The tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

[bbyrd009]

All trees in the garden were literal and visible before they ate the fruit of the forbidden tree.

ah, the appearances, ya. So let it be like that for now, but maybe keep an open mind? Bc im pretty sure we all ate the same fruit, fwiw

 

[Aunty Jane]

“the minds of the faithless spies” could you tell me where the verse is that compares them? Makes me think of
Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: [5] To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Yes, there were some who had slipped into the congregations who had ulterior motives and that was to undermine the freedom of those who were of the nations in not having to observe Jewish Law. They wanted to bring Gentile believers under a law that was no longer binding on Christ’s disciples, the majority of whom would end up being Gentiles.

But the faithless spies were showing that they were cowards. Imagine seeing the miracle of the manna every day and water issuing from rock to feed and water such a large nation in the harsh wilderness. The Ten plagues on Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea....the victory over mighty nations stronger and more powerful militarily than they were.....and yet the spies who returned from looking over the land that God promised them, wilted at the sight of the Anakim. Out of the 12, only Joshua and Caleb had confidence in Jehovah. Just as the shepherd boy David later had confidence in his God against the giant Goliath.

“the minds of the faithless spies”
Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Yes, Rahab is an example of how Jehovah rewards those who do good deeds to his people. She put her own life at risk to save the spies whom she hid. Her reward was when the city fell, her whole family were spared because she followed through on their instructions to place a red chord out of the window.

So why did this woman risk her life in this way? She had heard of Jehovah and his mighty acts in delivering his people from Egypt, and the victories he had given them over their enemies. She expressed faith in Israel’s God and had proven her faith with actions.

Ten of the twelve spies sent out into the land, had less faith than this prostitute. (Joshua 2:1-21; Numbers 13:25-33; Numbers 14:26-30) They lost their lives through disobedience, she gained hers by doing exactly what she was told to do.

There is the lesson for us....right from the beginning, all Jehovah has asked of his human children was to obey him.....not deviating to the right or to the left, but simply to do as he instructs us....no more, no less.

Do we see where many have failed him in this? Doing what they are told not to do.....and not doing what God told them to do....we humans are apparently really bad at learning the lessons from the past, and we have therefore been doomed to repeat them.

Only those “doing the will of the Father” will survive the end of this world system’s end, which we see rapidly disintegrating before our eyes. The judgment, I believe, is not far away. (Matthew 7:21-23)

God is giving us all a wake up call....but are we listening? Soon it will be too late, as it was for the people of Noah’s day. (Matthew 24:37-39) If we are not on board the “ark” we will be perishing with those outside. So where are we? We each need to ask that question.

 

[bbyrd009]

All trees in the garden were literal and visible before they ate the fruit of the forbidden tree.

and now see, what you are currently experiencing might be deemed "the fruit of the tree of knowledge"

 

[Curtis]

Didn't Jesus destroy the moral law on the cross by His death according to Romans7:4?

No.

 

[Episkopos]

Didn't Jesus destroy the moral law on the cross by His death according to Romans7:4?

By moral law do you mean the law of righteousness? No, Jesus came to fulfill the law of righteousness and allow us to enter into the higher standard of righteousness which is IN Him. A greater law overshadows a lesser law the way the light of the Sun outshines the light of the moon and stars. Does the moon stop reflecting light? No....the Sun just shines brighter.
The power of Christ is greater than any power in the temporal world. We overcome the flesh, the world and the devil when as abide IN Him. Greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Or a damned lie, imo i would let Scripture decide

Ok now if you will carefully read this, or ignore It entirely, i do not care:
I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I am the LORD that does all this.
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

so wadr i would ask you to respond to the Scripture and nevermind me, my opinion does not matter either,
but hopefully you see that your present response is "that Scripture is not true."

So if you have some dialectic interpretation that is eluding me, i am all ears ok, but i accept the standard interp there i think, that God created evil by separating from it, or however one might like to put it.

But if you still want to believe that God does not create evil, that is ok with me ok, i don't think your motives are bad here or anything, imo you are just caught in one of many deterministic loops

how bout we stick with one hairball at a time lol, no offense.
If that is true then why would God need satan is prolly more pertinent

Oh I so wish I had time to really respond here. All I have time for right now is to say I agree because this can be seen (what you say about separation) in Genesis. There are places where something is not followed by : and God saw that it was good. And those places have to do with separations.

 

[APAK]

Didn't Jesus destroy the moral law on the cross by His death according to Romans7:4?

Yes! And we have being/been risen to the eternal light in the process to serve God as he desires in true righteousness via his Son's death and shed blood on the Cross.

We now obey the new Spirit that inhabits within us. We serve it and thus God and not any moral code or law previously laid down by God to his people that never brought true righteousness and salvation.

Welcome to this site...

 

[Jim B]

Didn't Jesus destroy the moral law on the cross by His death according to Romans7:4?

Yes He did. The moral law is not applicable to Christians, as we have accepted Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf. The moral law still applies for those who are saved.

 

[bbyrd009]

The moral law is not applicable to Christians

The moral law still applies for those who are saved

?

 

[Jim B]

?

Typo -- mea culpa. I meant to write that the moral law is not applicable to Christians, as we have accepted Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf. The moral law still applies for those who are not saved.

 

[Behold]

Didn't Jesus destroy the moral law on the cross by His death according to Romans7:4?

No.
What he did is provided this.

"Jesus has redeemed us from the CURSE of THE LAW".

 

[bbyrd009]

Typo -- mea culpa. I meant to write that the moral law is not applicable to Christians, as we have accepted Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf. The moral law still applies for those who are not saved.

ok so that clears that part up; but i still cannot fathom how you got to there tbh
but then again idk what “moral law” means anyway, i guess

 

[Jim B]

ok so that clears that part up; but i still cannot fathom how you got to there tbh
but then again idk what “moral law” means anyway, i guess

The moral law is part of the set of laws that governing thinking and behaving that were given to Moses. The remaining laws given to Moses are the ceremonial laws. There are those who believe, erroneously, that the moral laws still apply to Christians; that only the ceremonial law has been eliminated. They are wrong, since Christians are under grace, not under law.

Believe it or not, there are some who believe that the 613 moral laws of Judaism -- the mitzvot -- apply to Christians also. Really, I kid you not.

 

[bbyrd009]

The moral law is part of the set of laws that governing thinking and behaving that were given to Moses. The remaining laws given to Moses are the ceremonial laws. There are those who believe, erroneously, that the moral laws still apply to Christians; that only the ceremonial law has been eliminated. They are wrong, since Christians are under grace, not under law.

Believe it or not, there are some who believe that the 613 moral laws of Judaism -- the mitzvot -- apply to Christians also. Really, I kid you not.

the Mitzvot was given to Moses?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Was the fruit from the tree...evil fruit or good fruit?

Totally unimportant. The"tree", and it's "fruit" weren't ever the issue.

The issue was that Eve, and then Adam tossed God under the bus, in favor of satan's offer - IN SPITE of God's instruction NOT TO EAT OF THAT TREE.

 

[Jim B]

the Mitzvot was given to Moses?

There are 613 mitzvot, which are Jewish rules or commandments. They cover many issues, including instructions about food, punishments and how God should be worshipped. Jews agreed to follow these rules when they were given to Moses as part of the covenant.

 

[bbyrd009]

There are 613 mitzvot, which are Jewish rules or commandments. They cover many issues, including instructions about food, punishments and how God should be worshipped. Jews agreed to follow these rules when they were given to Moses as part of the covenant.

only thing is, i am not able to verify the underlined in the Bible?

 

[Jim B]

only thing is, i am not able to verify the underlined in the Bible?

IMHO the number 613 was compiled by someone at some point -- probably a rabbi -- but who is counting? They are considered to be all the OT law that isn't under the umbrella of sacrificial laws. And the entire law was given to Moses. Personally I don't really care about the classification other than some Christians believe that the 613 moral laws are still in effect for Christians. Sad but true.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The moral law is part of the set of laws that governing thinking and behaving that were given to Moses. The remaining laws given to Moses are the ceremonial laws. There are those who believe, erroneously, that the moral laws still apply to Christians; that only the ceremonial law has been eliminated. They are wrong, since Christians are under grace, not under law.

Believe it or not, there are some who believe that the 613 moral laws of Judaism -- the mitzvot -- apply to Christians also. Really, I kid you not.

It is true that Christians are not under the ceremonial or sacrificial parts of the law of Moses, but Jesus himself reiterated many things from the moral aspects of the law in his teachings, and the apostles also restated these things in their letters, (marriage, sexual immorality etc) so I cannot understand anyone saying that the moral laws do not apply. Even remaining wrathful with a brother was condemned by Jesus.

“Grace” is not a license to sin. OSAS is not scriptural. Christ’s sacrifice covered past sins and mistakes in judgment thereafter, but repentance is required or no forgiveness can be expected. Repentance means not repeating a past sin because you know better and can exercise self-control. (a fruit or product do God’s spirit)

If I have misunderstood your post please correct me.

 

[Jim B]

It is true that Christians are not under the ceremonial or sacrificial parts of the law of Moses, but Jesus himself reiterated many things from the moral aspects of the law in his teachings, and the apostles also restated these things in their letters, (marriage, sexual immorality etc) so I cannot understand anyone saying that the moral laws do not apply. Even remaining wrathful with a brother was condemned by Jesus.

“Grace” is not a license to sin. OSAS is not scriptural. Christ’s sacrifice covered past sins and mistakes in judgment thereafter, but repentance is required or no forgiveness can be expected. Repentance means not repeating a past sin because you know better and can exercise self-control. (a fruit or product do God’s spirit)

If I have misunderstood your post please correct me.

The law is external; the Spirit is internal. Jesus said that He would give us the Holy Spirit and that He (the Spirit) would guide us into all truth. John 16:13, "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth." We are moral because of the Holy Spirit within us, not because of a set of external laws that are impossible to keep. The principles of the moral law remain but the law itself has no authority.

I disagree with "Christ’s sacrifice covered past sins and mistakes in judgment thereafter, but repentance is required or no forgiveness can be expected". Our sins -- all of them -- are forgiven because of the price that Jesus paid on the cross. We have total forgiveness of sins because of His sacrifice.

I appreciate this discussion! It is far more reasonable than a lot of the posts I read which are "off the wall".

 

[Ziggy]

The moral law is part of the set of laws that governing thinking and behaving that were given to Moses. The remaining laws given to Moses are the ceremonial laws. There are those who believe, erroneously, that the moral laws still apply to Christians; that only the ceremonial law has been eliminated. They are wrong, since Christians are under grace, not under law.

For some reason I believe that is the route Sodom and Gomorrah took.

If moral laws do not exist then what remains is lawlessness.
There needs to be a foundation.
How can there be conviction of right or wrong if everything is covered under a blanket of grace.
We are told that God will not hold us innocent for knowing to do good and do evil.
How do we know what is good or evil with direction, rules or laws.
Your parents tell you don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat. These are moral laws which originate in the golden 10.

I don't understand how moral laws can not apply to Christians.
If we should make a mistake, or fall, or do the morally wrong thing,
we are not instantly condemned to death as was in the OT, when you broke the law you were immediately stoned without mercy.
We live under grace where we are given the opportunity for forgiveness if we confess our sins, or immorality.

Without a moral code to live by, we would become as Sodom and Gomorrah.
Look around, it's happening before our very eyes.

We don't need to carry a tablet written with these moral laws because they are already written in our hearts.
It doesn't mean we live without them, or they don't apply. On the contrary, they are embedded in our hearts and in our minds.

Grace is being able to say your sorry and receiving forgiveness. Not being condemned without mercy as it had been.

That's my 2 cents.
Hugs