The Trinity definition

[Jane_Doe22]

Why did so many disciples turn away from Jesus and stop following Him ?

Why did Jesus say unless you believe I Am you will die in your sins ?

Why did Jesus say many who call Him Lord Lord that He will say to them I never knew you ?

Why did Jesus ask His disciples who do people say that I Am ?

What does is mean that Jesus is Lord and to count the cost before following Him ?

Why did Jesus and the Apostles warn us about false christs and teachers ?

Can a false christ or god save anyone from sin ?

Its sounds like many believe that a person can believe anything they want about Jesus and do anything they want to and still be saved.

Many turn away from Christ for many reasons.

I, for one, adamantly object to the idea that a person salvation depends on their ability be able to pass your (or anyone else’s) theology test. No. Salvation is a matter or FAITH and relationship with God. No academic knowledge - don’t try to add more requirements.

 

[DNB]

Why did so many disciples turn away from Jesus and stop following Him ?

Why did Jesus say unless you believe I Am you will die in your sins ?

Why did Jesus say many who call Him Lord Lord that He will say to them I never knew you ?

Why did Jesus ask His disciples who do people say that I Am ?

What does is mean that Jesus is Lord and to count the cost before following Him ?

Why did Jesus and the Apostles warn us about false christs and teachers ?

Can a false christ or god save anyone from sin ?

Its sounds like many believe that a person can believe anything they want about Jesus and do anything they want to and still be saved.

@APAK @jaybird
Well @amadeus , I must admit that there only can be one right way to interpret God's Word, and His salvation for mankind. Many roads do not lead to Rome, for there are much more paths that lead to heresy, rather than truth. God is decisive and precise, ...and profound, in His Word. Thus, the question only lies in who has defined it correctly.

Christophany has taken his efforts in solely supplying proof-text that he feels supports his position, which are extremely dubious to begin with, but also, without taken into consideration the implications of his conclusion, ...nor does he feel that he is obligated to (he told me so on another post). This, to me, is substantial grounds to discredit his theology as the means to salvation - he devised an Atonement that doesn't expiate or propitiate anyone. God cannot act in this manner on behalf of man, in either a meaningful or judicially sound way.
Therefore amadeus, despite the fact that I agree with the basal point of your argument, I will have the audacity to say that one cannot be saved by believing in a triune God, nor a god-man messiah.

 

[DNB]

Have you then really addressed what I have written?

...I was going to say the exact same thing. No, he rarely does!

 

[ChristisGod]

Many turn away from Christ for many reasons.

I, for one, adamantly object to the idea that a person salvation depends on their ability be able to pass your (or anyone else’s) theology test. No. Salvation is a matter or FAITH and relationship with God. No academic knowledge - don’t try to add more requirements.

can a person have a relationship with someone they do not know ?

faith in who ?

what are they placing their faith in ?

what does it mean that satan disguises himself as an angel of light ?

What is the point of this warning below ?

2 Cor 11 below
I hope you will put up with me in a little foolishness. Yes, please put up with me! 2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

can a person have a relationship with someone they do not know ?

faith in who ?

what are they placing their faith in ?

what does it mean that satan disguises himself as an angel of light ?

What is the point of this warning below ?

2 Cor 11 below
I hope you will put up with me in a little foolishness. Yes, please put up with me! 2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

You confuse knowing with the heart vs head knowledge.

Head knowledge doesn’t save anybody.

 

[DNB]

can a person have a relationship with someone they do not know ?

Can you? Who do you pray to, do you have any idea, or do you just randomly pick a person, per night? Or, do you address all three every time you make a petition, or just repeat you prayers three times to each one individually?
Do you have any idea who you worship or pray to?

 

[DNB]

Many turn away from Christ for many reasons.

I, for one, adamantly object to the idea that a person salvation depends on their ability be able to pass your (or anyone else’s) theology test. No. Salvation is a matter or FAITH and relationship with God. No academic knowledge - don’t try to add more requirements.

Hi JD, you keep stressing this point without acknowledging that there does have to be some cognizance as to how the whole dynamic of God, theology and salvation works. At least to some degree, for this is why you are not a Muslim, nor Catholic, nor unitarian like myself - because of your head knowledge. I am the same way, for sure.

Now, an academic degree may not be necessary, but a systematic theology of some sort is required, otherwise one's convictions would just be haphazard and frivolous, not aligning with divine prophecy or revelation. There has to be some intelligible standard.

 

[ChristisGod]

You confuse knowing with the heart vs head knowledge.

Head knowledge doesn’t save anybody.

lets illustrate this in a practical way.

This happened to a close friend of mine in the ministry as an associate pastor.

An email was received from the senior pastor asking him to go and purchase some gift cards for the staff. So like the trusting person that he was he did just that and spent a couple grand from the churches account and emailed the "pastor" back with the confirmation and the visa card numbers.

Fast forward the next day. Pastor did you get all the visa card numbers you asked me to get?

"What gift cards " ? was his reply. I did not email you anything. Associate pastor days" yes you did and I followed through with your request. No I did not you were "scammed" deceived and someone hacked our email and you responded to someone else.

You see his faith was misplaced in a counterfeit a scammer who deceived him into thinking it was the pastor emailing Him when it was not. The same is true with a counterfeit christ and gospel that looks like the real one but it is not and your investment( money ) in this case is lost. The same holds true with the real vs the false christ. You lose your investment/salvation for its misplaced.

I can have all the faith I want in a false christ, god and gospel but there is not salvation in a counterfeit.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Can you? Who do you pray to, do you have any idea, or do you just randomly pick a person, per night? Or, do you address all three every time you make a petition, or just repeat you prayers three times to each one individually?
Do you have any idea who you worship or pray to?

The Risen Christ, God Incarnate.

next....................

 

[DNB]

lets illustrate this in a practical way.

This happened to a close friend of mine in the ministry as an associate pastor.

An email was received from the senior pastor asking him to go and purchase some gift cards for the staff. So like the trusting person that he was he did just that and spent a couple grand from the churches account and emailed the "pastor" back with the confirmation and the visa card numbers.

Fast forward the next day. Pastor did you get all the visa card numbers you asked me to get?

"What gift cards " ? was his reply. I did not email you anything. Associate pastor days" yes you did and I followed through with your request. No I did not you were "scammed" deceived and someone hacked our email and you responded to someone else.

You see his faith was misplaced in a counterfeit a scammer who deceived him into thinking it was the pastor emailing Him when it was not. The same is true with a counterfeit christ and gospel that looks like the real one but it is not and your investment( money ) in this case is lost. The same holds true with the real vs the false christ. You lose your investment/salvation for its misplaced.

I can have all the faith I want in a false christ, god and gospel but there is not salvation in a counterfeit.

hope this helps !!!

Yes, I would agree!

 

[DNB]

The Risen Christ, God Incarnate.

next....................

Yes, all three of them - unless your still using that broken calculator that they had at Nicaea?

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, all three of them - unless your still using that broken calculator that they had at Nicaea?

I'm a bible believer and do not need anything outside of Scripture to know that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Its written all over both testaments that God is Plural.

hope this helps !!!

 

[APAK]

Yes, all three of them - unless your still using that broken calculator that they had at Nicaea?

Yes, he must mean all three unless he is now straying from his own religion....he must know this...he cannot mean the Son of God ONLY, who was resurrected...that would nullify his triad, 3 person in one, nondescript god.

 

[amadeus]

@APAK @jaybird
Well @amadeus , I must admit that there only can be one right way to interpret God's Word, and His salvation for mankind. Many roads do not lead to Rome, for there are much more paths that lead to heresy, rather than truth. God is decisive and precise, ...and profound, in His Word. Thus, the question only lies in who has defined it correctly.

Christophany has taken his efforts in solely supplying proof-text that he feels supports his position, which are extremely dubious to begin with, but also, without taken into consideration the implications of his conclusion, ...nor does he feel that he is obligated to (he told me so on another post). This, to me, is substantial grounds to discredit his theology as the means to salvation - he devised an Atonement that doesn't expiate or propitiate anyone. God cannot act in this manner on behalf of man, in either a meaningful or judicially sound way.
Therefore amadeus, despite the fact that I agree with the basal point of your argument, I will have the audacity to say that one cannot be saved by believing in a triune God, nor a god-man messiah.

There is as I also believe, only one road to God, but consider just a couple of things on that. First is, how far down the right road a person has traveled [of course some may have been on the wrong road from the start.]? Some at a given moment after meeting the Master are babes in Christ and may know very little and some of what they know may be in error. Some others have served God for a long time and have matured. Not as much slack given to them by God I would hazard to say.

Second, would be what part of the Body of Christ a person is, or is to be? How skillful does a person's toes have to be in order to be a good walker? On the other hand, if a person is the hand, his fingers need a better dexterity than that of toes.

Can even a mature believer still have some errors in what he says or does or even believes? How many people, believers, have already moved from a blurred or dim or darkened vision to a "face to face" vision at any point in time? Does not God consider all of these factors more completely and with regard to any one of us than any man can do? Who but God has all the facts and is able to fairly evaluate them all about each and every one of us? Jesus, I believe, tells us about this here:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

"Much is given, much is required"! Someone who is in error certainly in that respect has "less" then 100%. Assuming that the Trinity doctrine were completely in error, before rendering a final judgement against a person espousing it, would it not be necessary to know exactly what the man knew and believed in detail and why? This is why, I believe, Jesus also said this:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Matt 7:1-3

We can and do have our own opinions and beliefs, but before we open our mouths in condemnation of another who differs, shouldn't we be absolutely that we have all of the facts about the other person and that our vision is not marred even slightly by a beam or even a mote of our own?

Then again...

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

Two things on that verse: One is who knows without a revelation from God that another person does not believe on him? Two is that the verse, to me anyway, clearly states that one who doesn't believe is already condemned. Why need we say anything at all, even if we believe the worst about the person? Is that not ultimately God's business?

What man has God appointed to condemn any other person openly to the world of men? Perhaps He has appointed some people to do that, but I have yet to meet one who satisfied me that he had been given that job by God. I could be wrong about that, but until I hear it from God, I will strive to stand back a bit... What you do, of course, is between you and God.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, he must mean all three unless he is now straying from his own religion....he must know this...he cannot mean the Son of God ONLY, who was resurrected...that would nullify his triad, 3 person in one, nondescript god.

the uni god cannot even love, that god is not love for a god alone is incapable of love for love demands another to share in that love.

Only a Plural God is Love by its very definition. Its an innate/inherent quality of the Plural God and impossible with the false uni god.

game over........................

next........................

 

[Jane_Doe22]

lets illustrate this in a practical way.

This happened to a close friend of mine in the ministry as an associate pastor.

An email was received from the senior pastor asking him to go and purchase some gift cards for the staff. So like the trusting person that he was he did just that and spent a couple grand from the churches account and emailed the "pastor" back with the confirmation and the visa card numbers.

Fast forward the next day. Pastor did you get all the visa card numbers you asked me to get?

"What gift cards " ? was his reply. I did not email you anything. Associate pastor days" yes you did and I followed through with your request. No I did not you were "scammed" deceived and someone hacked our email and you responded to someone else.

You see his faith was misplaced in a counterfeit a scammer who deceived him into thinking it was the pastor emailing Him when it was not. The same is true with a counterfeit christ and gospel that looks like the real one but it is not and your investment( money ) in this case is lost. The same holds true with the real vs the false christ. You lose your investment/salvation for its misplaced.

I can have all the faith I want in a false christ, god and gospel but there is not salvation in a counterfeit.

hope this helps !!!

Yes, I would agree!

Your entire example here is built upon a email, not a relationship. Here's an example about a relationship:

Jason is in your fantasy football league. He's a great guy, and you hang out every week talking about the game speculating the best pick for next week. He taught you how to better evaluate running backs, and makes you laugh with his jokes. He's a huge Patriots fan, and a decent grill cook. He's also great to talk to and unwind with. You have a relationship with Jason. Three years into this relationship, you find out that you were mistaken about Jason's day job- he's does health insurance, not car sales like you previous thought.

Does your mistaken fact mean that you somehow don't have any relationship with Jason at all? Or that some fake doppelganger Jason was grilling you all those hamburgers all of those years? Because that's what your argument is based on.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Hi JD, you keep stressing this point without acknowledging that there does have to be some cognizance as to how the whole dynamic of God, theology and salvation works. At least to some degree, for this is why you are not a Muslim, nor Catholic, nor unitarian like myself - because of your head knowledge. I am the same way, for sure.

Now, an academic degree may not be necessary, but a systematic theology of some sort is required, otherwise one's convictions would just be haphazard and frivolous, not aligning with divine prophecy or revelation. There has to be some intelligible standard.

Im not downplaying the importance of theology. I actually am quite passionate about the importance of theology and diligent study. I am dismissing the idea that your salvation is based on your ability to correctly answer a theology test.

 

[ChristisGod]

Your entire example here is built upon a email, not a relationship. Here's an example about a relationship:

Jason is in your fantasy football league. He's a great guy, and you hang out every week talking about the game speculating the best pick for next week. He taught you how to better evaluate running backs, and makes you laugh with his jokes. He's a huge Patriots fan, and a decent grill cook. He's also great to talk to and unwind with. You have a relationship with Jason. Three years into this relationship, you find out that you were mistaken about Jason's day job- he's does health insurance, not car sales like you previous thought.

Does your mistaken fact mean that you somehow don't have any relationship with Jason at all? Or that some fake doppelganger Jason was grilling you all those hamburgers all of those years? Because that's what your argument is based on.

not true as the 2 pastors are great friends and an email is an electronic letter. people who know people communicate via email, text etc......

and by your reasoning a person cannot have a relationship with God since you do not know Him in the flesh-personally.

do you "hang" out with God ?

have proof of that ?

maybe its just all imagined and not real.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

not true as the 2 pastors are great friends

and by your reasoning a person cannot have a relationship with God since you do not know Him in the flesh-personally.

do you "hang" out with God ?

have proof of that ?

maybe its just all imagined and not real.

Your example is entirely predicated on a false email.
My is about a relationship. Please actually address it rather than avoiding it because that would mean you're not addressing my concerns with your foundational point.

 

[101G]

not true as the 2 pastors are great friends

and by your reasoning a person cannot have a relationship with God since you do not know Him in the flesh-personally.

do you "hang" out with God ?

have proof of that ?

maybe its just all imagined and not real.

is this real... meaning a real conversation? or just my imagination on hearing this? God is REAL, and as a matter more real that us.

yes, we hang out with God all the time. do I have scripture for that? YES, Matthew 25:40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." and the King here is God.

I can't believe this. one more, question, "do you Love God?"... yes, well how? is he here to hug or as said hang out with? ANSWER, John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (THAT'S HOW ONE LOVE GOD and Hang out with him).

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"