The Trinity is a Lie

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justbyfaith

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Check out chapter 6:1
why stop at 5:20??
As I have said before, it is solid hermeneutics to understand that the context of a verse never nullifies the plain message of any singular verse.

The message that I was attempting to portray, is not in Romans 6:1; but it is in the verses previous to it. Which is why I quoted only those verses.

I assume you think that Romans 6:1 contradicts Romans 5:20-21 and that therefore Romans 5:20-21 are null and void.

This is not the case. Romans 5:20-21 stand as valid scripture; and I suggest you take them as applied to the thing that I applied them to in ther posts above, instead of going off on a tangent so that you don't even remember the point.
 

GodsGrace

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As I have said before, it is solid hermeneutics to understand that the context of a verse never nullifies the plain message of any singular verse.

The message that I was attempting to portray, is not in Romans 6:1; but it is in the verses previous to it. Which is why I quoted only those verses.

I assume you think that Romans 6:1 contradicts Romans 5:20-21 and that therefore Romans 5:20-21 are null and void.

This is not the case. Romans 5:20-21 stand as valid scripture; and I suggest you take them as applied to the thing that I applied them to in ther posts above, instead of going off on a tangent so that you don't even remember the point.
I'm sorry JBF,,,I'm a little busy with BoL right now.
I do apologize.

Hermeneiutics insists that the context be taken into account.
Just don' assume what I think about any verse.

It'll try to get back to this tomorrow...it's midnight here.
 

justbyfaith

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Hermeneiutics insists that the context be taken into account.
Nevertheless, it is a solid principle of hermeneutics that the context does not ever nullify the plain message of any singular scripture.

Every verse of scripture, therefore, stands as a bastion of truth to be believed in by us.
 

GodsGrace

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Nevertheless, it is a solid principle of hermeneutics that the context does not ever nullify the plain message of any singular scripture.

Every verse of scripture, therefore, stands as a bastion of truth to be believed in by us.
Interesting concept.
So what do YOU do with this:

Romans 5:9
Romans 13:1
Romans 9:16
 

GodsGrace

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I'm not sure what you think I need to do with these verses.

Do you think that they contradict each other?
No JBF.
You said we can take each verse on it's own value.
This is true for some verses but should not be taught as a general rule re hermeneutics.

The verses I posted cannot be understood unless in context.

That was my only point.
No need to discuss them....
 

justbyfaith

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The verses I posted cannot be understood unless in context.

The context of the verses in question can aid you in your understanding...

But I find that each one of them stands on its own as Bible truth; they can indeed be understood apart from their immediate context.
 

GodsGrace

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The context of the verses in question can aid you in your understanding...

But I find that each one of them stands on its own as Bible truth; they can indeed be understood apart from their immediate context.
Well, I'll say this:
Romans 9:16 sounds like calvinism is correct.
Romans 13:1 do you agree with our govt and do everything it says?
Romans 5:9 ?? I think I posted one of the numbers wrong...Can't check right now...

but you get the jist.
 

justbyfaith

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Romans 9:16 sounds like calvinism is correct.

Calvinism is correct to a certain degree....to the degree that it is backed up by holy scripture.

Romans 13:1 do you agree with our govt and do everything it says?

It means that we submit to magistrates (police officers). In our government, we have the ability to make our voice known politically so that we can have things the way we want them. We do still submit to those who are in authority over us, as a general rule.
 
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GodsGrace

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Calvinism is correct to a certain degree....to the degree that it is backed up by holy scripture.



It means that we submit to magistrates (police officers). In our government, we have the ability to make our voice known politically so that we can have things the way we want them. We do still submit to those who are in authority over us, as a general rule.
Oh, so you're calvinist in theology.
No wonder what you said always had a wrong sound to it.
You must know I don't agree with calvinist theology.
Now I understand you better.
 
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GodsGrace

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Calvinism is correct to a certain degree....to the degree that it is backed up by holy scripture.



It means that we submit to magistrates (police officers). In our government, we have the ability to make our voice known politically so that we can have things the way we want them. We do still submit to those who are in authority over us, as a general rule.
I gave you a like because I agree.
But what about Hitler?
Should the Germans have adhered to his beliefs?

This is a complicated subject matter, I'm really not up to it,,,
but reply if you must.
 

justbyfaith

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Oh, so you're calvinist in theology.
Not really.

But where scripture backs up their pov, who am I to argue with the holy scriptures?

However, I have contended with Calvinists in the past that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.
 

GodsGrace

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Not really.

But where scripture backs up their pov, who am I to argue with the holy scriptures?

However, I have contended with Calvinists in the past that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.
Agreed.
We have access.
But they don't believe so...
what of their theology do you agree with?
 

GodsGrace

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POTS (but not OSAS), primarily.
I kind of agree with that too but it depends on HOW one describes it.

For me OSAS means that once somebody walks down an isle and "accepts" Jesus, he believes he could live as he wants and is still saved. I've read persons saying this precise idea.

I believe in eternal salvation if one remains IN CHRIST.
The bible is clear the He is the vine and we are the branches.
If the branch is cut off, it withers and dies.

I guess I put a condition on eternal security....
 

justbyfaith

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The condition is the fear of the LORD; which is provided to everyone who is truly born again...
 
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DoveSpirit05

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Started up Tertullian, I'm at the understanding dat it was just 2 describe the triune relationship between father, son and holly spirit. Weather he believed in three Gods or three persons i'm not sure but I certainly don't believe they are 3 Gods. I believe in the Arian and early church father teachings!! three persons with God the father being sovereign over the son and holly spirit. This trinity doctrine is really causing havoc among the Christian community and is even confusing muslims too and probly hindering dem from coming 2 Christianity.
 

DoveSpirit05

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This is not true, because even though during the rulership of the Messiah on this earth the earth will be full of righteousness, in obedience to the Torah of Moses which will still not be discarded then, for it is written, "the Torah will go out from Zion" and "the earth will be full of the knowledge of God", there will indeed be few sinners at that time, who will discard even the least of the commands of the Torah in the kingdom of the Messiah, and these are the ones that are written about in Isaiah,

No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isaiah 65:20

So no, the sinners that will exist during the rulership of the Messiah does not justify full out torahlessness now, for it is also written, "many will say to me, did we not cast demons in your name? But I will respond, 'I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of TORAHLESSNESS'".

Thing is tho man paul said u break one law u break dem all. can u keep all of the laws of moses? I certainly cant, let me know if u can sir,

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Heb 8:7 - For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

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Heb 8:13 - In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

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1Joh 2:7 - Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

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1Joh 2:8 - Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
 

justbyfaith

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In between Hebrews 8:7 and Hebrews 8:13 is Hebrews 8:8-10; which teaches us that those who are under the New Covenant have the law written on our hearts and in our minds...Romans 7:6 would tell us that it is not the letter of the law that we are bound to, but it is the spirit of the law that must be obeyed.

Of course, it is also true that those who have not come to faith in Christ (whether Gentile or Jew) are bound to the letter of the law until they come to faith in Christ (Romans 7:1-6, Galatians 3:23-25; Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).