The unforgiveable sin ?

[Wormwood]

And so, (John 3:5-7), concerning the new-birth, must mean it was dealing with a specific act or need of Nicodemus.

Stranger

I don't think I am following you. Can you clarify for me?

 

[Stranger]

I don't think I am following you. Can you clarify for me?

Did Christ's statements about the new-birth only pertain to Nicodemus and those Jews or people Christ preached to? Or, do those statements mean that the new-birth is necessary for anyone of all generations in order to be saved?

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Read again. "I never knew you". Are you saying one can be a Christian, but Christ never knew them?

Stranger

Being a faithful or an unfaithful Christian is what a person does.
Holding them accountable is what GOD does.

 

[Stranger]

Being a faithful or an unfaithful Christian is what a person does.
Holding them accountable is what GOD does.

Again, Are you saying one can be a Christian, but Christ never knew them?

Stranger

 

[Wormwood]

Did Christ's statements about the new-birth only pertain to Nicodemus and those Jews or people Christ preached to? Or, do those statements mean that the new-birth is necessary for anyone of all generations in order to be saved?

Stranger

Well, I would say that because it had meaning for Nicodemus, it has meaning to all of us. Those words were recorded for a purpose. Not only did Jesus have an audience in Nicodemus when he spoke those words, but John had an audience when he penned them and had a reason for doing so....which I believe is so that we understand the need of new birth. I guess I am looking for your point here in asking this.

 

[Stranger]

Well, I would say that because it had meaning for Nicodemus, it has meaning to all of us. Those words were recorded for a purpose. Not only did Jesus have an audience in Nicodemus when he spoke those words, but John had an audience when he penned them and had a reason for doing so....which I believe is so that we understand the need of new birth. I guess I am looking for your point here in asking this.

'had meaning' doesn't carry the same meaning as 'pertain to'.

Did Christ tell Nicodemus that he needed to be born again? Do these same verses tell us, and any who read them, that we need to be born again?

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again, Are you saying one can be a Christian, but Christ never knew them?

Stranger

The people in Matt. 7:21-23 believed that they were Christians. they did everything that they were supposed to.
They were shocked that Jesus was rejecting them.

However, like YOU - they rejected His Church, which He identifies His very self with (Acts 9:4-5).
Remember - Jesus never called anybody to be a "Christian". That word was invented by men in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

 

[Born_Again]

The people in Matt. 7:21-23 believed that they were Christians. they did everything that they were supposed to.
They were shocked that Jesus was rejecting them.

However, like YOU - they rejected His Church, which He identifies His very self with (Acts 9:4-5).
Remember - Jesus never called anybody to be a "Christian". That word was invented by men in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

Exactly! That should about sum it up.

 

[Stranger]

The people in Matt. 7:21-23 believed that they were Christians. they did everything that they were supposed to.
They were shocked that Jesus was rejecting them.

However, like YOU - they rejected His Church, which He identifies His very self with (Acts 9:4-5).
Remember - Jesus never called anybody to be a "Christian". That word was invented by men in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

No, the people didn't believe they were Christians. There were no Christians at this time. The Church had not started yet. No doubt they felt they were in the kingdom or should be in the kingdom. But they were not.

No, they didn't do everything they were supposed to. If they had they would have been received into the kingdom.

Jesus never called anyone to receive the church to be saved either. It is always faith in Christ.

So, you see. It is not quite 'summed up'. You have much to learn about the Church and the Kingdom. Not that you will.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, the people didn't believe they were Christians. There were no Christians at this time. The Church had not started yet. No doubt they felt they were in the kingdom or should be in the kingdom. But they were not.

No, they didn't do everything they were supposed to. If they had they would have been received into the kingdom.

Jesus never called anyone to receive the church to be saved either. It is always faith in Christ.

So, you see. It is not quite 'summed up'. You have much to learn about the Church and the Kingdom. Not that you will.

Stranger

Wrong on ALL counts.

Jesus was talking about a FUTURE even, where HE is judging the dead who claim that they cast out demons and did mighty works in HIS name.
They did everything that they THOUGHT they were supposed to do. Apparently, they, like YOU forgot to obey His will.

As for your false claim about the Church - Jesus gave His Church SUPREME Authority on earth - that whatever it ordained on earth would also be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

 

[lforrest]

If this conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus weren't important to someone else, John wouldn't have been directed by the Holy Spirit to write it in his Gospel. How many late night conversations do you think Jesus had that weren't recorded? Must have been quite a few over his 3 year ministry.

 

[Stranger]

Wrong on ALL counts.

Jesus was talking about a FUTURE even, where HE is judging the dead who claim that they cast out demons and did mighty works in HIS name.
They did everything that they THOUGHT they were supposed to do. Apparently, they, like YOU forgot to obey His will.

As for your false claim about the Church - Jesus gave His Church SUPREME Authority on earth - that whatever it ordained on earth would also be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Says you.

Future? OK. What do you base (Matt. 7:21-23) as being a judgement of the dead?

What false claims about the Church are you saying I am saying?

Stranger

 

[Wormwood]

'had meaning' doesn't carry the same meaning as 'pertain to'.

Did Christ tell Nicodemus that he needed to be born again? Do these same verses tell us, and any who read them, that we need to be born again?

Stranger

yes and yes. Again, Im searching for your point.

 

[Stranger]

yes and yes. Again, Im searching for your point.

My point is that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin, can be committed today. Your comments in post #56 indicate that it was only a sin that could be committed under the certain circumstances existing when Christ walked this earth.

What I am saying is, just as the new birth was needed for Nicodemus, so it is needed for us also. Just as the unpardonable sin was committed by the Pharisees, so can others commit it today.

But, as I have said, unforgivable does not speak to a loss of salvation or that one cannot be saved. It speaks to a certain judgment from God that is coming due to this sin.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Says you.

Future? OK. What do you base (Matt. 7:21-23) as being a judgement of the dead?

What false claims about the Church are you saying I am saying?

Stranger

Of course it's the judgment of the dead.
It says, "Many will say to me on THAT DAY . . ."

"That Day" refers to judgement, as it does in other places in Scripture (Joel 2:1-2, Malachi 4:5, Acts 17:30-31, 1 Cor. 1:81, Thess. 5:2, 2 Thess. 2:2, 2 Pet. 3:10, Jude 1:6).

As for your false claim about the church - YOU said:
"Jesus never called anyone to receive the church to be saved either. It is always faith in Christ."

However - JESUS said about His Church:
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the MONE who sent me."

Jesus never said that all you needed to do was believe in Him.
He ALWAYS qualified it with obedience.

 

[dorian37grey]

just to point out ; another view ...

My point is that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin, can be committed today. Your comments in post #56 indicate that it was only a sin that could be committed under the certain circumstances existing when Christ walked this earth.

What I am saying is, just as the new birth was needed for Nicodemus, so it is needed for us also. Just as the unpardonable sin was committed by the Pharisees, so can others commit it today.

But, as I have said, unforgivable does not speak to a loss of salvation or that one cannot be saved. It speaks to a certain judgment from God that is coming due to this sin.

Stranger

a few things i question ...

1-unpardonable sin by the pharisees ??? did the know the holy spirit ; to blaspheme him?
2- an un-forgiven sin in heaven ? ??? seems like a loss of salvation

 

[Stranger]

just to point out ; another view ...


a few things i question ...

1-unpardonable sin by the pharisees ??? did the know the holy spirit ; to blaspheme him?
2- an un-forgiven sin in heaven ? ??? seems like a loss of salvation

Christ said they knew. Do you need to know more?

Unforgivable in heaven? Who said that? And, what is it that is unforgivable? Seems like doesn't pay the rent.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Of course it's the judgment of the dead.
It says, "Many will say to me on THAT DAY . . ."

"That Day" refers to judgement, as it does in other places in Scripture (Joel 2:1-2, Malachi 4:5, Acts 17:30-31, 1 Cor. 1:81, Thess. 5:2, 2 Thess. 2:2, 2 Pet. 3:10, Jude 1:6).

As for your false claim about the church - YOU said:
"Jesus never called anyone to receive the church to be saved either. It is always faith in Christ."

However - JESUS said about His Church:
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the MONE who sent me."

Jesus never said that all you needed to do was believe in Him.
He ALWAYS qualified it with obedience.

Again, nothing says it is the judgement of the dead.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again, nothing says it is the judgement of the dead.

Stranger

And, as I educated you before - when the Bible speaks of the"DAY" of the Lord - it is talking about the Day of Judgment (Joel 2:1-2, Malachi 4:5, Acts 17:30-31, 1 Cor. 1:81, Thess. 5:2,2 Thess. 2:2, 2 Pet. 3:10, Jude 1:6).

 

[Stranger]

And, as I educated you before - when the Bible speaks of the"DAY" of the Lord - it is talking about the Day of Judgment (Joel 2:1-2, Malachi 4:5, Acts 17:30-31, 1 Cor. 1:81, Thess. 5:2,2 Thess. 2:2, 2 Pet. 3:10, Jude 1:6).

Again, nothing in Matt. 7:21-23 is addressing the 'Day of the LORD', or the dead in judgment. It is talking about the entrance into the 'Kingdom of Heaven'. List all the verses you like concerning the 'Day of the LORD'. They don't apply to Matt. 7:21-23.

The 'Kingdom of Heaven' is not the Church. It is the rule of Christ on earth through the nation Israel. It comes through the preaching of the 'Gospel of the Kingdom'. (Matt.3:1-2) "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.) (Matt. 4:17) "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

(Matt. 5-7), known as the 'Sermon on the Mount', are the rules and laws which will govern that kingdom. And this 'Gospel of the Kingdom' was to Israel alone. (Matt. 10:5-7) " These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying,The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Your confusion is the result of what I call a 'big bag doctrine'. You don't differentiate between the different groups of people that Scripture addresses, or the different judgments the Scripture addresses, or the different laws Scripture addresses, or the different times Scripture addresses. . You throw everything in one big bag shake it up, it is all about one people, one judgement, one set of laws, etc. etc.

Yes, you educate on what you believe. But what you are believing is wrong.

Stranger