The Unsaved Man Does Not Need To “Stop Sinning”

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't understand this forum, I can't work out who likes who or who doesn't. Someone suddenly comes out with harsh words towards another and I'm looking around me, as though to say "Where on earth did that come from".

Lambano is a dear brother to me. He is striving to juggle all the balls at once. He gets grumpy when he forgets and drops one, but he is all bark and no bite. He’s a big softie! He is extremely honest.

 

[doxley]

Lambano is a dear brother to me. He is striving to juggle all the balls at once. He gets grumpy when he forgets and drops one, but he is all bark and no bite. He’s a big softie! He is extremely honest.

Ah, I see. I'll get used to it all I suppose. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Pearl]

There is a basic dishonesty with Western believers. On the one hand they will say that to stop sinning means only to stop a LIFESTYLE of sin...because they don't believe in resurrection life that overcomes ALL sin. So that is unbelief in the gospel in itself.

But then these same deniers will claim that ALL non- Christians live in a lifestyle of sin...which is ludicrous. Travel the world and go see the poor who suffer every day just to survive. Now compare that lifestyle with right Westerners who enjoy so many benefits and pleasures. Can we not see WHO is headed for judgment? Is the rich Western world (dogmatic beliefs notwithstanding) not under the "woes" of the Lord?

Who is wise nowadays?

All are sinners in the words of the bible, but not all live sinful lives. They are sinners due to the fact that they are not reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is a basic dishonesty with Western believers. On the one hand they will say that to stop sinning means only to stop a LIFESTYLE of sin...because they don't believe in resurrection life that overcomes ALL sin. So that is unbelief in the gospel in itself.

But then these same deniers will claim that ALL non- Christians live in a lifestyle of sin...which is ludicrous. Travel the world and go see the poor who suffer every day just to survive. Now compare that lifestyle with right Westerners who enjoy so many benefits and pleasures. Can we not see WHO is headed for judgment? Is the rich Western world (dogmatic beliefs notwithstanding) not under the "woes" of the Lord?

Who is wise nowadays?

This happens when people look at the standard of morality where they are and not gods standard of morality

anyone who looks at god and does not see how sinful they are are deceived and have not understood gods standard

remember john How did he react to an angel? Or Daniel or others that came into the presence of god or spirit beings who collapsed on fear for knowing truly how sinful they were

who are we to think we are better than them

people have focus on self and not a focus on others then judge them because they sin while Ignoring their own sin

 

[Pearl]

Ah, I see. I'll get used to it all I suppose. Thanks for letting me know.

Yes stick with us. There are some good threads.

 

[Episkopos]

All are sinners in the words of the bible, but not all live sinful lives. They are sinners due to the fact that they are not reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus.

Sinners sin no matter how deceived they are to believe otherwise. The grace of God overcomes sin....in truth...not just in a false religious doctrinal bent. So you have been deceived by the teachings of men. Men are powerless...and the false gospel is also powerless.

Righteous is as righteous does. Saints walk without sin. Immature believers sin because they are "yet carnal." They are learning to trust in the Lord for His life and provision.

The WHOLE world has been reconciled to God by the sacrifice of Christ....not just believers. It is as we enter into Christ and walk in His life that we overcome sin, the devil and the world.

So you are putting your trust in a religious formula that actually isn't biblical. We are to walk in resurrection life without sin.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and He is the saviour of ALL men...especially those who believe (but not exclusively). So you are confusing God's mercy with His grace...as men teach.

 

[GEN2REV]

Amen!, Thats why we need to be made into a new creation, through christ.

A dog returns to his vomit because he is still a dog. He does not know any better. When we are made into new creation, our need of sin (to serve self) is removed. Only then can we start to grow into the knowledge and grace of Christ, and start to see victory over sin.

You guys become predictable after just a few rounds of interaction with you.

The verses that speak of dogs returning to their vomit, and pigs returning to their wallowing in the mud, are speaking of Christians, of those who have been led to the ways of salvation, Jesus' Ways, and who have "escaped the pollutions of the world" and then abandon what they have learned and return to their old sinful ways.

"For if after they have escaped pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy Commandment (10 Commandments) delivered to them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
2 Peter 2:20-22

 

[Pearl]

Sinners sin no matter how deceived they are to believe otherwise. The grace of God overcomes sin....in truth...not just in a false religious doctrinal bent. So you have been deceived by the teachings of men. Men are powerless...and the false gospel is also powerless.

Righteous is as righteous does. Saints walk without sin. Immature believers sin because they are "yet carnal." They are learning to trust in the Lord for His life and provision.

The WHOLE world has been reconciled to God by the sacrifice of Christ....not just believers. It is as we enter into Christ and walk in His life that we overcome sin, the devil and the world.

So you are putting your trust in a religious formula that actually isn't biblical. We are to walk in resurrection life without sin.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and He is the saviour of ALL men...especially those who believe (but not exclusively). So you are confusing God's mercy with His grace...as men teach.

Those who are in Christ - true spiritually renewed Christians as opposed to churchgoers or those who just believe but have done nothing about it - according to the bible are no longer called sinners but saints,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You guys become predictable after just a few rounds of interaction with you.

Typical response from someone who does not understand the truth of the gospel

The verses that speak of dogs returning to their vomit, and pigs returning to their wallowing in the mud, are speaking of Christians, of those who have been led to the ways of salvation, Jesus' Ways, and who have "escaped the pollutions of the world" and then abandon what they have learned and return to their old sinful ways.

"For if after they have escaped pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy Commandment (10 Commandments) delivered to them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
2 Peter 2:20-22

No its not. A christian is not a dog. Nor is he a swine, he is a new believer. A new creation. They do not return to their sin. Jhn makes this clear whoever sins has never seen or known God whoever is born of God does not sin (speaking of lifestyle of habitual sin)

A christian does not return to his former self. He had no power to make himself into a new creation. He certainly does not have th power to undo what God did

He is talking to people who THINK they are christian, Who go to church or to the temple or to whever the church meets. And have left. And returned to their sin.


Why do you people come into a christian chat room, yet show so little faith in the work of God to do what he said he will do?

 

[Pearl]

You guys become predictable after just a few rounds of interaction with you.

The verses that speak of dogs returning to their vomit, and pigs returning to their wallowing in the mud, are speaking of Christians, of those who have been led to the ways of salvation, Jesus' Ways, and who have "escaped the pollutions of the world" and then abandon what they have learned and return to their old sinful ways.

"For if after they have escaped pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy Commandment (10 Commandments) delivered to them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
2 Peter 2:20-22

Psalm 103:12
as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

 

[doxley]

So I want to set a scenario around this issue.

There is a couple of people. They are gay, they are married and totally monogamous. They are born again believers, have been since before they came out of the closet. Their conscience tells them God understands them and accepts them, because to them, being gay is as inherent in their personal make up as someone who is heterosexual. Are they covered by grace?

I don't know, I'm asking.

 

[Pearl]

So I want to set a scenario around this issue.

There is a couple of people. They are gay, they are married and totally monogamous. They are born again believers, have been since before they came out of the closet. Their conscience tells them God understands them and accepts them, because to them, being gay is as inherent in their personal make up as someone who is heterosexual. Are they covered by grace?

I don't know, I'm asking.

I don't know either. I think we should accept people as they are and it's up to God to Judge.

 

[doxley]

I don't know either. I think we should accept people as they are and it's up to God to Judge.

I personally think that's the right answer too. But I just wondered what people here thought who have strong feelings about the issue of grace covering sins

 

[marks]

I have seen certain people over the years abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection, yet Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

And/or are just not self-aware.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

I personally think that's the right answer too. But I just wondered what people here thought who have strong feelings about the issue of grace covering sins

There are some pretty strong views.

 

[marks]

This happens when people look at the standard of morality where they are and not gods standard of morality

Yes, and we should avoid judging by appearances.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The WHOLE world has been reconciled to God by the sacrifice of Christ....not just believers. It is as we enter into Christ and walk in His life that we overcome sin, the devil and the world.

But the whole world has not received that reconciliation.

What does it mean to be reconciled to God?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You guys become predictable after just a few rounds of interaction with you.

The verses that speak of dogs returning to their vomit, and pigs returning to their wallowing in the mud, are speaking of Christians, of those who have been led to the ways of salvation, Jesus' Ways, and who have "escaped the pollutions of the world" and then abandon what they have learned and return to their old sinful ways.

"For if after they have escaped pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy Commandment (10 Commandments) delivered to them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
2 Peter 2:20-22

Knowledge doesn't save.

Much love!

 

[Abigail]

They have 12 step programs for sex, alcohol, drugs, tobacco, gambling, etc. So I think it's OK to tell the unsaved to quit sinning. People do it all the time.

Do they?
Tell them to stop sinning without telling them the whole story about what sin is and how to stop?

 

[GEN2REV]

So I want to set a scenario around this issue.

There is a couple of people. They are gay, they are married and totally monogamous. They are born again believers, have been since before they came out of the closet. Their conscience tells them God understands them and accepts them, because to them, being gay is as inherent in their personal make up as someone who is heterosexual. Are they covered by grace?

I don't know, I'm asking.

The Bible, God's Word, has this to say about it:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators (those who have sex with anyone they are not married to), nor idolaters, nor adulterers (sex outside of marriage), nor effeminate (men who act like women), nor abusers of themselves with mankind (sodomites), nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

The homosexual lifestyle is abomination to God. It is a disgrace to Him and also to mankind. It insults Him and His creation made in His image.

"... the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: ..."
Revelation 21:8

As long as that hypothetical couple continue to live the homosexual lifestyle, as practicing homosexuals, there is no way for them to be right with God. He is the Creator and He makes the rules.

Per scripture, they must come to know the profound nature of their offense to God, must feel sincere guilt and shame deep in their hearts and fully repent (stop, and put away for good, all sin) of all homosexual activity in order to ever be saved.

That is all per scripture.