The Two Witnesses....two Men Or Two Groups Of Men?

[David in NJ]

I've just glanced at this post, but see I should read everyone's opinion as theories are brought up that I've never heard before. I've only heard that these are two men, so then the question is who. I came up with Moses and Elijah, the two witnesses on the Mt. of Transfiguration. When I have time, I'll come back to this post and read it through.

The Two who are assigned to the earth bound Jerusalem are either Enoch and Elijah or Moses and Elijah.

i SEE Enoch and Elijah as the Two, for they are the Two Faithful Witnesses who did not see death.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, - Hebrews 9:27

Since God took them before death did, it seems to me (imho), that satan would have authority to say to God - "they have sinned and your word says that all who sin shall die".

Perhaps, this is part of God's Plan when HE took them, without Death upon them, so that HE may bring them back to Jerusalem to prophesy against rebellious Israel, warn of His Coming and sure Judgment and the Grand Finally to face off with the Antichrist who will kill them.

Again, this is my imho according to "as it is written".

 

[Curtis]

In conclusion, the two witnesses, the two prophets, the two anointed ones are made up of two of the seven churches and two olive trees which are Gentile and of Israel. Together they take His message, the oil from Him, to the world.

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands:

The witnesses have an unique, continual empowering from the Holy Spirit, as shown in Zechariah’s olive trees and oil lamps picture (Zec 4:2-3; Zec 4:14).

i. The passage from Zechariah had its first application to two men in Zechariah’s day: Joshua and Zerubbabel. “Just as these two witnesses were raised up to be lampstands or witnesses for God and were empowered by olive oil representing the power of the Holy Spirit, so the two witnesses of Revelation 11 will likewise execute their prophetic office.” (Walvoord)

2. They... These... Them: In the ancient Greek grammar, all the nouns used to speak of the two witnesses in this passage are in the masculine gender. The two witnesses are two men.

 

[Truth7t7]

THE TWO WITNESSES​

Are these two literal entities or...two groups of witnesses?

Revelation 11:3-4 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth” These are the two olive trees AND the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth.​

For some reason I always saw that verse as the olive trees and candlesticks being the same thing. They are not. He explains:

Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, "What seest thou?" And I said, "I have looked, and behold, a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:"​

Christ of course is that One golden candlestick and from Him the olive trees and candlesticks receive the Holy Oil which gives His Light to the world. But, what are those olive trees and candlesticks...for they together are the two witnesses.

Revelation 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.​

Christ, The Golden Candlestick was in the midst of seven candlesticks which He explains are "the seven churches." Notice that in the millennium He is with the seven churches but...not before the millennium. Then He is only among two churches.

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks, The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.​

So, we see that candlesticks are churches and two of those seven are "standing before the God of the earth." [Revelation 11:4] Those two I believe would be Philadelphia and Smyrna because of what they teach. (another study for another time) There are many more folks than two that make up the congregation of those two churches/candlesticks. But, what of the two olive trees? What does that mean?

Zechariah 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?​

We are told in [Zechariah 4:12-14] that the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth, are the two olive branches. Those branches have many twigs.Those two anointed ones are two of the seven churches and the two olive trees....both wild and natural.

Psalms 52:8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.Isaiah 43:10. Ye are My witnesses,” saith the Lord, “and My Servant Whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.43:12 I have declared and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are My witnesses,” saith the Lord, “that I am God.Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,​

In conclusion, the two witnesses, the two prophets, the two anointed ones are made up of two of the seven churches and two olive trees which are Gentile and of Israel. Together they take His message, the oil from Him, to the world.

I Disagree

The two Witnesses will be literal prophets returned, I believe Enoch and Elijah

They will bring literal plagues upon this literal world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

The claim this represents the church taking the word to the world is laughable, reformed historicism is a teaching in error

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Two who are assigned to the earth bound Jerusalem are either Enoch and Elijah or Moses and Elijah.

i SEE Enoch and Elijah as the Two, for they are the Two Faithful Witnesses who did not see death.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, - Hebrews 9:27

Since God took them before death did, it seems to me (imho), that satan would have authority to say to God - "they have sinned and your word says that all who sin shall die".

Perhaps, this is part of God's Plan when HE took them, without Death upon them, so that HE may bring them back to Jerusalem to prophesy against rebellious Israel, warn of His Coming and sure Judgment and the Grand Finally to face off with the Antichrist who will kill them.

Again, this is my imho according to "as it is written".

Yes, I too thought of Enoch for the same reasons. But I focused on the word witnesses and thought of the Mount of Transfiguration where God spoke and said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” Moses and Elijah represented the Law and the Prophets, and God is now commanding the disciples to Hear Jesus who not only fulfills the law and the prophecies, but supersedes them.

 

[Heart2Soul]

In conclusion, the two witnesses, the two prophets, the two anointed ones are made up of two of the seven churches and two olive trees which are Gentile and of Israel. Together they take His message, the oil from Him, to the world.

It's going to be awful messy with all those bodies lying dead in the street for 3 days...
I think the 2 witnesses is literal...

 

[amigo de christo]

It's going to be awful messy with all those bodies lying dead in the street for 3 days...
I think the 2 witnesses is literal...

How can they not be my friend . When the world wont Bury their dead bodies and then they arise
and their enemies BEHOLD , they SEE them and are afraid . OH yes its literal .

 

[amigo de christo]

I Disagree

The two Witnesses will be literal prophets returned, I believe Enoch and Elijah

They will bring literal plagues upon this literal world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

The claim this represents the church taking the word to the world is laughable, reformed historicism is a teaching in error

Who the two witness are , I know not , but what i do know is this is literal and they do bring plagues upon this world .
They will be hated by the world and the world will celebrate their death , for they often had plagued the world
As for who they are i do not know . But its LITERAL and that i do know .

 

[Mantis]

Two men. One Jew one gentile. That’s how I read it. One to witness to the Jews and one to witness to the gentiles. There is a lot of speculation on who they are. As I’ve been told before “three of the two witnesses have been on this board before!”. I find that hilarious. But who knows.

 

[David in NJ]

Two men. One Jew one gentile. That’s how I read it. One to witness to the Jews and one to witness to the gentiles. There is a lot of speculation on who they are. As I’ve been told before “three of the two witnesses have been on this board before!”. I find that hilarious. But who knows.

The Gentile would be Enoch - he was pre-flood and way before Abraham and the start of the Jewish nation thru the Twelve Tribes of Jacob.

Also, Enoch was taken by God and did not see Death.

This could be, that God has a plan to bring him back to finish his course and face death - same for Elijah.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment - Hebrews 9:27

 

[David in NJ]

How can they not be my friend . When the world wont Bury their dead bodies and then they arise
and their enemies BEHOLD , they SEE them and are afraid . OH yes its literal .

There are Two Literal Witnesses who are assigned specifically to Jerusalem by the LORD.

There has been and will continue to be Two Witnesses throughout the world unto His Coming - also by the LORD.

And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matt 24

Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts ch1

They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony.
And they did not love their lives
so as to shy away from death. Rev 12

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I came up with Moses and Elijah, the two witnesses on the Mt. of Transfiguration. When I have time, I'll come back to this post and read it through.

Moses died, so it seems the most intuitive candidates would be Enoch and Elijah. However it seems to me that any premise should be validated by HISTORY. And HISTORY seems to offer a different solution which I can't wrap my head around -- whether it's a literal "Enoch and Elijah" (not likely), or a spiritual transfer through a PHYSICAL BIRTH of these two men (most likely), or something else. But what I do see is ONE man who is of the TWO, and a SECOND man who appears to be the SECOND, -- and they didn't Super-naturally descend back to earth.

And of course where the First man has been in the public for decades, we watched the Second man as a young child saluting his father's caisson; and it can be argued that BOTH men are PRESENTLY filling the roles of the Two Witnesses with some 12 of the 42 months remaining.


But what SHOULD become clear is when BOTH men lie dead in the streets. And THEN only a fool would have to see the "nail prints" of their subsequent coming back to life and ascending.

Bobby Jo

.

 

[amigo de christo]

There are Two Literal Witnesses who are assigned specifically to Jerusalem by the LORD.

There has been and will continue to be Two Witnesses throughout the world unto His Coming - also by the LORD.

And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matt 24

Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts ch1

They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony.
And they did not love their lives
so as to shy away from death. Rev 12

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14

In the mouth of TWO or three witnesses let it be established .
The testimony of even the law . Which JESUS quoated right back at them
when They accused HIM of bearing witness of HIMSELF .

 

[David in NJ]

In the mouth of TWO or three witnesses let it be established .
The testimony of even the law . Which JESUS quoated right back at them
when They accused HIM of bearing witness of HIMSELF .

Like the Lord Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit, in us, is One Witness, Blood washed Saints are the Second Witness and the Scripture (Genesis thru Revelation) which we proclaim is the Third witness.

Where ever a Blood washed-Spirit filled Saint is, there is the Witness of the LORD.

So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1

Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. Isaiah 43

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Isaiah 44

But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” Acts 5

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Who the two witness are , I know not , but what i do know is this is literal and they do bring plagues upon this world .
They will be hated by the world and the world will celebrate their death , for they often had plagued the world
As for who they are i do not know . But its LITERAL and that i do know .

I just thought of something. Both Moses and Elijah were involved in bringing plagues. Moses to Egypt, and Elijah brought three years of drought. I'm thinking that is right from off the top of my head.

 

[amigo de christo]

I just thought of something. Both Moses and Elijah were involved in bringing plagues. Moses to Egypt, and Elijah brought three years of drought. I'm thinking that is right from off the top of my head.

I dont know who they are my friend . But i do know this Those who have Gone on to be with the LORD
dont return to die again a second time . Moses already died the natural death long ago .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I dont know who they are my friend . But i do know this Those who have Gone on to be with the LORD
dont return to die again a second time . Moses already died the natural death long ago .

Do you think Lazarus died again, or went to heaven with Jesus when He did the first time? And what about the servant and the child that Jesus also raised from the dead.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you think Lazarus died again, or went to heaven with Jesus when He did the first time? And what about the servant and the child that Jesus also raised from the dead.

They had died and were at rest but their bodies had seen no corruption . Its not like they had died and gone on
and then years and year later God sent them back .

 

[Helen]

The Man who walked this earth as The First Witness - The Lord Jesus Christ , the perfect lamb.
And the second witness The Body Of Christ - The Overcoming sons …

 

[Curtis]

It's going to be awful messy with all those bodies lying dead in the street for 3 days...
I think the 2 witnesses is literal...

That and the fact that last time I checked, no churches destroy their enemies with fire proceeding from their mouths, nor stop it from raining, as the two witnesses do.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

They had died and were at rest but their bodies had seen no corruption . Its not like they had died and gone on
and then years and year later God sent them back .

After four days Lazarus' body had decayed.