bbyrd009
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well…may i suggest that there are other valid povs there, even if there is a sense in which Yah causes everything, sure
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Ronald Nolette
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bbyrd009: I will agree there are other POV's out there. I do not consider any biblical POV valid if it contradicts the whole counsel of God on a particular subject. And it is not "in a sense" That is a logical fallacy. Either god provides it in reality or He doesn't. Jesus either died for all sins or He didn't. Men may see "in a sense" but the Bible is very clear!
bbyrd009
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Ronald Nolette
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Cuz it was not the prior post subject. My bad. Also catching up with all my back posts. Had to go care for my wife who fell ill on vacation and also trying to sell our house to move. My bad.
bbyrd009
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Behold
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READER,
Where this "faith" issue slides off the track and into the theological ditch, only happens in the mind of a believer, when they do not understand that once you have given God your Faith in Christ.......Its a done deal.
Why is that?
Because "faith is counted, as Righteousness", and the result proves that this is true.
The NT teaches that once ONCE ONCE ONCE ONCE you give God your Faith in Christ, God gives you a new birth.
Its instant and its eternal.
This is to be born again, and its the PROOF that God has accepted your faith, ONCE...... and you are born again once.
To be born again, is to become a "NEW Creation"...
And that is not FAITH doing that to you.....that is GOD causing you to become A SON/Daughter of GOD, based on God accepting your FAITH that ONE TIME.
To become born again is not a temporary situation, as this is a Spiritual BIRTH whereby GOD has JOINED YOU TO HIMSELF and has come to live in you, as you are now the "temple of the Holy Spirit".
That is the "new Creation in Christ" that you BECOME, that is the SON/Daughter of GOD that you REMAIN.
Can you stop being born again?
Can you stop being born?
No you can't.... so, once you are born again, you are always born again as a BIRTH can't be undone.
And if you have a faith issue later, then you are a new creation in Christ, Born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and forever exit as "ONE WITH GOD">.... while you are having your little faith crisis.
Reader, get your head together, and stop being theologically backwards.
Realize who you are in Christ, born again, and get your faith on TRACK.
Stop listening to self righteous hyper-religious deceived liars who try to get your faith confused and subverted and broken.
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That does not mean that unsaved men cannot or do not respond to the Gospel. You have failed to believe that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation and the Holy Spirit is also the power of God unto salvation. So you continue to believe the lie of Total Depravity embedded in Calvinism.
Ronald Nolette
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
No I do believe the gospel is the power of God. As Paul also wrote- Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. But that has nothing to do with Free will or election. that just defines how an unsaved person gets the faith to believe.
I continue to believe in the total depravity as Scripture says! I have posted all teh verses from gods Word ( Calvin agrees with them AFAIK) That shows that man in his natural state will never choose the things of God.
We are by nature children of wrath in Ephesians. We find the things of God as foolish in Corinth.
We do not even perceive the things of God in Corinth.
IN Is. even our goodness is filthy rags to god.
In Romans, in our own nature- we cannot please God!
I think you accept the Armenist definition of what Calvin said is total depravity. Total depravity is not that every one is as bad as they can be- But that all men are conceived as bad off as they can be.
It has everything to do with free will and election. If the Gospel must be either obeyed or disobeyed it means (a) a free will decision must be made and (b) no one is elected for salvation or damnation. They choose to believe or nor believe. So since Christ is the final authority you should listen to what He has to say: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
There are two groups of people mentioned: (1) those who believe and are saved and (2) those who do not believe and are damned. So these few words of Christ automatically cancel the Calvinistic nonsense about free will and election. The fact that Christ says that "the world through Him might be saved" proves that neither limited atonement (L) nor unconditional election (U) are true in TULIP. Indeed all of TULIP is proven to be false.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And how can a supposed free will decision be made in the unsaved man? I have given you the Scriptures that prove unsaved man in and of himself cannot and will not choose God. So tell me how and show SCriptures.
Choosing does not show free will or election. It simply shows choice. How do they get to choose? By what means are they able to choose? those are the questions that go to the heart of free will or predestination.
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