The Two Witnesses

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Jay Ross

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Actually, when Christ returns He throws the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire. Not Satan. Revelation 19:20. Satan is thrown in Revelation 20:10

So untrue, because after the 1,000 years of the beast, the false prophet and Satan having been locked up in the bottomless pit before it is unlocked is when the False Prophet, the Beast and Satan are thrown into the Lake of Fire towards the very end of the Millennium Age.

Please note that Chapters 19 and 20 are parallel accounts of what will be happening, during the Millennium Age. Both chapters' starting points are at the beginning of the Millennium Age and Chapter 19 ends, so to speak, when the False Prophet and the Beast are cast into the lake of fire shortly before Satan is captured and also thrown into the lake of fire as told in Chapter 20.

When we are able to put the prophetic words together in their right sequence, it all falls into place and bears no resemblance to what you have suggested in your post.

Please note that Daniel 7 tells us that the beast(s) and the false prophet are judged and imprisoned before Christ is given dominion over the whole earth.
 

101G

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the two witness, the olive trees and the candelstick.

God give us the answer to the two Olive trees, and the candlestick. he reveals this to us in his prophet, Zechariah 4:1 "And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,"
Zechariah 4:2 "And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:"
Zechariah 4:3 "And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof."

only one candlestick, or container, "ONE" candlestick, not two. candlestick here is the stand, not the candle themselves but the stand, which holds the candles. Zechariah said he saw "a", candlestick. so the candlestick is the lampstand which is only ONE. for in the book of revelation the term "Candlestick" is define as,
G3087 λυχνία luchnia (lïch-niy'-a) n.
a lamp-stand.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G3088]
KJV: candlestick

notice the definition states "a" lamp-stand, not two, but "a", meaning one.

Now knowing that, back in Zechariah the angel tell him who or what the two olive trees are, men. 4:6 "Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
here "spirit", with the small case "s" indicate a man spirit. so we know that it's two people. for verses 11-14 tells us so, listen,
Zechariah 4:11 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?"
Zechariah 4:12 "And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?"
Zechariah 4:13 "And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord."
Zechariah 4:14 "Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."

BINGO, the Golden oil not just oil, but the golden oil is the Spirit, or the Holy Spirit, who anoints these two witness. for the olive oil is the repersentation for an anointed "WORK".

only the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist from birth have the Holy Ghost/oil from birth. yes, both John and the Lord Jesus was anointed from birth with the Holy Spirit. these two men was the only one at that time that was "ANOINTED" with the spirit, not just filled with the Spirit, but "ANOITED" with the Spirit to do a WORK. the writer of John's gospel clearly states that he was a witness.
John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John."
John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe."
and we know that the Lord Jesus is the faithful witness.
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

so there are the two witness, not two candlesticks/lampstand, only "ONE" so that eliminates any other person or thing one can to apply to the two witness as being something else.

so the two witness having the anoiting of the Holy Spirit was "ALIVE" to God. why do we say that? for dead son cannot "work". the dead know nothing. so one must be alive to God to do his WORK, and to be alive to God one must have his Spirit. this is why John came from God and was not just sent by God. another thing, all the people on the EARTH, at that time was DEAD, not BORN again. and three, the dead cannot inherit anything, hence the reason why we need to be BORN AGAIN.

there was more meat in this post that meets the eye, but it's concern another topic which I will not hijack this topic to discuss.

but i hope this was helpful in understanding who the two witness are. it's just the beginning.

PICJAG.
 

Earburner

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the two witness, the olive trees and the candelstick.

God give us the answer to the two Olive trees, and the candlestick. he reveals this to us in his prophet, Zechariah 4:1 "And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,"
Zechariah 4:2 "And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:"
Zechariah 4:3 "And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof."

only one candlestick, or container, "ONE" candlestick, not two. candlestick here is the stand, not the candle themselves but the stand, which holds the candles. Zechariah said he saw "a", candlestick. so the candlestick is the lampstand which is only ONE. for in the book of revelation the term "Candlestick" is define as,
G3087 λυχνία luchnia (lïch-niy'-a) n.
a lamp-stand.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G3088]
KJV: candlestick

notice the definition states "a" lamp-stand, not two, but "a", meaning one.

Now knowing that, back in Zechariah the angel tell him who or what the two olive trees are, men. 4:6 "Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
here "spirit", with the small case "s" indicate a man spirit. so we know that it's two people. for verses 11-14 tells us so, listen,
Zechariah 4:11 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?"
Zechariah 4:12 "And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?"
Zechariah 4:13 "And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord."
Zechariah 4:14 "Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."

BINGO, the Golden oil not just oil, but the golden oil is the Spirit, or the Holy Spirit, who anoints these two witness. for the olive oil is the repersentation for an anointed "WORK".

only the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist from birth have the Holy Ghost/oil from birth. yes, both John and the Lord Jesus was anointed from birth with the Holy Spirit. these two men was the only one at that time that was "ANOINTED" with the spirit, not just filled with the Spirit, but "ANOITED" with the Spirit to do a WORK. the writer of John's gospel clearly states that he was a witness.
John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John."
John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe."
and we know that the Lord Jesus is the faithful witness.
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

so there are the two witness, not two candlesticks/lampstand, only "ONE" so that eliminates any other person or thing one can to apply to the two witness as being something else.

so the two witness having the anoiting of the Holy Spirit was "ALIVE" to God. why do we say that? for dead son cannot "work". the dead know nothing. so one must be alive to God to do his WORK, and to be alive to God one must have his Spirit. this is why John came from God and was not just sent by God. another thing, all the people on the EARTH, at that time was DEAD, not BORN again. and three, the dead cannot inherit anything, hence the reason why we need to be BORN AGAIN.

there was more meat in this post that meets the eye, but it's concern another topic which I will not hijack this topic to discuss.

but i hope this was helpful in understanding who the two witness are. it's just the beginning.

PICJAG.
Amen again!!
"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner.
 

friend of

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When we are able to put the prophetic words together in their right sequence, it all falls into place and bears no resemblance to what you have suggested in your post

Rev. 19 is just before the Millennial Kingdom. Rev. 20 describes what happens after the MK. It's very straightforward. Reread Revelation 19.
 

Jay Ross

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Rev. 19 is just before the Millennial Kingdom. Rev. 20 describes what happens after the MK. It's very straightforward. Reread Revelation 19.

But the Book of revelations is not linear as you are suggesting.

Simple fact.
 

friend of

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So untrue, because after the 1,000 years of the beast, the false prophet and Satan having been locked up in the bottomless pit before it is

Nowhere in Revelation does it state that the beast and the false prophet are locked into the abyss with Satan. You are making that up.

Simple fact.
 
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Jay Ross

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Nowhere in Revelation does it state that the beast and the false prophet are locked into the abyss with Satan. You are making that up.

Simple fact.

How about you read the Book of Revelations then slowly. It is read in this book that they coup up out of the Abyss/pit/earth.

Also Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us this as well.

Shalom
 

pompadour

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Pompy.

You do remember the disciples asked Jesus about this.


Matthew 17:10-13
Then his disciples asked him, “Why do the teachers of religious law insist that Elijah must return before the Messiah comes? ” Jesus replied, “Elijah is indeed coming first to get everything ready. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, but he wasn’t recognized, and they chose to abuse him. And in the same way they will also make the Son of Man suffer.Then the disciples realized he was talking about John the Baptist.

Yes I remember that verse, I have read it many times, You had to bring it up didn't you. lol.
I can't get my head around it. Here is my dilemma. Elijah was a man in the flesh, lived and died or was taken to Heaven. John was born in the flesh, Jesus said that John was Elijah.... That is reincarnation. Reincarnation is NOT Biblical. Can some one explain that to me?
Pomp.
 

Bobby Jo

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Yes I remember that verse, I have read it many times, You had to bring it up didn't you. lol.
I can't get my head around it. Here is my dilemma. Elijah was a man in the flesh, lived and died or was taken to Heaven. John was born in the flesh, Jesus said that John was Elijah.... That is reincarnation. Reincarnation is NOT Biblical. Can some one explain that to me?
Pomp.

-- I can! Because it's that same "mold" which TRUMP & PENCE operate from. So the only distinction is whether we know enough to see who is more assertive, Enoch or Elijah, -- because then we'll know which one is TRUMP and which is PENCE!

Bobby Jo
 

pompadour

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-- I can! Because it's that same "mold" which TRUMP & PENCE operate from. So the only distinction is whether we know enough to see who is more assertive, Enoch or Elijah, -- because then we'll know which one is TRUMP and which is PENCE!

Bobby Jo

So then some people are reincarnated ?
Pomp.
 
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Philip James

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Yes I remember that verse, I have read it many times, You had to bring it up didn't you. lol.
I can't get my head around it. Here is my dilemma. Elijah was a man in the flesh, lived and died or was taken to Heaven. John was born in the flesh, Jesus said that John was Elijah.... That is reincarnation. Reincarnation is NOT Biblical. Can some one explain that to me?
Pomp.

When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, "Ask for whatever I may do for you, before I am taken from you." Elisha answered, "May I receive a double portion of your spirit."

What does it mean to have the spirit of Elijah?

Peace!
 

pompadour

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When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, "Ask for whatever I may do for you, before I am taken from you." Elisha answered, "May I receive a double portion of your spirit."

What does it mean to have the spirit of Elijah?

Peace!

So that would be like being possessed by a good spirit or an evil spirit ?
Pomp.
 

Bobby Jo

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So then some people are reincarnated ?
Pomp.

NO! Simply a "stereotype" or "model". And this DOES NOT explain or account for why these two men were "taken up alive" without DYING, and then what? -- not coming back to earth to DIE?!?

Quite the "riddle, wrapped in an enigma, inside a mystery" to steal a phrase for Churchill ... :)
Bobby Jo
 
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Philip James

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So that would be like being possessed by a good spirit or an evil spirit ?
Pomp.

Can you clarify what you are asking here?

Consider also:

A clean heart create for me, God; renew in me a steadfast spirit.

Do not drive me from your presence, nor take from me your holy spirit.

Restore my joy in your salvation; sustain in me a willing spirit.

I will teach the wicked your ways, that sinners may return to you.

Peace!
 

Trekson

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In the sense you speak of, that all those who believe on Jesus Christ are His elect, that's true, IF one does not 'fall away'. I'm not going to debate this difference, because it is clearly shown in John 17 about those not of this world who were 'sent' compared to those who only come to believe through 'their' word (i.e., by their preaching of The Gospel). Like Jesus said, many are called, but few are chosen. A chosen elect is one who cannot get out of their called duty for Christ; He will force them back to their duty if they stray. But for the rest of us, God will allow us to stray if that's what we choose.

If by fall away, you mean reject Christ then I agree, however, if you're talking about back-sliding, I believe they're still saved and will just get less rewards.
 

Trekson

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Furthermore, Christ's Messages to those two Churches He had no rebuke for, contain specific information not privy to the other five Churches. That... is something the serious Bible student should have recognized immediately when studying those seven Messages which Lord Jesus gave those Churches through His Apostle John.

That has absolutely nothing to do w/ our discussion. All the churches have something said to them that isn't said to the others.
 

Stumpmaster

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Watched this video the other night I was quite amazed. It's an in-depth look at who the two witnesses are, that is mentioned in Revelation Chapter 11.
Thanks for bringing this video to my attention, Josho.
Just a comment regarding the two olive trees first mentioned in Zechariah 4:3. These are said to be literally "the two sons of oil that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." The context of Zechariah is the work of Zerubbabel the Governor and Joshua the High Priest in rebuilding the temple and replenishing the city. Here we have two persons ordained and anointed for office, one for the magistracy and the other for the ministry. The contribution to the Divine Plan by those anointed as kings and priests is an analogy that continues in Revelation. We may wonder who the two endtimes witnesses are but it is what they do that grabs my attention.
 
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quietthinker

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Watched this video the other night I was quite amazed. It's an in-depth look at who the two witnesses are, that is mentioned in Revelation Chapter 11.

The video is an hour and a quarter watch but it's well worth watching and I learnt some new things.

Revelation 11:3-10
And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

The two witnesses that stand before the Lord of the whole earth Josh are the old and new testaments. :)
 

Giuliano

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So then some people are reincarnated ?
Pomp.
Yes, I can remember some of my past lives. Jews believe in reincarnation. In what other way could this be?

Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

I'd say the saints are expected to pay their dues if it can serve the kingdom.

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

I think reincarnation also explains why some people are "foreknown" by God and called "elect" while others aren't.
 
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