The unforgiveable sin ?

[BreadOfLife]

I said in post #18 that it shall not be forgiven. Now you say I agree with you that it can be forgiven. So, how is case closed? Maybe in your mind.

The unpardonable sin is not a question of eternal destiny.

Stranger

WHAT??
An unpardoned sin absolutely has eternal consequences.

Do you actually believe that you can sin against God - He refuses to pardon you - and you can STILL enter Heaven??
That is complete nonsense.

As for the sin being unpardonable - YOU said:
"If this sin is committed by a believer, then judgment from God will come. But his salvation is still secure. If this sin is committed by a non-believer, then judgement from God will come. But he can still be saved if he turns to Christ."

Either you are forgiven or you're not.
There is NO in-between . . .

 

[Stranger]

WHAT??
An unpardoned sin absolutely has eternal consequences.

Do you actually believe that you can sin against God - He refuses to pardon you - and you can STILL enter Heaven??
That is complete nonsense.

As for the sin being unpardonable - YOU said:
"If this sin is committed by a believer, then judgment from God will come. But his salvation is still secure. If this sin is committed by a non-believer, then judgement from God will come. But he can still be saved if he turns to Christ."

Either you are forgiven or you're not.
There is NO in-between . . .

Go back and reread my post #8. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the penalty paid. In other words, concerning eternal destiny, either your sins are paid for or they are not. It is not a question of if they are forgiven. Christ can forgive, because He paid the price. When He was dying on the cross, He was not forgiving sins, He was paying the price for sin.

Stranger

 

[Mungo]

Christ can forgive, because He paid the price. When He was dying on the cross, He was not forgiving sins, He was paying the price for sin.

Stranger

I've asked this before and you have never answered, so I expect you will dodge it this time.

What do you mean Jesus paid the price?

Is that literal or metaphoric?

Who did he pay this price to?

 

[Stranger]

I've asked this before and you have never answered, so I expect you will dodge it this time.

What do you mean Jesus paid the price?

Is that literal or metaphoric?

Who did he pay this price to?

Where did you ask this before that I did not answer? Be specific.

That Jesus paid the price for sin is literal. It is not a metaphor.

Jesus paid the price to God.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Go back and reread my post #8. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the penalty paid. In other words, concerning eternal destiny, either your sins are paid for or they are not. It is not a question of if they are forgiven. Christ can forgive, because He paid the price. When He was dying on the cross, He was not forgiving sins, He was paying the price for sin.

Stranger

He paid for all sins but the application of that is ONLY for those who repent.
NOBODY gets into Heaven having refused to repent.

This is Christianity 101 . . .

 

[Stranger]

He paid for all sins but the application of that is ONLY for those who repent.
NOBODY gets into Heaven having refused to repent.

This is Christianity 101 . . .

The subject in discussion is the sin that God will not forgive. Which is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

As I have said, Jesus was not forgiving sin on the cross. He was paying the price for sin. Forgiveness comes only after the price is paid. Else Christ cannot forgive.

Repentance is not even part of the equation here. The sin is unforgivable. The person who committed it will receive some serious judgement from God in this life.

Your problem here is that you want to make this sin a sin of finality meaning one is destined for hell and that cannot be changed. And that is not true. Ones eternal destiny is obtained only by faith in Christ as the Son of God and Saviour. Which means one can commit this sin and still be saved. They may not be. But they can be. With no help from you though.

Stranger

 

[dorian37grey]

what is missing from much of this talk is ...

will not be pardoned * in this life * or the next

this isnt about coming to Jesus ; this is about already coming to Jesus and then walking away

this isnt i wont forgive you ; it is * the process by which one is saved "" cant"" be done over again

something was used up ; the first time * and in fact --- no longer exists

making the process of salvation ( not unforgivable ) unpardonable ( not possible)

1 john 5: 16 -- speaks on this

sin not leading to death is only for those who have come to Christ * received the holy spirit

but to walk away after that point ( receiving the holy spirit ) would be blasphemy of the holy spirit

and ;

unable to get back to the point of receiving the holy spirit again

 

[Mungo]

Where did you ask this before that I did not answer? Be specific.

That Jesus paid the price for sin is literal. It is not a metaphor.

Jesus paid the price to God.

Stranger

You haven't answered my question "What do you mean Jesus paid the price?"

What is this "price"?

Jesus is God. Did Jesus pay this "price" to himself? That makes no sense.

 

[Born_Again]

Wow! Twinc pulled a seagull. Landed, crapped, and took off HAHA!!!

 

[Stranger]

You haven't answered my question "What do you mean Jesus paid the price?"

What is this "price"?

Jesus is God. Did Jesus pay this "price" to himself? That makes no sense.

Go to the 'Christian Debate Forum'. Find the subject "Why is Christianity so focused on sin". Go to post #64. Begin. Take notes and get back with me. You have several pages to go through.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

The subject in discussion is the sin that God will not forgive. Which is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

As I have said, Jesus was not forgiving sin on the cross. He was paying the price for sin. Forgiveness comes only after the price is paid. Else Christ cannot forgive.

Repentance is not even part of the equation here. The sin is unforgivable. The person who committed it will receive some serious judgement from God in this life.

Your problem here is that you want to make this sin a sin of finality meaning one is destined for hell and that cannot be changed. And that is not true. Ones eternal destiny is obtained only by faith in Christ as the Son of God and Saviour. Which means one can commit this sin and still be saved. They may not be. But they can be. With no help from you though.

Stranger

And your limited understanding of Scripture is what is confusing you.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in CONTEXT to what Jesus is saying about the Pharisees - is rejection of the Holy Spirit's guidance.
The Pharisees were claiming that Jesus received His powers from the Devil - not God. They knew better but refused to accept it.

Final impenitence is the ONLY thing that is unforgivable.

 

[Stranger]

And your limited understanding of Scripture is what is confusing you.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in CONTEXT to what Jesus is saying about the Pharisees - is rejection of the Holy Spirit's guidance.
The Pharisees were claiming that Jesus received His powers from the Devil - not God. They knew better but refused to accept it.

Final impenitence is the ONLY thing that is unforgivable.

Nothing is said of 'final impenitence'. That is a Romanist label to conform to a Romanist doctrine. As I said before, you err in understanding concerning 'forgiveness'. Was Christ forgiving Sin on the cross? Or was He paying the penalty for Sin on the Cross?

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nothing is said of 'final impenitence'. That is a Romanist label to conform to a Romanist doctrine. As I said before, you err in understanding concerning 'forgiveness'. Was Christ forgiving Sin on the cross? Or was He paying the penalty for Sin on the Cross?

Stranger

This is the overwhelming consensus of Christian scholarship - Catholic AND Protestant.
YOUR asinine position is your own invention . . .

 

[Stranger]

This is the overwhelming consensus of Christian scholarship - Catholic AND Protestant.
YOUR asinine position is your own invention . . .

I guess I'll just add those two to the list.

Stranger

 

[twinc]

And your limited understanding of Scripture is what is confusing you.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in CONTEXT to what Jesus is saying about the Pharisees - is rejection of the Holy Spirit's guidance.
The Pharisees were claiming that Jesus received His powers from the Devil - not God. They knew better but refused to accept it.

Final impenitence is the ONLY thing that is unforgivable.

yes-imho this sin is forgiveable but almost impossible for repentence is required and that is almost impossible for most and impossible for those already dead and buried - twinc

 

[Stranger]

yes-imho this sin is forgiveable but almost impossible for repentence is required and that is almost impossible for most and impossible for those already dead and buried - twinc

twinc

Then you ignore what Scripture says. It says it is "...it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." (Matt.12:32)

Repentance is not allowed here. It is not part of the equation. That is why it's called 'unforgivable'.

Stranger

 

[Mungo]

Go to the 'Christian Debate Forum'. Find the subject "Why is Christianity so focused on sin". Go to post #64. Begin. Take notes and get back with me. You have several pages to go through.

Stranger

As I expected you've dodged the question again!

 

[Stranger]

As I expected you've dodged the question again!

I've told you where the answer is. Don't blame me for your laziness. Or did you read it and see you have nothing more to offer? I'm thinking the latter.

Stranger

 

[Mungo]

I've told you where the answer is. Don't blame me for your laziness. Or did you read it and see you have nothing more to offer? I'm thinking the latter.

Stranger

I think we all know why you fail to answer the questions but try to send me off on a wild goose chase.

 

[Stranger]

I think we all know why you fail to answer the questions but try to send me off on a wild goose chase.

That's fine. Quit wasting your time.

Stranger