The Two Witnesses
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Revelation 11:3-4And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.Revelation 11:10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.To me, the Scripture speaks well for itself already. I have yet to see how everyone keeps denying the sent prophets till one day when they are killed, you'll be sending gifts to one another.
Hawkins, is it just a coincidence we are to ignore that earlier an angel defined the 7 lampstands as churches, and that two of those lampstands stood before the Lord without criticism, and 5 were fallen? samy
(Hawkins;49727)
Revelation 11:3-4And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.Revelation 11:10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.To me, the Scripture speaks well for itself already. I have yet to see how everyone keeps denying the sent prophets till one day when they are killed, you'll be sending gifts to one another.
Agreed Hawkins
Revelation 11:3-4And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.Revelation 11:10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.To me, the Scripture speaks well for itself already. I have yet to see how everyone keeps denying the sent prophets till one day when they are killed, you'll be sending gifts to one another.
Agreed Hawkins
Bible prophecy is a word puzzle with each passage providing important information. Rev 11 provides two important pieces of information which you seem to have overlooked.The first piece: There is a pocket of Christina survivors (including the two witnesses) within the old city of Jerusalem.Rev 111I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. The location is reconfirmed with the death of the two witnesses which will lay in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 ½ days.Rev 118Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.During the GT, million of Christians a slated to be executed by the AC for not taking the “mark of the beast.” Only one place in the world will be protected, by God, during the 42 months of the GT; Jerusalem. And Rev 11 provides two of many verses that confirms this. The second piece: There is a period of 3 ½ days between the 1260 days of the GT and TDOL. 1. The Two Witnesses prophesy for the 1260 days of the GT. 2. Their bodies will lay in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 ½ days. 3. They are resurrected on TDOL. Conclusion: There is a period of 3 ½ days between the 1260 days of the GT and TDOL.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
(kriss;45300)
Now on that you are 100% wrong going going forth in the spirit of Elijah is not the same thing that is just plain not what it says we it means Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.Christ was not received so this was not ElijahThe Jews knew Elijha was prophicesed to come before the messiah So if theyhad accepted christ it would have been Elijha and it would have been over but they didnt of course
I am not sure what you are saying.Look at this verse in the amplified:14 And if you are willing to receive and accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come [before the kingdom].We might say today, "whether you believe it or not, John is the Elijah that was to come."The fact of John being Elijah was not hinging of whether or not they beleived anything. Jesus told them a fact: John was the Elijah to come. They need not look for another.If we look at it in Mark, it makes it clearer:Mark 911 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? 12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. 13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.Here Jesus is speaking only to his inner circle - those that saw Him transfigured. What does He tell them? "I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come." We can be sure then, that John the baptist fulfilled the prophecy that Elijah must come before the day of the Lord. He came, and it was before the day of the Lord.Coop
Now on that you are 100% wrong going going forth in the spirit of Elijah is not the same thing that is just plain not what it says we it means Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.Christ was not received so this was not ElijahThe Jews knew Elijha was prophicesed to come before the messiah So if theyhad accepted christ it would have been Elijha and it would have been over but they didnt of course
I am not sure what you are saying.Look at this verse in the amplified:14 And if you are willing to receive and accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come [before the kingdom].We might say today, "whether you believe it or not, John is the Elijah that was to come."The fact of John being Elijah was not hinging of whether or not they beleived anything. Jesus told them a fact: John was the Elijah to come. They need not look for another.If we look at it in Mark, it makes it clearer:Mark 911 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? 12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. 13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.Here Jesus is speaking only to his inner circle - those that saw Him transfigured. What does He tell them? "I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come." We can be sure then, that John the baptist fulfilled the prophecy that Elijah must come before the day of the Lord. He came, and it was before the day of the Lord.Coop
Some wonder "when" the two witnesses will show up on earth. Actually, John tells us. He is introduced to them, when they will show up. When is that? God introduces them to John, just before the exact midpoint of the week. If I had to guess, it will be 3 1/2 days before the midpoint.Every time the Holy Spirit had John write about events that will start at the midpoint, and go to the end of the week, He always had John include the 3 1/2 years. Therefore, every time we read of this 3 1/2 year time frame, it is a "hint" that we are reading of events right at the midpoint of the week. As an example, 12:6 speaks of the woman fleeing in to the widerness, where she will be protected for 1260 days. Why is she fleeing? Jesus said that those living in Judea should flee when they see the abomination. The "woman" are those in Judea fleeing, because they have just seen this event that splits the 70th week. Therefore, this verse is a "hint" that John is very close to the exact midpoint of the week here.Coop
The two witnesses will "show up" at the beginning of the great tribulation which is 3 1/2 years long. There is no 7 year tribulation mentioned anywhere in the Bible. the 70th week of Daniel is nowhere called the great tribulation. The book of Daniel repeatedly tells us of a future 3 1/2 year tribulation period yet to be fulfilled, including the last half of the 70th week of Daniel 9. Revelation 11, 12, 13 all portray a future 3 1/2 year period of time (all the same period of time), yet future, yet unfulfilled. No passage of scripture ever speaks of a seven year tribulation. That is an invention. Try to find it in the Bible. Even when Jesus answered his disciples questions about his coming he pointed to the abomination of desolation, which precedes the time of his second coming by 3 1/2 years, NOT SEVEN! samy
Interesting, I do have a question though. Can a translated being die again. We know for certain Enoch was translated a similar experience to ressurrection only difference is one does not die and Elijah appeared in glory to Jesus on the mount sounds like both these guys have been translated or transformed wouldn't it be impossible for them to die again since in a sense they have already undergone a kind of resurrection or transformation and well Moses did die the fact that Moses appeared with Elijah would mean they have both undergone something similar. How is it possible for them to undergo death again? Or were they just taken up temporarily till the last day?5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
It does say we are appointed once to die So thats a good reason to suspect the two wittness could be Elijah and Enoch The only one we know the name of is Elijah The name of the other wittness is educated guess's they could or could not be right.some have better reasoning than others but they are still only opinions.
I have heard it was Enoch and Elijah too, but I wonder why there was a fight over Moses body
Why he was at the transfiguration Matt. 17? How did the disciples recognize Moses and Elijah here..they had never seen them before?
Why he was at the transfiguration Matt. 17? How did the disciples recognize Moses and Elijah here..they had never seen them before?I guess if you need an individual to show up and be reincarnated so he can fit a prophetic theory, you just assert it and it becomes probably true. Please note that those who hold the Elijah-witness theory are often those who hold that John the Babtist could have actually been flesh and blood Elijah if circumstances had been different--if Jesus had been received. That would amount to reincarnation through the parents of John the Baptist. Where does it end? Is anything fair game to establish a doctrine? samy
I am sorry Samy, but I do not see the practicle use of the information as written for the believer in Spirit.You have brought forward scripture and someone elses understanding of what it could refer to. But you clearly show you do not have any personal knowledge and understanding of the passages given to you in that they are not teaching a specific truth.Would you like to explain what these things teach the church in a way they can exercise strength, nourishment and support whilst living in the Spirit on a daily basis.It is like waving a can beans in front of someone and telling them is it food which will nourish them. If you haven't a clue how to open the can and you give them no tools to do it with. How do you expect them to receive the nourishment?SO now you have given these things and the scriptures you need to explain what they mean to the children of God and body of Christ. We can wave a sword but unless we are skilled in the knowledge and use of a sword it is no use to us or anyone we try to defend with it.Faithful.
(samy;51299)
I guess if you need an individual to show up and be reincarnated so he can fit a prophetic theory, you just assert it and it becomes probably true. Please note that those who hold the Elijah-witness theory are often those who hold that John the Babtist could have actually been flesh and blood Elijah if circumstances had been different--if Jesus had been received. That would amount to reincarnation through the parents of John the Baptist. Where does it end? Is anything fair game to establish a doctrine? samy
Perhaps you omit the truth from your understanding and present arguments in a purely human way without the understanding given by the Spirit in truth?No! I did not say the above to offend but to make you think if you really understand the truth of Christs teachings and the apostles in the light of what they actually taught.Christ told the Apostles present at the transfiguration to keep quiet about these things. Stops them speculating. He also like John the Divine told them that the Spirit would lead them in all truth. John 16:13.& 1 John 2:27So when they wrote the gospels they knew who they had seen because the truth was revealed by the Spirit who also caused them to remember these things.Why did you not know these things?If you want to be a teacher of the word, you first need to understand the scriptures snd teachings of Christ and the prophets as taught by God within the believer through the leading and teaching of Gods Holy Spirit.Faithful.
I guess if you need an individual to show up and be reincarnated so he can fit a prophetic theory, you just assert it and it becomes probably true. Please note that those who hold the Elijah-witness theory are often those who hold that John the Babtist could have actually been flesh and blood Elijah if circumstances had been different--if Jesus had been received. That would amount to reincarnation through the parents of John the Baptist. Where does it end? Is anything fair game to establish a doctrine? samy
Perhaps you omit the truth from your understanding and present arguments in a purely human way without the understanding given by the Spirit in truth?No! I did not say the above to offend but to make you think if you really understand the truth of Christs teachings and the apostles in the light of what they actually taught.Christ told the Apostles present at the transfiguration to keep quiet about these things. Stops them speculating. He also like John the Divine told them that the Spirit would lead them in all truth. John 16:13.& 1 John 2:27So when they wrote the gospels they knew who they had seen because the truth was revealed by the Spirit who also caused them to remember these things.Why did you not know these things?If you want to be a teacher of the word, you first need to understand the scriptures snd teachings of Christ and the prophets as taught by God within the believer through the leading and teaching of Gods Holy Spirit.Faithful.
(kriss;51272)
It does say we are appointed once to die So thats a good reason to suspect the two wittness could be Elijah and Enoch The only one we know the name of is Elijah The name of the other wittness is educated guess's they could or could not be right.some have better reasoning than others but they are still only opinions.
Okay we are appointed once to die so that rules out Moses but what about Enoch and Elijah? If they were translated how can they die or were they not translated at all.
It does say we are appointed once to die So thats a good reason to suspect the two wittness could be Elijah and Enoch The only one we know the name of is Elijah The name of the other wittness is educated guess's they could or could not be right.some have better reasoning than others but they are still only opinions.
Okay we are appointed once to die so that rules out Moses but what about Enoch and Elijah? If they were translated how can they die or were they not translated at all.
Today seems to be the day for me to spread some heresies. So let me tell you this,The two lampstands are Moses and Elijah, they symbolically represent the 2 series of prophets sent and to be sent. John the Baptist belongs to the Elijah series, especially to the Son of Man. Paul is thus Moses, especially to the Son of Man.It sets a standard here for the end time prophets to follow, alternatively speaking, end time prophets are destined to follow this standard,- They belong to either of the 2 series.- They will die but will be raised back.- They will confront the devil in a more direct sense (even a face to face encounter).- They will torment the world with Truth, that some people will be driven crazy and will be more than happy to see them killed.- They will prophesy/reveal in a period of time.And you don't need to yell "it's heretic", I know.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: This an Unfulfilled prophecey we do not know who the other is for sure
in Matthew 17:12-13 and Mark 9:12-13, Christ said Elijah did come back... and Jesus does not lie. Why would Jesus say such a thing?if Jesus said he was, then I take Him at His Word... there's no reason to not trust Him, anyways
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