The Torah Has Not Been Abolished

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justbyfaith

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Lol!!!! You're out of control and very immature. No need for your asinine comment above, but having no self control you just had to go there.

I showed you your error, and the true biblical sense of the text you misused.

Time to file you away, I don't have time for anymore of your callow foolishness. Good bye! :)
That one convicted you; as evidenced by the fact of your lol.

You showed me nothing; there is no error on my part.

Have a good life.
 

Heart2Soul

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(A hypothetical on going conversation with a stranger):
Yes! But first, you must find an animal sacrifice, without blemish, take it to Jerusalem and .....oops!
Oh no!!.... No Temple!!
Oh well, that's another year of life, of many years, in which you DON'T have forgiveness from God.
.
So then, what's this I hear about Jesus, being the Messiah, The Lamb of God, who TAKES AWAY the sin of the world?
Hmmm...God offered a Sacrifice?? Who???
Do you really mean, that God Himself...offered a Sacrifice... for US, everyone?
Yes! His only begotten Son!
.
What is that all about anyways?
Well, it goes like this: God's eternal Son came down from Heaven, became flesh, but they killed Him. Ironic as it may seem, we can truly Thank God...
literally!
For without His Sacrifice of His Son Jesus, no one could be saved!
You can Believe it and Be SAVED, or leave it, and go find yourself a temple in Jerusalem, but good luck with that! It ain't going to happen!!

From what I read in the bible, through Jesus ONLY, God the Father is making Temples out of all those that believe in his Son, and get this... Both God the Father and the Son then come and make their dwelling place with THEM, forever... Yes it's true!
But ONLY in those who believe in His Son, the Messiah and the only Savior, The Lord Jesus Christ!
It was a pun...I had posted about The Law of Moses containing over 600 laws to live by and Preacher4Truth asked if I was wearing my tallit when writing it and if not I have broken the law....lol
 
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justbyfaith

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Lol!!!! You're out of control and very immature. No need for your asinine comment above, but having no self control you just had to go there.

I showed you your error, and the true biblical sense of the text you misused.

Time to file you away, I don't have time for anymore of your callow foolishness. Good bye! :)
What were the other passages you mentioned?

You have opportunity to vindicate yourself; if the other passages can show that mockery isn't a sin.
 
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Enoch111

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That form of righteousness falls very far short of The Righteousness of Christ, of which is GIFTED to every believer through faith. Mat. 5:20.
Without His Righteousness, no one shall enter into the KoG. Hence Rom. 8:9
There are two kinds of righteousness:

(1) that which is imputed, being the perfect righteousness of Christ to those who believe.

(2) Then there is practical righteousness, where love is the fulfilling of the Law. So without practical righteousness we cannot say we are living righteously. This also includes good works, which God has ordained for those who have believed.

ROMANS 13 -- PRACTICAL RIGHTEOUSNESS
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 

SovereignGrace

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Sackcloth-N-Ashes?

1.jpg
 

Earburner

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It was a pun...I had posted about The Law of Moses containing over 600 laws to live by and Preacher4Truth asked if I was wearing my tallit when writing it and if not I have broken the law....lol
And mine was a hypothetical response to your pun, magnified in truth.
I guess we should stay on topic, and argue why some people feel the need for both Jesus and the Law, for God's FREE Gift of salvation, through faith
In any event in my life, I've never felt that I had to work for a free gift! How about you?
 

cgneustar

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You side stepped what I asked of you in Mat. 5:19-20. Please go back to it (today at 4:26 pm), and be direct in your answer.
How is it, according to Jesus, that BOTH the "Law Breakers"-least, and the "Law Keepers"-great, ARE IN the KoG together?
See Mat. 5:20 for your answer.

Because under the 1,000 year rulership sinners will still exist, and in that time those who teach that the least of the commands of the Torah do not need to obeyed will be called least in the kingdom of the Messiah, hence,

No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isaiah 65:20

So if those who teach that the least of the commands of the Torah do not need to obeyed, where does that leave you people teaching that the entire Torah is discarded? I will give you a clue, "depart from me, you workers of torahlessness".
 

cgneustar

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Absolutely not! Its far greater than that!!
Even The righteousness of the Law FALLS SHORT of The Righteousness of Christ!!
Why?
Ans. ONLY He has fulfilled the Law.
You have not, and you shall not!!

For in order for YOU (or I) to do so, we must keep the WHOLE LAW....without error!!
Please tell me, and all here, who it is that has kept the whole Law, verbatim!!
Except naming Jesus, YOU CAN'T!!

That is a lie, for Abraham and other men of God were commended for obeying the Torah perfectly. Just because you were a Torah breaker before does not mean it is impossible to stop being a Torah breaker going forward, you just don't want to. We are all commanded to obey the Torah, per the words of the Messiah himself. And those who refuse to will be cast out. This is the truth. Either you believe the truth, or you do not. Either you obey the Torah, or you do not, which is torahlessness.
 

Heart2Soul

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And mine was a hypothetical response to your pun, magnified in truth.
I guess we should stay on topic, and argue why some people feel the need for both Jesus and the Law, for God's FREE Gift of salvation, through faith
In any event in my life, I've never felt that I had to work for a free gift! How about you?
Lol...absolutely. Right, it changes the definition of "free" if I have to work for it!
 

Earburner

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1. That is a lie, for Abraham and other men of God were commended for obeying the Torah perfectly.
2. Just because you were a Torah breaker before does not mean it is impossible to stop being a Torah breaker going forward, you just don't want to.
3. We are all commanded to obey the Torah, per the words of the Messiah himself.
4. And those who refuse to will be cast out.
5. This is the truth.
6. Either you believe the truth, or you do not.
7. Either you obey the Torah, or you do not,
8. which is torahlessness.
NT scripture says that YOU LIE!

1. Rom. 4[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[9] Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
2. Don't need to KEEP the Law- Mat. 5:19-20. The Righteousness of God IN JESUS exceeds "the righteousness of the Law".
3. For reasons of benefit in this life of our flesh ONLY! "The righteousness of the Law" cannot grant to anyone the GIFT of Eternal Life!
4. Wrong! It's those who don't do "the work of God", which is to believe in His Son, whom He has sent.
John 6[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
5. No! ONLY Jesus HIMSELF is THE Truth!
John 14, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
6. Yes! I believe IN Jesus, ONLY!!
7. See #6
8. Not lawlessness, but rather, through belief in Him, He GIVES, and we RECEIVE His LIFE, which is NEW life!!
John 1[11] He came unto his own, and his own [Jews] received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power [authority/privilege] to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
.
HAVE YOU been Born Again of His Holy Spirit?
If not, then for all of your religiosity, you have not entered into the KoG, NOW or ever!!
John 3:3-8.
 

cgneustar

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NT scripture says that YOU LIE!

1. Rom. 4[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[9] Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
2. Don't need to KEEP the Law- Mat. 5:19-20. The Righteousness of God IN JESUS exceeds "the righteousness of the Law".
3. For reasons of benefit in this life of our flesh ONLY! "The righteousness of the Law" cannot grant to anyone the GIFT of Eternal Life!
4. Wrong! It's those who don't do "the work of God", which is to believe in His Son, whom He has sent.
John 6[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
5. No! ONLY Jesus HIMSELF is THE Truth!
John 14, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
6. Yes! I believe IN Jesus, ONLY!!
7. See #6
8. Not lawlessness, but rather, through belief in Him, He GIVES, and we RECEIVE His LIFE, which is NEW life!!
John 1[11] He came unto his own, and his own [Jews] received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power [authority/privilege] to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
.
HAVE YOU been Born Again of His Holy Spirit?
If not, then for all of your religiosity, you have not entered into the KoG, NOW or ever!!
John 3:3-8.

Discarding the Torah is not exceeding the righteousness of the Torah, it is lawlessness. Even Abraham, who was commended for believing and was imputed with righteousness, obeyed the Torah, hence, "And Abraham obeyed my Torah", before it was given in written form to Moses. Belief must then accompany obedience, which is "righteousness", otherwise it is no righteousness at all, but mere belief, which is what demons and fallen angels, have, mere belief. You people deceive yourselves, and refuse to listen and obey, all to your own demise. You hate the truth, you hate the commands of God, and that is why you people will be thrown alive into aeonial fire at the second coming of the Messiah.
 

Earburner

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Discarding the Torah is not exceeding the righteousness of the Torah, it is lawlessness. Even Abraham, who was commended for believing and was imputed with righteousness, obeyed the Torah, hence, "And Abraham obeyed my Torah", before it was given in written form to Moses. Belief must then accompany obedience, which is "righteousness", otherwise it is no righteousness at all, but mere belief, which is what demons and fallen angels, have, mere belief. You people deceive yourselves, and refuse to listen and obey, all to your own demise. You hate the truth, you hate the commands of God, and that is why you people will be thrown alive into aeonial fire at the second coming of the Messiah.
You don't understand!!
The R-ighteousness of Christ EXCEEDS
"the r-ighteousness of the Law", AND also NEGATES all un-righteousness committed against the Law. See Mat. 5:19-20.
.
It's called *GOD'S GRACE!!
(I am *shouting because I am told to do that),
Zech. 4[6] Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by might, [human persuasion]
nor by power, [religious authority]
but [rather] by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
[7] Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
 

Earburner

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^ to clarify:
[7] Who art thou, O great mountain [Israel]? before Zerubbabel, thou [Israel] shall become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone [Jesus] thereof
with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it [Israel].
 

Earburner

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^ Further more: a "plain" is a level playing field (in our words). Also "equality". Again, see Mat. 5:19-20.
 

justbyfaith

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This is what the word of God says:

Rom 6:14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 7:4, Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Gal 2:19, For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Eph 2:15, Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16, And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Col 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Heb 7:18, For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


More comprehensively:

Rom 7:1, Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2, For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3, So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4, Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5, For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

It is not that the law has been abolished per se; but it is that the equivalent of this has taken place, in that we are forgiven of our sins and therefore there is no more condemnation because of the law for those of us who are born again. We have died and therefore the jurisdiction that our old husband (the law) had over us is no longer valid, we are free to be married to a new husband, Christ; who gives us victory over sin at its core rather than in the outward ritualistic situation that the law demands of us.
 

cgneustar

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You don't understand!!
The R-ighteousness of Christ EXCEEDS
"the r-ighteousness of the Law", AND also NEGATES all un-righteousness committed against the Law. See Mat. 5:19-20.
.
It's called *GOD'S GRACE!!
(I am *shouting because I am told to do that),
Zech. 4[6] Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by might, [human persuasion]
nor by power, [religious authority]
but [rather] by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
[7] Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

The righteousness of the Messiah certainly exceeds the righteousness of the Torah, because he OBEYED the Torah, and because he fulfilled the realities that the Torah foreshadowed. Whereas you people only believe in the Messiah, yet discard the Torah, which is lawlessness, which is contrary to what the Messiah taught, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "depart from me you workers of torahlessness". You cannot discard a Torah of sin on an earth where sin still exists. Why is this so difficult to understand?
 

Earburner

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The righteousness of the Messiah certainly exceeds the righteousness of the Torah, because he OBEYED the Torah, and because he fulfilled the realities that the Torah foreshadowed. Whereas you people only believe in the Messiah, yet discard the Torah, which is lawlessness, which is contrary to what the Messiah taught, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "depart from me you workers of torahlessness". You cannot discard a Torah of sin on an earth where sin still exists. Why is this so difficult to understand?
YOU ARE NOT hearing WHAT the Messiah said!!
John 6[
29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God [Himself], that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.[Who is Jesus, the Messiah].
.
THAT'S IT!!
THAT is all that we must DO, to BE SAVED!!
Nothing more!!