The tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

[Aunty Jane]

My signature says:
"All that is knowable is always known by God"
and the follow on from that is
"If He doesn't always know all that is knowable then he isn't God."

And I will find that in the book of Stumpmaster 1:1-2...will I?

Eph 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, (4) just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, (5) having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (6) to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

I don't think you have a clue what that actually means.....but carry on....

Act 15:18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works.

Isa 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, (10) Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Yes I guess he would be well aware of all his works.....he just might not be aware of all of ours unless you think he's got nothing better to do? His declaring "the end from the beginning" is saying what he says in Isaiah 55:11...
"So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do."
He has a purpose not a plan.....what he purposes in the beginning will be realized in the end, and in the middle he will use human choices to teach lessons, and he will adjust his actions in response to theirs.

Divine Foreknowledge of Adam and Eve's disobedience did not cause it, just the same as Divine Foreknowledge of every detail of everyone's existence doesn't predetermine their every thought, word, and deed.

God does not "cause" any wicked activity. A knowledge of evil was chosen in direct disobedience to God's stated command....and the humans have 'reaped what they have sown' ever since.....but are humans today any the wiser for all these lessons down through history?
The fact that Christ's return as judge was to be "just like the days of Noah".....then apparently not. The message is being delivered as per Jesus' instruction in Matthew 28:19-20, (and Matthew 24:14) but 'just like the days of Noah'.....who is listening?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The fact is word Nephilim does not appear in my English Bible. I neither speak or read in the Hebrews language of 4-5 centuries ago.

Nephilim (/ˈnɛfɪˌlɪm/; Hebrew: נְפִילִים Nəfīlīm) meaning LARGE and STRONG humans.

In my English Bible, Nephilim is transliterated as a GIANT, meaning LARGE and STRONG humans.

My English Bible speaking of Giants, describes the Giants as Large and Strong.

I am comfortable with the transliteration.

OK..... I have looked this up in the Tanakh as well as Strongs and this Hebrew word "nāp̄îl" appears only twice in the whole Bible. Both refer to the Nephilim...of Noah's day.

" nᵉphîyl, nef-eel'; or נְפִל nᵉphil; from H5307; properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:—giant."
So the primary meaning is that of a giant bully or tyrant who causes others to fall. That aptly describes the Nephilim....who were not just a few individuals but a race of freakish humans spawned by rebel angels. The sons of Anak were just tall.....but they were fully human, not the product of an unnatural union of angels and human women.

I looked it up in several modern English translations and all of them bar the KJV called them "Nephilim" not just "giants".
The Jewish Tanakh calls them "Nephilim". Did you ever hear of Goliath being called Nephilim? He was from all reports over 9 ft tall!

Already gave you the express Scripture, that places ANAK descended from Giants, which in Hebrew is called Nephilim.

It was the faithless Israelite spies who said that...not God. They were looking for an excuse not to go up against their scary enemies. Only Joshua and Caleb relied on Jehovah for the victory......and only Joshua and Caleb, out of all the Israelites who left Egypt, actually entered the Promised Land.

Well, I do not believe your claim. You have proved yourself in error.
You have Confused “Noah and Moses”.

Sorry...what???? Both Genesis and Numbers (the only two places in the OT where the Nephilim are mentioned) were both written by Moses. Where have you been....? Perhaps you need to read the accounts again to refresh your memory...?

The Flood occurred in Noah’s day. The Flood had been over for hundreds of years in Moses Day.

Seriously? You think this special word used only twice in the whole Bible was simply talking about tall men, or were both references to the Nephilim who were spawned by rebel angels? If "every breathing thing perished" in the flood except those on the ark, as Moses reported, (not Noah) how were there Nephilim still alive in Moses' day.....c'mon, you are not making a lot of sense here....

 

[Taken]

OK..... I have looked this up in the Tanakh as well as Strongs and this Hebrew word "nāp̄îl" appears only twice in the whole Bible. Both refer to the Nephilim...of Noah's day.

Do not agree with you.
Not debating with you.
OP is Tree of Good and Evil, not flood, not giants.

Noah’s Day...Giants before the flood ...Gen 6:4
Mose’s Day...Giants after the flood ... Joshua 13:12

“How” the Giants were after the flood already said; is speculation.
Speculation is NOT a fact.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do not agree with you.

Not asking you to agree with me....but both of us have to agree with God's word, don't we?

The clear statement in Genesis 7:21-23 says..."So all living creatures that were moving on the earth perished—the flying creatures, the domestic animals, the wild animals, the swarming creatures, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 So He wiped every living thing from the surface of the earth, including man, animals, creeping animals, and the flying creatures of the sky. They were all wiped off the earth; only Noah and those with him in the ark survived."

There it is.....unequivocal....nothing survived the flood except what was in the ark with Noah.....you can deny that if you wish, but you are not disagreeing with me.....you are contradicting God's word.

 

[Stumpmaster]

And I will find that in the book of Stumpmaster 1:1-2...will I?

Yes, under the heading OMNISCIENCE.

 

[Taken]

Not asking you to agree with me....but both of us have to agree with God's word, don't we?

The clear statement in Genesis 7:21-23 says..."So all living creatures that were moving on the earth perished—the flying creatures, the domestic animals, the wild animals, the swarming creatures, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 So He wiped every living thing from the surface of the earth, including man, animals, creeping animals, and the flying creatures of the sky. They were all wiped off the earth; only Noah and those with him in the ark survived."

There it is.....unequivocal....nothing survived the flood except what was in the ark with Noah.....you can deny that if you wish, but you are not disagreeing with me.....you are contradicting God's word.

Did I once deny any PERSON survived the FLOOD except the persons I expressly identified...Noah’s family, Noah, his wife, his three son, his three daughter in laws?
No, I did not deny. So why are you making such an accusation?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Did I once deny any PERSON survived the FLOOD except the persons I expressly identified...Noah’s family, Noah, his wife, his three son, his three daughter in laws?
No, I did not deny. So why are you making such an accusation?

So, how are you inferring that the Nephilim somehow survived the flood to be around in the days of Moses?

The sons of Anak were not Nephilim, but were compared with them in the minds of the faithless spies....

Are you moving the goalposts now?

 

[Curtis]

ok, just so i am not misunderstood, what i am about to say is not truth or facts or anything, ok, it is just another way to perceive the passage, that being that "tree" has a symbolic meaning that is defined elsewhere in Scripture, right, you already know what "tree" means even, basically, so contemplate that there was no literal tree, and the same thing with "fruit," there was no literal fruit, and you already know what fruit means too, so ID "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" and what its "fruit" is imo, and the answer to your Q maybe becomes a little clearer, that being imo "yes," which doesn't help much i guess right.

and this is a particularly...poignant example, bc we are literally being asked to eat the fruit from the tree in replying to your Q imo, not sure if this is clear yet tho. If i answer "good" or "evil" i have just "eaten" from the tree, imo. Well i prolly already ate in my heart in that case but nevermind

Yes it was a literal tree. Scripture says Eve saw that the fruit from the tree was good for food, and then ate of it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes it was a literal tree. Scripture says Eve saw that the fruit from the tree was good for food, and then ate of it.

so go with that then, if you like
but fwiw "tree" is defined elsewhere in Scripture anyway, whenever

and i dont mean to be like dismissive or whatever? But see that total confidence thing in which you made statements that you cannot possibly really know for sure about? so, that

 

[Curtis]

so go with that then, if you like
but fwiw "tree" is defined elsewhere in Scripture anyway, whenever

and i dont mean to be like dismissive or whatever? But see that total confidence thing in which you made statements that you cannot possibly really know for sure about? so, that

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Also the tree of life was one of the literal trees with literal fruit, that was removed from Eden so Adam couldn’t eat it and live forever, shows up again on the new earth:

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

FYI the serpent seed doctrine is wrong, the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not Satan.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, under the heading OMNISCIENCE.

Jehovah is indeed "all knowing"....but what he chooses to know may not be what we had for breakfast of what our Uncle Charlie was doing on his vacation last summer....that stuff is for FaceBook.
Omniscience is God knowing what he needs to know and IF he needs to know it. The whole Bible is the story of God reacting to the decisions of his children...he does not control their decisions or their actions, but simply responds to them according to his will.

Some people believe that God caused the birth of every individual and has their lives all mapped out in advance......sorry but no one's life is predestined unless they are an important part of God's purpose.

 

[bbyrd009]

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Also the tree of life was one of the literal trees with literal fruit, that was removed from Eden so Adam couldn’t eat it and live forever, shows up again on the new earth:

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

FYI the serpent seed doctrine is wrong, the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not Satan.

hey, so go with that if you like, but i would remem that wisdom is hidden from the wise, and most all of those terms, "fruit, tree, food" etc are defined elsewhere

anyway, point being maybe keep an open mind there eh, you never know

FYI the serpent seed doctrine is wrong, the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not Satan.

i thot "serpent seed" had something to do with Cain being Black? Ha but tbh i dont pay much attention to any of that anyway
best o' luck to ya

He who says that he knows anything, don't
.

which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month

but id def be interested if you could name all 12 fruits!
and werent there 13 months then?

which of course there are now, too; really a quite amazing story as to how our 13 month lunar cycle was changed, times and days, basically by force/edict

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Matthew 7:17-19
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Genesis 2:9
[9] And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:5-6
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. [6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ....a good tree or an evil tree? The tree grew fruit because Adam and Eve ate of it. Was the fruit from the tree...evil fruit or good fruit?

The fruit tree that is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the scriptures was just a fruit tree like any other fruit tree. The tree wasn't a special tree with some kind of magical properties. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was just a tree that the True God YHWH invested with symbolic meaning.
Many religious leaders and religious scholars have attempted to explain the prohibited fruit in a variety of ways: as a symbol of sexual intercourse, represented by an “apple”; as standing for the mere awareness of right and wrong; and as the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity and also through experience, which knowledge can be put to a good or a bad use. But the Creator’s command to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth” at Genesis 1:28 shows that sexual intercourse must be rejected as being what the tree’s fruit represented, for in what other way could procreation and mankind multiply and fill the Earth? The mere ability to recognize or be aware of right and wrong certainly can't be meant, for obedience to God’s command required of sinless man that he be able to exercise such moral discrimination. Nor could the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity be meant, for it would not be sin on man’s part to reach this state, nor would his Creator logically obligate him to remain in an immature state.
It's apparent, to me anyway, that the tree of the knowledge of good and bad symbolized the divine right or prerogative, which man’s Creator retains, to designate to his creatures what is “good” and what is “bad,” after that requiring the practice of that which is declared good and the abstention from that which is pronounced bad in order to remain approved by God as Sovereign Ruler. Both the prohibition and the subsequent pronouncement of the sentence passed upon the disobedient pair emphasize the fact that it was the act of disobedience in eating the prohibited fruit that constituted the original sin. Genesis 3:3.

Some modern critics may balk at the very simplicity of the account in Eden this way, but it should be obvious that the actual circumstances made a simple test most fitting. The life of the newly created man and woman was simple, not complicated and burdened with all the complex problems, predicaments, and perplexity that disobedience to God has since brought to the human race. In spite of that, for all its simplicity, the test in a brief and clear manner expresses the universal truth of God’s sovereignty as well as man’s dependence upon God and his duty toward God. And it must be said that, while simple, the account of Eden’s events presents matters on an infinitely higher level than those theories that would place man’s start, not in a garden, but in a cave, representing him as both crudely ignorant and without moral sense. The simplicity of the test in Eden illustrates the principle stated many centuries later by God’s Son, that “the person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.” Luke 16:10.

 

[bbyrd009]

The fruit tree that is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the scriptures was just a fruit tree like any other fruit tree. The tree wasn't a special tree with some kind of magical properties. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was just a tree that the True God YHWH invested with symbolic meaning.
Many religious leaders and religious scholars have attempted to explain the prohibited fruit in a variety of ways: as a symbol of sexual intercourse, represented by an “apple”; as standing for the mere awareness of right and wrong; and as the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity and also through experience, which knowledge can be put to a good or a bad use

wow, i had no idea that sussing out the meaning of those was so um problematic. I am nonplussed.

How do we come to know the diff in right and wrong iyo, Barney? If i may impose upon you here
just like generally speaking, i mean

The mere ability to recognize or be aware of right and wrong certainly can't be meant, for obedience to God’s command required of sinless man that he be able to exercise such moral discrimination

hmm. ill get back to you on this one; not sure moral discrimination was required there? Or any kind of discrimination for that matter; “Dont do this or you will die.”

Nor could the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity be meant, for it would not be sin on man’s part to reach this state, nor would his Creator logically obligate him to remain in an immature state

become like a little child so i dunno b

It's apparent, to me anyway, that the tree of the knowledge of good and bad symbolized the divine right or prerogative, which man’s Creator retains, to designate to his creatures what is “good” and what is “bad,” after that requiring the practice of that which is declared good and the abstention from that which is pronounced bad in order to remain approved by God as Sovereign Ruler

well here’s the thing though; Yah went looking for A&E even after they had eaten the fruit, right? And like not in order to punish them or anything, or at least that is not the sense one gets from the text?

 

[bbyrd009]

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil

so, a tacit admission that the two latter trees were not visible, nor were they good for literal food

 

[Curtis]

so, a tacit admission that the two latter trees were not visible, nor were they good for literal food

All trees in the garden were literal and visible before they ate the fruit of the forbidden tree.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

bbyrd009 said:
How do we come to know the diff in right and wrong iyo, Barney? If i may impose upon you here [/Quote\]

Well bbyrd009 we who are the offspring of Adam and Eve were born in sin. Adam was created and he wasn't created with a sinful nature plus he was created a full grown man. We who are Adams offspring were brought into existence by procreation and we started out as little infant baby's. That's not true regarding Adam and Eve and there's a big difference between being born in sin and starting off in life as an infant and God creating the first human full grown and the first human created without having sin in the flesh. God created the first human with the ability to understand him when God spoke to him. The first humans Adam and Eve knew it was wrong to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The fact that the serpent questioned Eve about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and her response shows she understood that it was wrong or forbidden for her to eat the fruit of that tree.
The question a person should ask oneself is why would God have told Adam that he would die if he ate the fruit from that particular tree if Adam was so ignorant he wouldn't even understand what God said to him. Why would God say that to Adam if it was beyond his comprehension. Would God command someone to not do something if God knew it was beyond that person to even understand what God was telling that person not to do?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The sons of Anak were not Nephilim, but were compared with them in the minds of the faithless spies....

“the minds of the faithless spies” could you tell me where the verse is that compares them? Makes me think of
Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: [5] To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

“the minds of the faithless spies”
Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

“the minds of the faithless spies” could you tell me where the verse is that compares them? Makes me think of
Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: [5] To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

“the minds of the faithless spies”
Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

?

Numbers 13:33

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

“the minds of the faithless spies” could you tell me where the verse is that compares them? Makes me think of
Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: [5] To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

“the minds of the faithless spies”
Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

?

The Nephilim were the offspring of the sons of God who materialized into what looked like human men and mated with the daughters of men. They were said to be the mighty ones of old and the men of fame. The point is the Nephilim were not the angels that materialized and mated with the daughters of men. The sons of God that were angels who materialized into what looked like human men, when th flood happened materialized back to angels and went back into heaven but were not allowed to be in their original positions in heaven before they materialized and mated with the daughters of men. They became Satan's demons. They were never allowed to materialize again and they were like Satan having no spiritual light from God.