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Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by stunnedbygrace, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    First thanks for the reply.
    Second, by removing Enoch he was not killed, or see death. for the Earth was full of violence. and there was plenty of prophets who lost their life, not only to an enemy nation, but at the hands of their own PEOPLE. and it's no different even today.

    but in hebrews God just move/transported him to another part of the planet, if God had other work for him to do, I don't know. but one thing for sure Hebrews 11:13 is not lying.

    Just as Elijah was nearing the end of his ministry, God removed him to another part of the land, and this was not the first time this happen to Elijah.

    as I said before, Philip was in a like manner taken away/transported to another place in the land. scripture,
    Acts 8:39 "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

    Acts 8:40 "But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

    that term "caught away" is the same term many use for the rapture,
    G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo (har-pa'-zō) v.
    to seize.
    {in various applications}
    [from a derivative of G138]
    KJV: catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force)
    Root(s): G138

    but Philip didn't leave the planet, but was lifted up off, or above the surface and was "TRANSLATED/MOVER" to another place, for he was found at Azotus. see it now.

    Enoch died just like Elijah and Moses and every other man on this planet.

    Hoped that helped.

    PICJAG.
     
    Nancy likes this.
  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    "By faith Enoch was translated so that he would not see death . . ."

    It looks to me that you have a little conflict here . . .

    Much love!
     
  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    not at all. he just didn't see death where he was... :) so God moved him.

    but he did die a natural death.

    PICJAG.

    PS to all, I 'll be out for a few hours, but will be back soon.
     
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  4. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    But in this line of inquiry you did not I would guess check out heaven itself. Where, when and what is heaven? Genesis says that "God took him" and Hebrews says that "God translated him". Neither of those verses mention heaven, but then you went to John 3:13 where it speaks, I believe, of Jesus being [as I understand it] in all three heavens. Did God also take Moses so they could not him to bury him nor could they a place where he had been buried. Did God also take Elijah so that the search for him by the prophets was unsuccessful? Then again a pertinent question here might be what is death to God? Man calls people living but Jesus calls them dead. Jesus was seeing as God sees, but do we or can we?
     
  5. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I considered there being at least 3 levels of heaven. :) but the man was being so rabid about his opinions that I didn't even bother bringing it up for fear of yet another tirade!
     
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  6. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    What and you have the evidence of this. I would rather have faith in the Living Word Jesus Christ and the Power of God than a book. You have absolutely no evidence that Enoch died. None, but it shoots holes in mens idol.
     
  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    Hebrews 11:2 "For by it the elders obtained a good report.

    Hebrews 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

    Hebrews 11:8 "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    Hebrews 11:9 "By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    Hebrews 11:10 "For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Hebrews 11:11 "Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    Hebrews 11:12 "Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

    Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


    NOW, do "U" believe the bible? once again, let's see,
    Psalms 89:46 "How long, LORD? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?

    Psalms 89:47 "Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?

    Psalms 89:48 "What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah." (I SUGGEST YOU READ THAT VERSE AGAIN). also, we suggest you read your commentary on this verse.
    Every living man must die; as sure as a man lives, so sure he shall die

    John 8:51 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
    and this DEATH is the "SECOND" Death, so if you living now you will see death, unless you're alive at the time when Lord Returns to gather his people.... :eek: other than this, the Rock in roll song is true, "Another one bit the dust".

    PICJAG.
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    @marks , and @stunnedbygrace
    maybe these scriptures can help you understand what we're saying about a man dying, and how God translated/Transported some men.

    as with mjrhealth reply, see the above answer in the reply there at Post #187. now the Scriptures,

    This was not the first time Elijah was transported to another place on the planet.

    2 kings first,
    2 Kings 2:16 "And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send". (Hold that thought, "some valley", because we'll see this again).

    2 Kings 2:17 "And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not." (see, they didn't find him, REMEMBER this is 1 Kings, this happen before 2 kings. now listen,

    1 kings
    Obadiah brings Ahab to Elijah
    1 Kings 18:9 "And he said, What have I sinned, that thou wouldest deliver thy servant into the hand of Ahab, to slay me?

    1 Kings 18:10 "As the LORD thy God liveth, there is no nation or kingdom, whither my lord hath not sent to seek thee: and when they said, He is not there; he took an oath of the kingdom and nation, that they found thee not. (see that they found him not). just like Enoch, he was not found.)

    1 Kings 18:11 "And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here.

    1 Kings 18:12 "And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; (BINGO, there is the confirmation. Elijah was taken up before, and was not found, see this taking up by the Spirit was not into the 3rd. heaven, no just the "SKY", as with Philip, he was moved by the Spirit, "caught up, but was found at Azotus), and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth. (see it now? "if Ahab could not find Elijah, because he was taken away, the king might kill Obadiah). I know you can see it now.

    1 Kings 18:13 "Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD'S prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water?

    1 Kings 18:14 "And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here: and he shall slay me.

    1 Kings 18:15 "And Elijah said, As the LORD of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, I will surely shew myself unto him to day.

    1 Kings 18:16 "So Obadiah went to meet Ahab, and told him: and Ahab went to meet Elijah.

    SO THIS WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME ELIJAH WAS MOVED, OR TAKEN UP BY GOD. AND THIS IS 1 KINGS.

    I hope you both can see it now.

    Enoch and Elijah both died natural deaths.

    Now @CharismaticLady
    when you asked about the "plague" well listen,
    Hosea 13:14 "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes".
    BINGO, another one for the witness of the Lord Jesus, as with Moses.

    PICJAG.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  9. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    so you can quote scripture so can I,. it proves nothing. You dont believe the bit I posted so why should I believe yours, funny thing the bible they all say its the word , and than te hya ll disagree with one another over whos right,
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, to all.
    First, thanks for the reply. second, we can take your response as, ........ you really don't have a response. for if you did you would have pointed out a mistake or error in the 1 kings or the 2 kings scriptures we posted. but no you gave a none reprovable babbling, which means you have no answer to the scriptures, oh well.....

    understand, I'm not just only quoting scriptures, but actually showing what they mean, by them. but no problems, my Job is done I have told you the truth. so when you stand before the GREAT Judge, you will no excuse.
    Good Day.

    PICJAG.
     
  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it doesn't say that is what happened.

    And it doesn't have any bearing on Enoch.

    Much love!
     
  12. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    First thanks for the reply, second, Obadiah, here in 1 Kings, was afraid to brings Ahab to Elijah if he was not to be found when the king arrived. because if he was taken up and removed/transported some where else, then the king, as he said would slay him. but Elijah reassured him that he would be there when the king arrived. that's easy to understand.

    and with enoch, Hebrews 11:13 sealed that on his natural death.

    Now if you cannot comprehend this, don't worry about it. as the apostle said, by the Lord, one plant another water, but it's God who give the increase.


    now I'm not going to argue over this, so I'll leave you with this,
    Matthew 15:8 "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    Matthew 15:9 "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    PICJAG.
     
  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Nice thing to leave someone with I suppose.

    Don't worry, I wasn't planning on debating you over it, you and I have a different way of reading these passages.

    So you would like to imply that I honor God with my lips, but my heart is far from Him, is that the point? Tell me . . . why do you feel that is necessary?

    Much love!
     
  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    the proof is in the pudding. How can a good tree bare bad fruit, or a fountian fresh and salt.

    see marks we have been brainwashed for a long time, hence we worship with our lips in vain. for we must worship in Spirit and in ........ TRUTH. so what's the TRUTH, all men die. none was privilege over another, for God is no respector of Person.

    and no man have gone to heaven before any other man, except he who came from heaven. now if Enoch and Elijah came from heaven with flesh bone and blood, then I'll close my bible as well as my mouth, (lips). neither will I worship nor prase if that was true.

    I used to believe those lies, and yes, there was many of them. but until a man re-new his mind then nothing changes. the whole purpose of "REPENTANCE" is to change one's mind. as was I with the trinty, yes I once believed in the trinity, until the Lord open my eyes to the truth.

    change is hard, and the rejecting of the truth is so easy. but I learned the hard way, maybe that's why I so adamant about what I believe now. when the Light of the truth comes, then there is no darkness at all and things began to fit, not fitting to me, but me to God holy word.

    so I cannot change your mind, only tell you, God is the only one who can.

    as said, what I use to believe in, I found out I was INCORRECT. notice I found out, it was the Lord who showed me that I was wrong in what I believed. and that's who will show you that what you believe is INCORRECT. that's why I cannot argue about it. until you see for yourself then all the tea in china want change your mind.

    you must know for yourself (read that again). as the scriptures states "EXAMINE" yourself. meaning check out what you believe is true. you're your own best decision maker. check out what is written, see if it is true as you was taught.

    Marks, you seems to be a level headed person, examine yourself, and examine what has been posted, and make a decision . you seem to be a rightious person, in all earnest see if what the scriptures is saying is true or not. and once you make you decision , you don't have to say anything, just keep it to yourself, and praise God for it. I know you will make the right decision

    PICJAG

    PICJAG.
     
  15. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Sound words.

    You need to check the syntax on that, no one has ascended on their own, but nothing says that no one has been brought into heaven.

    You say I've been brainwashed, I say I read my Bible. ?

    Much love!
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    no need to, for no man came from heaven, nor was any carried there or went on their own.

    PICJAC.
     
  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    This is the part you cannot support from Scripture.
     
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    oh yes we can, because no man was brought "FROM" heaven, now give bible for a man of flesh bone and blood coming from heaven? scripture. none because none never came from heaven.

    now if you cannot understand the scriptures sorry for you.

    PICJAG.
     
  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    How does whether or not someone was "brought from heaven" affect whether or not someone could, or may have been brought into heaven?

    Much love!
     
  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we should feel sorry for anyone who cannot understand the Scriptures I suppose!
     
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