The Two Witnesses

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

the bible is clear on John the Baptist is the Elijah to come. and in the book of Revelation, it is clear that the two witness are symbolic for two prophets. Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." this is symbolic language pointing us to the real two witness. for the book of Revelation is siginified. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

so knowing that the book is signified it will interperte itself unless straight out tells you. so with John identified as the Elijah to come, now the Lord Jesus, is he the second witness in our sights?. who is the witness/prophet who, "had power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues" without a doubt Moses is in contention, but by John's time he was already dead as well as Elijah. so what we need to do then is seek out the similarities between the two, Moses, and the Lord Jesus, as with John and Elijah.

the Lord Jesus and Moses.
1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face Physical (human) meeting, but with a barrier in between. and Jesus who is the equal "share" of GOD himself in likeness as a man, have as John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, Jesus Spiritual bondage
3. both Moses and Jesus were saved from death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered. Moses, when pharaoh ordered all male children killed when in the Land of Egypt by the midwives. and the Lord Jesus, when Herod gave the order to kill all babies/children two years or less in israel.
4. both Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of the world. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently also. he suffered for the people sake.
5. both Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt".
6. both Moses and Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation
7. both Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel, (now the church), and God.
8. both Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of Stone. Jesus the Spiritual Law of the heart.
9. both had water connection. Jesus turnes water into wine... (RED), as Moses turned the nile into blood.. (RED). both (RED) are symbolic.
10. both died natural fleshly death, and no man knows where their GRAVE are.
this is just a few, their are many more.

and to know that that this is the the one to hear and believe on is in the a. Voice from heaven, and the apostle Peter confirming this by God himself, Acts 3:20 "And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:"
Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."
Acts 3:22 "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you."
Acts 3:23 "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

"that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people" MY QUESTION TO YOU, ARE YOU HEARING THAT PROPHET TOPDAY?... BINGO THERE IS YOUR SECOND WITNESS THE LORD JESUS, THE "GOSPEL". (see mark 1:1).

is not the gospel a witness today? is not water Baptism a witness today. now tell me what outside of these two witness effect your salvation today?

a re-read of this post may be nessary for clarity of these two witness.

PICJAG.

 

[Davy]

If by fall away, you mean reject Christ then I agree, however, if you're talking about back-sliding, I believe they're still saved and will just get less rewards.

Well, that is my hope also, like you say, that those who fall away will not be lost by Christ. Yet God's Word does show a difference between some that are chosen (ie., for a specific duty they are destined to fulfill), vs. those who are called (called to hear The Gospel by their preaching, and believe).

Lord Jesus revealed this in His prayer to The Father just before being delivered up:

John 17:12-21
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name: those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Christ's disciples were given Him by The Father. In verse 6 Jesus reveals they originally belonged to The Father, and He gave them to Jesus. That is the sign of being a preordained elect, and chosen 'sent' one (the idea of being 'sent' is where the Greek word for Apostle comes from).

13 And now come I to Thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them Thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Again, Jesus shows His disciples were a chosen elect separate from the world.

15 I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Still speaking of His chosen Apostles who were with Him. Apostle Paul was a special example, as Jesus converted him directly, divine intervention, removing any doubt Saul may have had about Lord Jesus.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;

That is where Lord Jesus showed He was speaking of His chosen Apostles as a different group of elect than the believer who hears The Gospel through His Apostle's preaching and then believes.

21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
KJV

Then Lord Jesus prays that BOTH groups together become 'one' in Him and The Father, which means both become Christ's elect.

The difference though, is that Christ's chosen elect cannot... ever... fall away. The only one that did was Judas Iscariot, and that because it was shown he was chosen specifically in order to fulfill the Old Testament prophecy of the pieces of silver, betraying Christ (John 17:12).

This is also why Jesus said this about His chosen elect sent ones when the coming pseudo-Christ shows up and the deceived will say it's Christ...

Matt 24:24-26
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

In the Greek of verse 24, kai for "very" exists to stress this difference of Christ's chosen elect. The "if it were possible" phrase is to show that it is NOT possible for His very elect chosen ones to ever be deceived. They are chosen, The Father already owned them before, and He gave them to Lord Jesus. That is to show previous ownership, which is why Jesus could appear directly to His Apostles and command them to follow Him, with they're not having The Gospel preached to them first.

For the rest of us, we came to Christ as we were called, from hearing the preaching of The Gospel by Christ's sent ones. This means the office of apostle still exists in Christ's Church today, just not in the sense of those like His Apostles who were with Him, nor like Paul whom Jesus divinely converted in Person. So the rest of us can... fall away, as we are called only. That is why Christ's Apostles, especially Paul, continually admonished us to pray and stay spiritually sober, and not fall away. It's because we can, IF we allow ourselves. It ultimately means there is a 'test' coming at the very end of this world by the coming Antichrist playing God in Jerusalem. Some brethren are going to heed the crept in unawares that have sneaked into their pulpits that will lead them to worship that coming Antichrist in place of Jesus. They will be told that is Messiah, as the majority of the unbelieving Jews will also believe it.

 

[Davy]

That has absolutely nothing to do w/ our discussion. All the churches have something said to them that isn't said to the others.

By your statement, you create a conundrum, because Lord Jesus gave a specific revelation to the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia that was common to only them, but not to the other five Churches. The matter I put in bold below...

Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
KJV

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

You should have also recognized that Lord Jesus, by telling those of the Church of Philadelphia that He will make those enemies come worship at their feet, meaning in the future Millennium, means He was pointing to that Church as representing His elect that will reign with Him, meaning they are definitely already 'sealed' by Him.

Both of those Churches understood about the "synagogue of Satan", which involves being able to discern Christ's enemies. The other five Churches had problems that Jesus told them to repent from, simply because they didn't recognize the "synagogue of Satan" who only call themselves Jews, but are not. The Jezebel teaching Baalism and fornication in the Church of Thyatira was a huge sign of that.

 

[Bobby Jo]

That is my question. Is the spirit of Elijah in the earth today going from person to person ? and how could some one get a double spirit of Elijah?
Pomp.

Hey Pomp,

I may not understand the "ingredients", but I can "taste the pudding". And by my best understanding, Trump & Pence are the Two, -- while it's still on the stove. But when it cools down (in about 3-4 months) we should have a better idea!

Bobby Jo

 

[Trekson]

By your statement, you create a conundrum, because Lord Jesus gave a specific revelation to the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia that was common to only them, but not to the other five Churches. The matter I put in bold below...

Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
KJV

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

You should have also recognized that Lord Jesus, by telling those of the Church of Philadelphia that He will make those enemies come worship at their feet, meaning in the future Millennium, means He was pointing to that Church as representing His elect that will reign with Him, meaning they are definitely already 'sealed' by Him.

Both of those Churches understood about the "synagogue of Satan", which involves being able to discern Christ's enemies. The other five Churches had problems that Jesus told them to repent from, simply because they didn't recognize the "synagogue of Satan" who only call themselves Jews, but are not. The Jezebel teaching Baalism and fornication in the Church of Thyatira was a huge sign of that.

I think you're reading more into these verses than what is meant. The difference is they were being persecuted by non-believing Jews because some of them were still worshipping in synagogues. The various churches because of their locations simply had different problems than the other churches. The period of grace for the jews ended in 70 ad so because their worship was based on a law no longer in existence, it was empty and in vain being urged on by the devil to continue to reject the Messiah. We are all "sealed" upon salvation. We are the body of Christ and will be united w/ him as one so when they bow to Christ, they are in effect bowing to us as well, not because those churches were "special". They were the normal church as it should be, the other churches still had more work to do within to get to that point as well. That's really all that's meant.

 

[Philip James]

and how could some one get a double spirit of Elijah?

What is the spirit of Elijah?

Is it not the same spirit of David as quoted above? Is it not the same spirit of John?
The Holy Spirit?

And yet Jesus says the least in the kingdom are greater than these..

Peace be with you!

 

[Davy]

I think you're reading more into these verses than what is meant. The difference is they were being persecuted by non-believing Jews because some of them were still worshipping in synagogues. The various churches because of their locations simply had different problems than the other churches. The period of grace for the jews ended in 70 ad so because their worship was based on a law no longer in existence, it was empty and in vain being urged on by the devil to continue to reject the Messiah. We are all "sealed" upon salvation. We are the body of Christ and will be united w/ him as one so when they bow to Christ, they are in effect bowing to us as well, not because those churches were "special". They were the normal church as it should be, the other churches still had more work to do within to get to that point as well. That's really all that's meant.

You show you do not understand what that "synagogue of Satan" is actually about. It's not just about non-believing Jews, and you'd have known that if you had actually listened to what Lord Jesus said there, instead of men's ideas already programmed into your mind beforehand. He pointed to the fact that those only 'say' they are Jews, and are not, but lie. Per Bible history starting in Genesis, who crept in among the children of Israel that were of the Canaanite nations? And why did Jesus show at the last verse of Zechariah 14 there would be no more of them then in the house of God? Who are the 'tares' of Christ's parable of the tares of the field? God's Word teaches about the children of light vs. the children of darkness. How will you understand much of His Word if you don't understand this?

 

[Trekson]

You show you do not understand what that "synagogue of Satan" is actually about. It's not just about non-believing Jews, and you'd have known that if you had actually listened to what Lord Jesus said there, instead of men's ideas already programmed into your mind beforehand. He pointed to the fact that those only 'say' they are Jews, and are not, but lie. Per Bible history starting in Genesis, who crept in among the children of Israel that were of the Canaanite nations? And why did Jesus show at the last verse of Zechariah 14 there would be no more of them then in the house of God? Who are the 'tares' of Christ's parable of the tares of the field? God's Word teaches about the children of light vs. the children of darkness. How will you understand much of His Word if you don't understand this?

In this context Canaanite just means a fake believer, wolves in sheep's clothing, infiltrators of the church but they are of all races. It's not one select group of people. The politicians who are trying to stop us from attending church fall into that category.

 

[101G]

Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth”. (kjv).
a thousand two hundred and threescore days is exactly 42 months or 3 1/2 years, the exact length, or measure of the Lord Jesus ministry. And the POWER that fueled this ministry is God himself the Holy Spirit. Scripture, John 3:34 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him”.

Cloths in sackcloth, meaning preaching repentance. sackcloth means penitence. and the definition of penitence is the action of feeling or showing sorrow and regret for having done wrong; repentance. the first thing out of John the Baptist mouth, "REPENT". Scripture, Matthews 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight". now the Lord Jesus, Scripture, Matthews 4:16 "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". so we have the two witness, John and the Lord Jesus. But lets go on.

who say prophet don't preach, especially if the prophet is a woman... prophet preach OT as well as NT. so the two witness are preachers and prophets, and teachers.

so the 3 1/2 years line up with the ministry of John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Revelation 11:5 "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed”.
Many Christians and others, think that the fire out of the witness mouth is actual physical fire. No, scripture, Jeremiah 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them”. if one would read that 5th chapter of Jeremiah, one will see who this fire, the word of God devoured. It was false prophets. And the word of God exposed them for who they was, so did the Lord Jesus burned them, (the false prophets) up, by the word of God. John also had a fiery mouth, the truth, the word of God, which made him a martyr also. And please note: a martyr is also called a “witness”.

this is the manner, in which, they will be killed. By the truth, the word of GOD, will the false prophets will be killed, and like wise by telling the truth, the word of God, these witness will be killed, literally. This fulfills the scripture, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel”.

Isaiah 11:4 "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Hosea 6:5 "Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

so there is no literal fire coming out of anyone's mouth, it's the word of God, the truth, that slay false prophets and false doctrine.

so don't let these videos, and Youtub decieve you... ok.

PICJAG.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... the 3 1/2 years line up with the ministry of ... the Lord Jesus. ...

This would appear to be based upon MYTH and LORE, but not Chronology. I believe that Kenneth Doig arrived at into the 2 year, but not 3 year mark, -- and it's my opinion/observation that his work is impeccable.

Bobby Jo

 

[101G]

This would appear to be based upon MYTH and LORE, but not Chronology. I believe that Kenneth Doig arrived at into the 2 year, but not 3 year mark, -- and it's my opinion/observation that his work is impeccable.

Bobby Jo

first thanks for the reply, and second, no, not impeccable, but thanks but no thanks, the bible is clear, Luke 3:23 states that Jesus was "about 30 years of age" at the start of his ministry. and lasted until the date of the Last Supper which is very close to the date of the crucifixion. and John's ministry about 6 month before our Lords. -

this is supported of many researches, I suggest you visit Got question.com and follow the time line. How long was Jesus’ ministry? | GotQuestions.org

or you can google some dates, your choice.

PICJAG.

 

[Davy]

In this context Canaanite just means a fake believer, wolves in sheep's clothing, infiltrators of the church but they are of all races. It's not one select group of people. The politicians who are trying to stop us from attending church fall into that category.

It's deeper than that. It is about a certain group of people ordained to the condemnation against Christ. You have been taught that everyone would turn to our Lord Jesus Christ if they would just 'hear' The Gospel and believe, when per God's Word there is a group of workers that never will, because they ordained to work the negative side of God's Plan. It's not that His Salvation isn't open to them also, it's that they have the 'beast' nature in them to sway them towards working against Him...

Jude 4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV


Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, "Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 He answered and said unto them, "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

For this present world, Jesus foreordained His elect before the foundation of the earth. These especially are about those of His that He 'chose', and which He already owns, and can discipline to do their duty without fail. It is also those who are 'called' that believe by hearing The Gospel.

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Likewise, the devil also has those who serve him as his elect, and he already owns them. Christ's Salvation is still open to them IF... they would turn to Christ, but Jude 1 shows they have a 'beast' nature in them to sway them to following the devil, so they will not turn. That is why Jesus says in the next verse these "tares" are destined to be burned in the "lake of fire".

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

That is not about those in Christ, nor those who slip up at times and repent, nor about anyone who is deceived by the "tares" into working against Christ (like Apostle Paul once was). It is about those literally of the devil's own elect servants upon this earth ordained to that condemnation, like Jude 1 says.

41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

In relation to Judah, or the "kingdom of Judah" and their history, many of those crept in unawares were of the Canaanites which crept in among them, and also among the children of Israel. That is why The LORD says this in final at the end of Zechariah 14 that I pointed to...

Zech 14:20-21
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV

I suggest you study up on those crept in unawares that crept in among the children of Israel because of their disobeying God's command to destroy the specific Canaanite nations He gave in Deuteronomy 20. When Israel failed to obey Him in that, leaving some of those Canaanites to live among them, see Judges 2 & 3 for what God said as a retaliation to that.

So no, the "synagogue of Satan" is not just about deceived Jews who work against The Gospel. It is about a truly wicked group with the brute beast nature in them ordained for this world to work the negative side of God's Plan. That is why the enmity of Genesis 3 has always existed during this world involving the spiritual war between two groups of peoples.

But what is taught in most Churches instead today? They are taught the lie that the wicked are just kind of misled, and if they'd only hear The Gospel they would turn to our Lord Jesus. In other words, misguided fools only is their concept about the wicked. But that's not how the wicked really are. Those servants that belong to the devil, that he sowed in this world, he already owns and they can not get out of their duty for him, just like with God's chosen elect that cannot be turned away from Christ. Between those two groups is where the real spiritual war during this present world exists. And those wicked are truly... wicked, not misguided souls, but souls that 'knew' Who Jesus was and wanted deliberately to murder Him.

 

[APAK]

Watched this video the other night I was quite amazed. It's an in-depth look at who the two witnesses are, that is mentioned in Revelation Chapter 11.

The video is an hour and a quarter watch but it's well worth watching and I learnt some new things.

Revelation 11:3-10
And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

Great subject and edifying to me. I do agree with some of the video material. I still have reservations with some areas though.

The explanations and the meanings mentioned in the video for scripture symbolism: for sackcloth, and martyrs as witnesses, and the olive trees I do agree on. And that the 'two witnesses' are the two ekklesia as one body of Christ who are true believers in Christ stemming from both the Israelites previously under the Law who later turned to Christ in and throughout history, and from the other nations..

I do not agree with the deep and profound implication found in this video that somehow the olive tree of the natural branches (roots of the Israelites or early Jews) began to grow or are to become believers right before Christ returns. This to me is not scriptural. It is obvious that this 'natural' branched olive tree soon grew into a tree soon after the other nations heard of the gospel and became believers many hundreds of years ago. In other words, for at least 1000 year both olive trees have been thriving and growing and to any person inextinguishable about their ancestors or previous religions. Both olive trees or witnesses are present today and those of the OT descend-ency tree, truly do not know they are any different that the other wild grafted tree. They just know they are Christian today. Only God knows their origin. So then I also do not believe there is or will be in the future any 'modern' (many false and Khazarian) Jews turning to Christ as a grand new awakening right before Christ returns. These true Jews of old assimilated into the other nations and became Christian without knowing their physical roots soon after Christ. In fact we know the first seeds of this natural olive tree began with the natural branches of the disciples and apostles of Israelite/Judahite origin.

Great Thread..

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Trekson]

It's deeper than that. It is about a certain group of people ordained to the condemnation against Christ. You have been taught that everyone would turn to our Lord Jesus Christ if they would just 'hear' The Gospel and believe, when per God's Word there is a group of workers that never will, because they ordained to work the negative side of God's Plan. It's not that His Salvation isn't open to them also, it's that they have the 'beast' nature in them to sway them towards working against Him...

Jude 4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV


Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, "Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 He answered and said unto them, "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

For this present world, Jesus foreordained His elect before the foundation of the earth. These especially are about those of His that He 'chose', and which He already owns, and can discipline to do their duty without fail. It is also those who are 'called' that believe by hearing The Gospel.

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Likewise, the devil also has those who serve him as his elect, and he already owns them. Christ's Salvation is still open to them IF... they would turn to Christ, but Jude 1 shows they have a 'beast' nature in them to sway them to following the devil, so they will not turn. That is why Jesus says in the next verse these "tares" are destined to be burned in the "lake of fire".

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

That is not about those in Christ, nor those who slip up at times and repent, nor about anyone who is deceived by the "tares" into working against Christ (like Apostle Paul once was). It is about those literally of the devil's own elect servants upon this earth ordained to that condemnation, like Jude 1 says.

41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

In relation to Judah, or the "kingdom of Judah" and their history, many of those crept in unawares were of the Canaanites which crept in among them, and also among the children of Israel. That is why The LORD says this in final at the end of Zechariah 14 that I pointed to...

Zech 14:20-21
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV

I suggest you study up on those crept in unawares that crept in among the children of Israel because of their disobeying God's command to destroy the specific Canaanite nations He gave in Deuteronomy 20. When Israel failed to obey Him in that, leaving some of those Canaanites to live among them, see Judges 2 & 3 for what God said as a retaliation to that.

So no, the "synagogue of Satan" is not just about deceived Jews who work against The Gospel. It is about a truly wicked group with the brute beast nature in them ordained for this world to work the negative side of God's Plan. That is why the enmity of Genesis 3 has always existed during this world involving the spiritual war between two groups of peoples.

But what is taught in most Churches instead today? They are taught the lie that the wicked are just kind of misled, and if they'd only hear The Gospel they would turn to our Lord Jesus. In other words, misguided fools only is their concept about the wicked. But that's not how the wicked really are. Those servants that belong to the devil, that he sowed in this world, he already owns and they can not get out of their duty for him, just like with God's chosen elect that cannot be turned away from Christ. Between those two groups is where the real spiritual war during this present world exists. And those wicked are truly... wicked, not misguided souls, but souls that 'knew' Who Jesus was and wanted deliberately to murder Him.

It's possible I suppose, hence the illuminati but there is only two sides, either they're for Christ, they're against him...there is no fence-sitting allowed.. narrow is the way and broad is the path that lead to destruction. There will come a time when the average person will have been deceived by the lie and even when shown the power of God they will not repent. Rev. 9:19-20. And I have never been taught nor do I believe that if they just "hear" the gospel they would turn to Christ. That is a bunch of nonsense. They need to see it in the power of the church but that sorely lacking at this time!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... no, not impeccable ...

Let me suggest that you review his research versus the sloppiness from those who weren't quite as capable or concise:

New Testament Chronology - Exact Dating of the Birth and Crucifixion of Jesus
New Testament Chronology
By Kenneth Frank Doig

Following is New Testament Chronology, (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen Press, 1990), 401 pages, by Kenneth Frank Doig. This book proposes that the calendar of Scripture includes a year that began in the Spring and a day that began at sunrise. This calendar was in use at the Temple in Jerusalem when Jesus taught. Reckoning by this calendar leads to the conclusion that Jesus was born about Dec 25, 5 BC (Hanukah) and was crucified on Friday, April 7, 30 AD after a ministry of 2 years and about 3 months.​

EXTREMELY well researched and documented.

Or, believe the MYTH and the LORE!
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

It's possible I suppose, hence the illuminati but there is only two sides, either they're for Christ, they're against him...there is no fence-sitting allowed.. narrow is the way and broad is the path that lead to destruction. There will come a time when the average person will have been deceived by the lie and even when shown the power of God they will not repent. Rev. 9:19-20. And I have never been taught nor do I believe that if they just "hear" the gospel they would turn to Christ. That is a bunch of nonsense. They need to see it in the power of the church but that sorely lacking at this time!

In Roman 11, Apostle Paul revealed that the majority of un-believing Jews have been spiritually blinded by God's Own hand, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in (which won't happen until Lord Jesus returns). So they cannot be put in that category of the "synagogue of Satan", because per prophecy like the end of Zechariah 12 when Jesus returns, they will understand their error, and the majority of them will repent to Jesus. These are who will want for the rocks and mountains to fall on them when Jesus is revealed coming in the clouds. Their wanting that is a marker of their shame for that time. But the crept in unawares among them, that hide, they will not repent then. Yet even the tares will indeed bow to Christ whether they like it or not, and that is what Jesus is pointing to with the idea of their being made to come worship Christ at the feet of His elect during the future Millennium (Revelation 3:9).

 

[101G]

Let me suggest that you review his research versus the sloppiness from those who weren't quite as capable or concise:

New Testament Chronology - Exact Dating of the Birth and Crucifixion of Jesus
New Testament Chronology
By Kenneth Frank Doig

Following is New Testament Chronology, (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen Press, 1990), 401 pages, by Kenneth Frank Doig. This book proposes that the calendar of Scripture includes a year that began in the Spring and a day that began at sunrise. This calendar was in use at the Temple in Jerusalem when Jesus taught. Reckoning by this calendar leads to the conclusion that Jesus was born about Dec 25, 5 BC (Hanukah) and was crucified on Friday, April 7, 30 AD after a ministry of 2 years and about 3 months.​

EXTREMELY well researched and documented.

Or, believe the MYTH and the LORE!
Bobby Jo

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, it's bit harsh to say, "the sloppiness from those who weren't quite as capable or concise". to that, reading over your boy's research, it to me seen sloppy for even he stated that there was some corrections in some of his own research. so, I see no reason to accept anyone else, so called sloppy research too. so thanks, but no thanks.

good day.

PICJAG

 

[101G]

Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

Lets look once more at this POWER that was given. Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will."

the POWER of "plagues". many don't like plagues, but guess what, it brought about the the release, the Salvation, of the children of God that was in bondage, (in a type of DEATH). Moses was Given power to bring about the plagues on Egypt, to secure this release from this death/bondage. now another comparrision with the Lord Jesus, he is "GIVEN" power, all Power.... listen to be a plague on DEATH itself, that he will overcome to bring forth our salvation, from the bondage of DEATH. Hosea 13:14 "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes." and notice plagues has an "s" at the end indicating more than one. but that's another topic.

1 Corinthians 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
1 Corinthians 15:55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"
1 Corinthians 15:56 "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."
1 Corinthians 15:57 "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

BINGO. another prophecy fulfilled, yes fulfilled, for BAPTISM give us the DEATH, and as our Lord rose, we rise in HIM...... and this is victory accomplish by the "Gospel", the true and faithful witness, Jesus the Christ, the only true and living GOD.

boy this bible is getting simpler to understand every day.

PICJAG.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... he stated that there was some corrections in some of his own research. ...

... THAT'S what IMPECCABLE people do! They strive for PERFECTION. -- Isn't that what sinners do DAILY after they accept Jesus? Strive for PERFECTION?


... that is, unless you've achieved PERFECTION, -- and in that case, you can criticize those who are still working at it!
Bobby Jo