
But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us,
through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
And guess what was left out of Salvation = water
Go Figure - Yah Live and Yah Learn Yah Know
i FOUND the ANSWER and it looks like 'Works' and 'Obedience' is the TICKET = SEE Below Titus 3:1-3
"Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another."
OOPS = Titus 3:1-3 Maybe not be the right answer
OK = Correct Answer found, same place = Titus 3:4-7
But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us,
through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
And guess what was left out of Salvation = water
Go Figure - Yah Live and Yah Learn Yah Know
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Scripture doesn't teach believing is all that's required, unless you choose to ignor other scriptures. These are your words and thoughts that have no biblical foundation.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
"Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and he shall be saved. You and your household shall be saved. "
Johann
Well-Known Member
For we are His masterpiece, having been created in Moshiach Yehoshua for ma'asim tovim, which Hashem prepared beforehand, that the derech of our halakhah should be in them.[YESHAYAH 29:23; 42:7; 60:21;]
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Go figure, yah always learn yah yada
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Genesis = Chicken before eggs = Gospel before works(Law)
Johann
Well-Known Member
...and works AFTER regeneration.
J.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Did you understand Post 325
Absolutely - just as you quoted from Ephesians
What does this tell us then in the LIGHT of the Sabbath Rest of Elohim ???
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Of course you meant ""Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved" not ""Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and he shall be saved". LOL!
Johann
Well-Known Member
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
I would suggest backwards is thinking we have to obey first that which, as God said, our natural minds find as foolishness;the things of God.
Grace, faith, walking in the spirit. That's what God described as the order of things.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
We're talking about he, the thief on the cross. He who mocked Jesus then had a change of heart and believed in Jesus. And he was saved by Jesus right there on his own cross .
No immersion baptism. Saved by Jesus' grace.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I believe Adam and Eve were living in a state of Grace because they kept God's commandments.
Until they sinned and the law cam crashing down on them.
First they tried to justify themselves. Then they accused each other.
And Adam didn't listen to God.
And Eve coveted the fruit.
You see a theme here?
Fist commandment.. they listened to the snake rather than God.
2nd commandment .. The snake was in the tree like an asheroth an idol.
3rd commandment.. something about adding to or taking from God's word. She added to the commandment touching.
God never said anything about touching the fruit. He said don't eat it. This would be taking the Lord's name in vain by not heeding what was actually said.
4th commandment.. Somewhere between the 6th day and the 1st day, this all happened with one bite. While the Master was away.
God had finished his work and was going to his resting place. And on the 1st day of the week He found Mary Magdalene, I mean Eve in the garden.
5th commandment .. they niether honored their Father or mother.. Creator of heaven and earth and Adam and Eve.
I'm not sure exactly how mom fits in, but God does on occasion represent himself as a mother. The characteristics perhaps? Or maybe it's wisdom.
6th commandment.. Seems to me there was a whole lot of hating going on in the garden at the time. And Jesus says hating is as bad as murder.
7th commandment... They took what didn't belong to them.
8th commandment ... Adam and Eve were God's family, but they chose to walk away and cling to another. They did this act while they were still under grace.
9th commandment .. This one makes me really think... the snake said nothing in it's defence. Was it really a snake or an idol/image they had made? And according to the law it takes two witnesses to condemn someone. And Adam and Eve (Annanias and Sapphira) conspired against him/it.
Was Eve truly deceived?
And 10th commandment ... They coveted what the tree of knowledge could grant them without God.
But prior to this they were walking in the law of Liberty.
Because the condemnation of God's laws had no power over them unless they were broken.
They had dominion over sin as long as they walked in God's word. But when they disregarded His laws (all of them by the way)
Then sin had dominion over them by the law.
If you don't speed, you won't get a speeding ticket. (Law of Liberty) But if you do speed, you get a ticket and a fine. (Law of condemnation)
Now we, Adam and Eve have been redeemed from the condemnation of the law. We are back in the land of Grace and the law of Liberty.
So what about the fourth commandment?
As the OT is a type of the NT. And what we understand spiritually now that we are reconciled with God and His Spirit,
The Sabbath is more that just one material day that God gave material Israel to keep.
The Master of the house is still away, and we son't know when He will be returning.
But we do know, or should know, that while he is away he has given us his Spirit, His Rest, and His Peace until his return.
This sounds like to me A VERY Long Day of Grace. And we should keep whatever time we have before He returns, Holy.
God gave us His Sabbath until he returns.
Israel needed a weekly reminder, we have received an eternal one.
Daily even.. because we forget a lot.
Hugs
Until they sinned and the law cam crashing down on them.
First they tried to justify themselves. Then they accused each other.
And Adam didn't listen to God.
And Eve coveted the fruit.
You see a theme here?
Fist commandment.. they listened to the snake rather than God.
2nd commandment .. The snake was in the tree like an asheroth an idol.
3rd commandment.. something about adding to or taking from God's word. She added to the commandment touching.
God never said anything about touching the fruit. He said don't eat it. This would be taking the Lord's name in vain by not heeding what was actually said.
4th commandment.. Somewhere between the 6th day and the 1st day, this all happened with one bite. While the Master was away.
God had finished his work and was going to his resting place. And on the 1st day of the week He found Mary Magdalene, I mean Eve in the garden.
5th commandment .. they niether honored their Father or mother.. Creator of heaven and earth and Adam and Eve.
I'm not sure exactly how mom fits in, but God does on occasion represent himself as a mother. The characteristics perhaps? Or maybe it's wisdom.
6th commandment.. Seems to me there was a whole lot of hating going on in the garden at the time. And Jesus says hating is as bad as murder.
7th commandment... They took what didn't belong to them.
8th commandment ... Adam and Eve were God's family, but they chose to walk away and cling to another. They did this act while they were still under grace.
9th commandment .. This one makes me really think... the snake said nothing in it's defence. Was it really a snake or an idol/image they had made? And according to the law it takes two witnesses to condemn someone. And Adam and Eve (Annanias and Sapphira) conspired against him/it.
Was Eve truly deceived?
And 10th commandment ... They coveted what the tree of knowledge could grant them without God.
But prior to this they were walking in the law of Liberty.
Because the condemnation of God's laws had no power over them unless they were broken.
They had dominion over sin as long as they walked in God's word. But when they disregarded His laws (all of them by the way)
Then sin had dominion over them by the law.
If you don't speed, you won't get a speeding ticket. (Law of Liberty) But if you do speed, you get a ticket and a fine. (Law of condemnation)
Now we, Adam and Eve have been redeemed from the condemnation of the law. We are back in the land of Grace and the law of Liberty.
So what about the fourth commandment?
As the OT is a type of the NT. And what we understand spiritually now that we are reconciled with God and His Spirit,
The Sabbath is more that just one material day that God gave material Israel to keep.
The Master of the house is still away, and we son't know when He will be returning.
But we do know, or should know, that while he is away he has given us his Spirit, His Rest, and His Peace until his return.
This sounds like to me A VERY Long Day of Grace. And we should keep whatever time we have before He returns, Holy.
God gave us His Sabbath until he returns.
Israel needed a weekly reminder, we have received an eternal one.
Daily even.. because we forget a lot.
Hugs
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.” - Exodus 35:1-3
In the Volume of the Book it is written of ME - Lo, I come to do your will. - Hebrew 10:7
Johann
Well-Known Member
Show me, in Scriptures, that we are to observe the Shabbat/Sabbaths--I am not a Jew brother--and many isms and schisms in the soma of Christ re this very topic.
To whom did Moshe talk to? YisraEl, yes? And the zarim among them had to be circumcised or proselytized to be recognized as YisraEl-ites, as you might be well aware of....
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Commandment Honor your Father and Mother
Concerning Adam & Eve = God is their Father and Earth is their Mother from where their bodies were made = Dust of the Earth
They violated the Commandment which came from the Father and pertained to the Mother - that which was of the Earth - Forbidden Fruit.
So they disobeyed their Father's Word and their Mother's Nourishment since they could of eaten from the Tree of Life but chose not to.
"Jerusalem Above is the Mother of us all" - The Tree of Life is in Heavenly Jerusalem.
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Yes! That's what ONE scripture says. Ignor the rest that add more. Erase the rest of the scriptures that say something additional is required. Goodbye, you don't know what you're talking about.
