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The Two Witnesses

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by samy, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. setfree

    setfree New Member

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    Why would the two prophets not be part of the church?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Because we are told they are different God calls the churchs Candlesticks and the wittness's olive trees. there are two churchs he was pleased with one church (candlestick) is on each side of him and one Olive tree (wittness) stands beside each church clearly they are standing next to each other. They are differnt Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, "what are these TWO OLIVE TREES upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? (14) Then said he, "These are the TWO ANOINTED ONES, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."So, the Two Olive Trees are also the Two Anointed Ones...Then we are told:Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry and shall send gifts one to another; because these TWO PROPHETS tormented them that dwelt on the earth.The Two Olive Trees are the Two Anointed Ones and they are the Two Prophets.
     
  3. setfree

    setfree New Member

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    I just thought a prophet would be part of the church!
     
  4. setfree

    setfree New Member

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    When is a prophet not a part of the Church?
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    A true prophet is blessed by/or sent by God the proof of a true prophet is he 100% right 100% of the time he is of the true church of God that is his heart and mind are right. He is not necessarily associated with a mans church The word means a teacher, of a truth,it can be a future prophecy truth or a truth of Gods Words.If he does not do these things he is not a true prophet of God but a false one.Another Words if he predicts a future event it must happen if he teaches Gods Word it must align with Gods scripturethats how we are told to judge a prophet. If hes saying something we can not test against the Word he is not a true prophetDeu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
     
  6. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    (kriss;46807)
    So, to me, the Two Witnesses are separated into two different camps. One of the witnesses are His churches....us. The other of the two witnesses are the two olive trees...the two prophets/two anointed ones.(quote)yes I agree with this whirlwind
    I am so happy you see this Kriss. It was one of those :eek: moments for me. Once He opened my eyes to it I thought.....why didn't I see that before? I love those events. I dislike it when people offhandedly throw out, "Oh, the Holy Spirit led me to see that" or, "God told me" when it is about some mundane, everyday occurance but there are times when it REALLY HAPPENS. He REALLY opens eyes to His Word.......WOW is how I feel when he does. [​IMG]We are so blessed to be His children. :angel9:........Whirlwind
     
  7. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Samy, I thought about you when my studies led me to this verse. This is what I was looking for. Content, Luke 9, speaking of the transfiguration.Luke 9:31
    Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
    Now that the Word is clear on that.
     
  8. samy

    samy New Member

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    The great city is a social-economic system can be found in all cities of the world, where also are found all those who have ever been slain. You probably know that there are a large number of both ancient and current commentators on this passage that agree with my view (I agree with them). I did not ssimply hatch the view that the great city is not Jerusalem . samy
     
  9. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    The great city is a social-economic system can be found in all cities of the world, where also are found all those who have ever been slain. You probably know that there are a large number of both ancient and current commentators on this passage that agree with my view (I agree with them). I did not ssimply hatch the view that the great city is not Jerusalem . samy
    And similarly, I guess you have not gotten it that I care not for man's opinion. There are numerous "holy" this or that, but guess what, they're not the Word of God. I've shown you the passage that confirms it, but you choose not to believe it. So have at it, but I'll stick with the Word here, thanks.
     
  10. samy

    samy New Member

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    I note that neither you nor Kriss nor anyone even attempted an answer to the verse I pointed to at the end of chapter 18 in Revelation "And in her was found the blood of prophets , and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. " Why don't you shed some much needed light here? samy
     
  11. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Prophets are Basically God Manifested in Flesh once again. When Moses spoke on his opinion and to the Hebrew People, he was a Man. When he called forth the Plagues, SPEAKING THE WORD OF YHWH, That was God in Man. When Elijah was tired, sitting under the juniper Tree asking God for comfort, that was a Man. When he shut up the heavens for 3 Years, Speaking the LOGOS OF YHWH, that was God in a Man.Moses and Elijah are the Two Witnesses.
     
  12. setfree

    setfree New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;48566)
    Prophets are Basically God Manifested in Flesh once again. When Moses spoke on his opinion and to the Hebrew People, he was a Man. When he called forth the Plagues, SPEAKING THE WORD OF YHWH, That was God in Man. When Elijah was tired, sitting under the juniper Tree asking God for comfort, that was a Man. When he shut up the heavens for 3 Years, Speaking the LOGOS OF YHWH, that was God in a Man.Moses and Elijah are the Two Witnesses.
    That is profound, never heard it quite like that. Why Moses and Elijah, and not Elijah and Enoch? If it is appointed once to die, and these are not recorded as dying.....
     
  13. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    I think Moses and Elija are symbolic Metaphors for Jesus and the church.What say everybody?
     
  14. setfree

    setfree New Member

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    I thought Enoch represented Gentiles...before Abraham.Elijah represented Jews......................After Abraham.It states that these two were taken away, did they die a physical death?
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Do we have a clue Elijah is the prophet of all prophets, because of what happened on the mount of transfiguration. There Jesus was transfigured and in the presence of Moses and Elijah, as witnessed by Peter, James and John. We know who Elijah is in the company with Moses and Christ Christ being Lord are Elijah and Moses these two wittness's?Matthew 17:1 "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,"Is this sixth day a hint to the 6th trump which is the tribulation of Antichrist? Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light."Matthew 17: 3 "And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him." Moses appeared for the Law, and Elijah (Elias in the Greek) for the Prophets. So we see that Elijah is very special to God. Elijah is brought up as the sign of the closing of this earth age, as recorded in Malachi 4:5, 6; the very close of the Old Testament.Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:"Malachi 4:6 "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."We will see in the book of I Kings that Elijah was taken by God, and he did not die in the flesh body; for when John the Baptist came, he came in the spirit of Elijah. He wasn't Elijah, but "just before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord," Elijah will return to earth to "turn the hearts of all the children to their fathers." There are two fathers mentioned here the fake one and the true one, Satan is the first to come, and the Lord Jesus Christ will come second. Satan comes at the sixth trump, while Christ returns at the seventh and last trump. The truth will either turn the heart and mind to Satan, or to Jesus Christ. Remember what we are told about these two wittness the world will rejoice because these thorns in the side of Antichrist are dead all except the Elect So the Wittnessing will turn the hearts of the believers to Antichrist or the true Christ. It is for these reason I believe the Bible tells us Elijah is one of the wittness's and a good chance Moses is the other But Enoch and John are also canidates for the other wittness this is why I had to exclude the church/churches as being the wittness's
     
  16. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    (crooner;48585)
    I think Moses and Elija are symbolic Metaphors for Jesus and the church.What say everybody?
    How and Why? You better becareful if you are teaching people this. You are not Dividing the Word of God Rightfully so and this is not true. No offense Brother.Secondly, to Kris, JOHN THE BAPTIST is not Malachi 4:5. Remember Jesus said, he SHALL, FUTURE TENSE but Since John did not restore the Hearts of the Children back to the Fathers, he didn't fulfill Malachi 4:5. I believe Revelation 1:13, Revelation 10:7, Luke 17:30 And Malachi 4:5 Correlate with one another.Especially Malachi 4:5 and Revelation 10:7.
     
  17. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Brother Unorthodox, we definitely agree with Malachi 4:5. John the Baptist would have been Elijah - but he only came in the spirit of Elijah because Christ was not accepted.I lean towards the two that appeared at the transfiguration - which would confirm Elijah and provide Moses as the other. The only thing that suggests Enoch was the Moses was not known to be so much the speaker - going back to Exodus there. Enoch was incredibly wise although not much is written on him. One has to figure that maybe Enoch operates in a separate category.On top of that, Enoch and Elijah were the two that were taken. Moses died.Jude 1:9
    Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
     
  18. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    (Denver;48725)
    Brother Unorthodox, we definitely agree with Malachi 4:5. John the Baptist would have been Elijah - but he only came in the spirit of Elijah because Christ was not accepted.I lean towards the two that appeared at the transfiguration - which would confirm Elijah and provide Moses as the other. The only thing that suggests Enoch was the Moses was not known to be so much the speaker - going back to Exodus there. Enoch was incredibly wise although not much is written on him. One has to figure that maybe Enoch operates in a separate category.On top of that, Enoch and Elijah were the two that were taken. Moses died.Jude 1:9
    Glad to agree with you Brother. There are many who claim they were Malachi 4:5, Only One True Prophet of Malachi 4:5 came.Concerning the Two Witnesses, I used to Consider Enoch, But was he a Prophet that the Hebrew Children totally listened to, like Moses? The Purpose of the Prophet Commission of Revelation 11 is to Turn the Jews' Hearts to Jesus Christ. They told Jesus they will only listen to their Prophets. What Better two Prophets than the Law Giver and Elijah?
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;48714)
    How and Why? You better becareful if you are teaching people this. You are not Dividing the Word of God Rightfully so and this is not true. No offense Brother.Secondly, to Kris, JOHN THE BAPTIST is not Malachi 4:5. Remember Jesus said, he SHALL, FUTURE TENSE but Since John did not restore the Hearts of the Children back to the Fathers, he didn't fulfill Malachi 4:5. I believe Revelation 1:13, Revelation 10:7, Luke 17:30 And Malachi 4:5 Correlate with one another.Especially Malachi 4:5 and Revelation 10:7.
    I know that is true Unorthodox I dont think I ever said he was I said just the opposite I am agreement with both you and Denver here
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (crooner;48585)
    I think Moses and Elija are symbolic Metaphors for Jesus and the church.What say everybody?
    crooner Elijah is not a metaphor this is the Jewish believe as well as what scripture says Mal. 4:5 you been listening to that type teaching again? :)It will just confuse you more. It has to ignore or prevert to much scripture when something doesnt fit they say oh its a metaphor based on what ?? Be careful.
     
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