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Frank Lee

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When I look at the Bible I see much. Every account of the people there that went through horrible ordeals had God help them even though many died in hardship.

I see brother Paul that wrote the most inspiring words ever from a cold stone cell awaiting execution by a Caesar. How few are my afflictions.

In my ignorance I knew not that being a recipient of many miracles would set my family up as a large target for the adversary. Like having gold bars on your collar in the scope of an enemy sniper. My son as foretold to us has been greatly afflicted. We have no choice but to trust Him fully, as much as in us.

God gives grace for the times. As a child we are hidden from much, well some are. Later in life He brings us to see, feel the grief of those around us. It is a a maturing process. When He begins to show you others your own situation does not seem so bad.

I see that He has placed my family as watchmen. I weep and lament over the condition of the church in this backsliding nation.

I wonder at abortion when we cried out for 14 years for babies we could not have. The Lord shuts wombs and, He opens them.

The sheer numbers of Americans weeping for an evil politician that lost and railing against those set as by God as leaders horrifies me.

Plenty to pray about. Christians that will put away from themselves everything but the Bible and prayer seeking His face with their might, will come by anointing to understand much. But His peace and joy is the pearl in this life.

Hold to it with your might.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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VJ in your OP, I missed what now I believe you're getting at. God is angry at sin and hence the reason for the next verses. listen,

Isaiah 63:4 "For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me".

If I understand you correctly, God is providing a way from destruction. see if one doesn't believe the gospel as to WHAT "HE" DID ON THE CROSS. yes at harvest time those will perish. but God have given GOOD NEWS in these verses. also, listen, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you".

see at judgment/harvest those who refuse to obey his gospel will meet his vengeance, but those who do obey, recompence or goodwill, the white throne judgment where the rewards are handed out.

see, he has given all of us a heads up here in Isaiah. Believe what he has done for you., about your sin, it REMOVED. just read John 3:16 to 3:21

this is why the Gospel is the OLD and New Testament, the SAME gospel. for the apostle said, "what was written aforetime is for our learning".

PCY.

Can you tell what these verses mean?

Ezekiel 38:16
[16] And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

"When I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes." ??

Ezekiel 36:22-23
[22] Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God ; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. [23] And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord , saith the Lord God , when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

How? Why?
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. thanks for the reply, and the asking.
no scripture is anyone's private interpretation. these scriptures are self-explanatory.
Ezekiel 38:16
[16] And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

"When I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes." ??

when God repeats something, God's judgment is set and final. God, in inflicting deserved punishment on the enemies of his people. when his GREATNESS, his power and faithfulness will be displayed, in fulfilling those prophecies concerning Gog or the UNBELIEVERS.

sanctified here means "clean", or the TRUTH REVEALED. the infidels, or the NONE BELIEVERS will be convinced of the truth of the divine revelation of the God of Israel is the true and only God. "that these none believers may know the vengeance of God's power. see, if one doesn't want the easy way to believe, then God have a hard way of teaching his truth.

Ezekiel 36:22-23
[22] Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God ; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. [23] And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord , saith the Lord God , when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

How? Why?
ok, the word profane here is as blasphemed in Romans 4:24 Read that. the Jews did not worship God correctly (in spirit and in truth). so God put an end to their ways. he did it on the cross. no more sacrifice, solemn and holy days. this is why we have Christianity today. for God as a man died for our sins. no man was worthy, so it was God who saves. as he said, "I do not this for your sakes". God gave a promise, (his word) and God keeps his promise even if we in a covenant with him don't keep ours.

God promised to save man and he did. also, read. 2Tim 2:10-13, especially notice verse 13 there. then Isa 43:25.

hope this help.

PCY
 

VictoryinJesus

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GINOLJC, to all. thanks for the reply, and the asking.
no scripture is anyone's private interpretation. these scriptures are self-explanatory.

Who taught you the diversified oneness of God? Why and how are you certain when opposing the trinity as a false teaching? How do you know about: The right hand of power? Did men teach you?
 

VictoryinJesus

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sanctified here means "clean", or the TRUTH REVEALED.

Sanctified here means "clean"? As in
Acts 11:6-9
[6] Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [7] And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. [8] But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. [9] But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Or different?

the infidels, or the NONE BELIEVERS will be convinced of the truth of the divine revelation of the God of Israel is the true and only God. "that these none believers may know the vengeance of God's power.

Romans 9:17
[17] For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
 

Harvest 1874

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Can you tell what these verses mean?

Ezekiel 38:16
[16] And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

"When I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes." ??

Ezekiel 36:22-23
[22] Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God ; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. [23] And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord , saith the Lord God , when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

How? Why?

Let us begin with your second text first, Ezek 36:22-23

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God ; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.”

“God will do these things for His “name’s sake,” not for Israel’s sake. We are reminded of Moses’ reasoning: “If you destroy all the Israelite's except me, the heathen will reason that you were not able to save them.” In other words, to vindicate His holy name, God will restore Israel in love and mercy. If He did not do so, the world might think He lacked the ability since the Israelite's were called His people. Although not stated here, another reason to restore Israel is because of the “fathers” such as Abraham and Isaac—“even the sure mercies of David” (Rom. 11:28; Isa. 55:3). God will be sanctified (vindicated) in Israel when He fights for them in Jacob’s Trouble, bringing a successful conclusion. The final aspect will be the real eye-opener—when God deals with them directly through miracles and the Ancient Worthies. The preparatory work going on now and for some time (with regards to Israel) is not recognized by the world.”

As for the other, Ezek 38:16

And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.”

“Much of these verses are repetitive except that Verse 16 reveals God’s purpose: He will be sanctified (vindicated) in Gog before the eyes of Israel and surviving Gentiles. How? When God’s fury comes up into His face and He defeats Gog with stupendous miracles and upheavals in nature and the Holy Remnant is rescued, it will be obvious that superhuman power is being used. In the destruction of this multitudinous host, God’s glory and power will be magnified in the sight of the survivors, both Jew and Gentile. God will be magnified and revealed as the God of Israel, and the surviving Gentiles will return to their homelands to give eyewitness accounts.”

(Extracts taken from “The Book of Ezekiel” by Brother Frank Shallieu)
 
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101G

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Who taught you the diversified oneness of God? Why and how are you certain when opposing the trinity as a false teaching? How do you know about: The right hand of power? Did men teach you?
First thanks for the reply.

No, men did not teach me this doctrine. The Holy Ghost did by Revelation.

I'm certain for it reveals the Lord Jesus, and it answered all of my questions about God himself that I had when I was a Trinitarian.

Yes, I was fooled too, my NATURAL MIND saw Father, son, and Holy Ghost. so I concluded there must be three for I see it with my own eyes. Just didn't know that I walk by Faith and not by sight.

yes, I was just as fleshly as the next person and didn't know it, that's that's the deception, everybody accept it.

But I now believe that the Lord Jesus allowed me to learn the trinity just for this purpose, Just as Paul knew the Law inside out, likewise I learned the trinity inside out, so that now, at this time God can use me to combat this teaching. one need to know its enemy before engaging in battle.

As a Trinitarian, there was scriptures that didn’t add up, so I just avoided them but soon I had to give an account. One can run, but the word of God will walk you down.

So I surrendered, and asked God to teach me, because I was tired of lying. I want the truth. So he taught me.

But I had to do what the Bible calls RE-NEW MY MIND. I had to start over from scratch. But it didn’t long and I began to see, the scripture started to jump off the pages of the bible.

Grant it, this didn’t happen over night. It was like learning to walk again. But I was committed and TRUSTED the Lord. And he was, and IS a GOOD TEACHER. I started to see his diversity form Genesis to Revelation. And when he show me the answer to hard question in the Bile and the answer was so easy. I said that’s it I’m in and he have been teaching me ever since.

Now do I know it all….. NO, let me say this again, NO I don't know everything. But if anything comes up he will supply the answers. As he told his prophets NOT ONE WORD FROM YOUR MOUTH WILL FAIL. He cannot lie. So I totally trust him.

Now do I study, YES, do I research, YES, do I burn the midnight Oil, YES. But after I do all those things I come to God for his Instruction and let him reveal all to me.

So I go to his School, DAY and NIGHT and I let him teach me, morning noon and night.

And knowing about his RIGHT HAND, it is a learning tool of his, as with his teaching on many other doctrines, example his “Two Fold” RETURN, or the Greater than I question..ect... It just all come together when one understand the truth. I’m very confident in HIM and not me, only HIM.

Now I'm going to give you some Good advice. when I first came onto the Internet and in some of these christian boards, I was schocked of the lack of Brotherly love. people was not even greeting one another. so I used a Godly principle and when I used the principle God accelerate my understanding and knowledge.

I started to GREET people once at least every day, as I do now with GINOLJC. and this is the principle, Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

so I started to GREET people on the internet in Christians boards. in doing that one principle of God he saw it and blessed me in Kowledg and understanding of his Word on these boards. for I was serious in repersenting him on these boards.

so the conclusion: God taught me, I got this from no man. and to VJ concering Diversified Oneness, I asked the Lord to give me something that was diffrent and not what someone else had. as the apostle Paul said, Romans 15:20 "Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation". I didn't want to build on another man foundation. so, he gave me this what you see now.

1 Corinthians 3:10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon".
(Christ was given unto me to lay in Diversified oneness)

1 Corinthians 3:11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 "If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


sory about the lenght of the post, got a little carried away, so please excuse me there.

PCY
 
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VictoryinJesus

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First thanks for the reply.

No, men did not teach me this doctrine. The Holy Ghost did by Revelation.

I'm certain for it reveals the Lord Jesus, and it answered all of my questions about God himself that I had when I was a Trinitarian.

Yes, I was fooled too, my NATURAL MIND saw Father, son, and Holy Ghost. so I concluded there must be three for I see it with my own eyes. Just didn't know that I walk by Faith and not by sight.

yes, I was just as fleshly as the next person and didn't know it, that's that's the deception, everybody accept it.

But I now believe that the Lord Jesus allowed me to learn the trinity just for this purpose, Just as Paul knew the Law inside out, likewise I learned the trinity inside out, so that now, at this time God can use me to combat this teaching. one need to know its enemy before engaging in battle.

As a Trinitarian, there was scriptures that didn’t add up, so I just avoided them but soon I had to give an account. One can run, but the word of God will walk you down.

So I surrendered, and asked God to teach me, because I was tired of lying. I want the truth. So he taught me.

But I had to do what the Bible calls RE-NEW MY MIND. I had to start over from scratch. But it didn’t long and I began to see, the scripture started to jump off the pages of the bible.

Grant it, this didn’t happen over night. It was like learning to walk again. But I was committed and TRUSTED the Lord. And he was, and IS a GOOD TEACHER. I started to see his diversity form Genesis to Revelation. And when he show me the answer to hard question in the Bile and the answer was so easy. I said that’s it I’m in and he have been teaching me ever since.

Now do I know it all….. NO, let me say this again, NO I don't know everything. But if anything comes up he will supply the answers. As he told his prophets NOT ONE WORD FROM YOUR MOUTH WILL FAIL. He cannot lie. So I totally trust him.

Now do I study, YES, do I research, YES, do I burn the midnight Oil, YES. But after I do all those things I come to God for his Instruction and let him reveal all to me.

So I go to his School, DAY and NIGHT and I let him teach me, morning noon and night.

And knowing about his RIGHT HAND, it is a learning tool of his, as with his teaching on many other doctrines, example his “Two Fold” RETURN, or the Greater than I question..ect... It just all come together when one understand the truth. I’m very confident in HIM and not me, only HIM.

Now I'm going to give you some Good advice. when I first came onto the Internet and in some of these christian boards, I was schocked of the lack of Brotherly love. people was not even greeting one another. so I used a Godly principle and when I used the principle God accelerate my understanding and knowledge.

I started to GREET people once at least every day, as I do now with GINOLJC. and this is the principle, Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

so I started to GREET people on the internet in Christians boards. in doing that one principle of God he saw it and blessed me in Kowledg and understanding of his Word on these boards. for I was serious in repersenting him on these boards.

so the conclusion: God taught me, I got this from no man. and to VJ concering Diversified Oneness, I asked the Lord to give me something that was diffrent and not what someone else had. as the apostle Paul said, Romans 15:20 "Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation". I didn't want to build on another man foundation. so, he gave me this what you see now.

1 Corinthians 3:10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon".
(Christ was given unto me to lay in Diversified oneness)

1 Corinthians 3:11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 "If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


sory about the lenght of the post, got a little carried away, so please excuse me there.

PCY

I can relate. Everything you said, I've been there. From Genesis to Revelation. He has already showed us once how man's interpretation of His wrath and vengeance goes: They were wrong. Just look at the humiliation of His death. The glory of His resurrection. It was a surprise because it was the opposite of man's reasoning on how man would handle it...if man(kind) were in charge. Jesus spoke it over and over: only TWO commands: love God and your neighbor. Forgive or you will not be forgiven. The chosen...we are told to take the lower seat until He tells to go up higher. In no way am I insinuating I believe people mock God and get away with it. I am saying I believe He can take the worst of the worst(which all man are without God) and He can cleanse it. With fire. With wrath. With Judgement. However He chooses to do it. He can cleanse anything or anyone. They never expected the gospel to go to the gentiles either. Although He said it would over and over. What I hear in His words from Genesis to Revelation is how He is going to perform a mighty work that man never expected because there is a truth that man wants to ignore:

Acts 10:34 [34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

I've read the beginning and the end, and what is in-between. And as you said above, you just know when it lines up. You just know. For the first time in my life I experience real joy. Now I know why the disciples followed Him everywhere.

Isaiah 51:9-10
[9] Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord ; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon? [10] Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?

Micah 7:18-19
[18] Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. [19] He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Pay attention to what God can do to leviathan:
Job 41:1-5
[1] Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? [2] Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? [3] Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? [4] Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? [5] Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?

Job 41:13-15
[13] Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle? [14] Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. [15] His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
 
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101G

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I can relate. Everything you said, I've been there. From Genesis to Revelation. He has already showed us once how man's interpretation of His wrath and vengeance goes: They were wrong. Just look at the humiliation of His death. The glory of His resurrection. It was a surprise because it was the opposite of man's reasoning on how man would handle it...if man(kind) were in charge. Jesus spoke it over and over: only TWO commands: love God and your neighbor. Forgive or you will not be forgiven. The chosen...we are told to take the lower seat until He tells to go up higher. In no way am I insinuating I believe people mock God and get away with it. I am saying I believe He can take the worst of the worst(which all man are without God) and He can cleanse it. With fire. With wrath. With Judgement. However He chooses to do it. He can cleanse anything or anyone. They never expected the gospel to go to the gentiles either. Although He said it would over and over. What I hear in His words from Genesis to Revelation is how He is going to perform a mighty work that man never expected because there is a truth that man wants to ignore:

Acts 10:34 [34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

I've read the beginning and the end, and what is in-between. And as you said above, you just know when it lines up. You just know. For the first time in my life I experience real joy. Now I know why the disciples followed Him everywhere.

Isaiah 51:9-10
[9] Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord ; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon? [10] Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?

Micah 7:18-19
[18] Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. [19] He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Pay attention to what God can do to leviathan:
Job 41:1-5
[1] Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? [2] Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? [3] Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? [4] Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? [5] Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?

Job 41:13-15
[13] Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle? [14] Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. [15] His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
GINOLJC, to all. @VJ, thanks for the reply.
Acts 10:34 [34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
VJ, if you just keep that verses before your face, God will act in you greatly.

take God at his word without doubting, I mean without any doubt. GOD is no respecter of persons ".

that verse has moved me beyond any Jew or Gentile, or any other nationality. as well as this one. 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more".

as Christians, we must GROW, not only in words but in DEEDS also. if one knows then one should act on it.

now one more tip. when one exercise a scripture, combine it with another to build a picture.

an example, as in your topic here, "the winepress".

to me, the coming of the Lord has already been pictured for me, from the OT text Daniel. just as the flood was a picture of what Noah did and what happened to him and his family in Genesis, likewise, the none believers that perished. the believers are saved as pictured in the book of Daniel. that which was his wrath with water, he said next time by fire. well, we have a picture of that in the OT. the three Hebrew boys in the fiery furnish. just as in the flood, God did not rapture his people before the wrath, (the flood), but delivered them in the wrath by the raising of the ark BY the WRATH. Rapture means take up. the same instrument, The Flood, (the wrath), that saved the righteous, is the same instrument that washed away the wicked. as with the Firey furnish, God did not rapture the three Hebrews boy before they were thrown into the fire, he delivered them IN the fire. when the wicked bind, or bound the righteous and tossed them in the flames the same fire which did not hurt the righteous, consumed the wicked.

so will it be with the fire in his coming. he did not rapture the Hebrew boy before the Fire, (here, the wrath of God, the fire, as was with the flood), no, he GOD, delivered them IN the Fire, (the wrath) and brought them out/raptured, safely. as a matter of fact, not one hair on their head was singed, nor their clothes smelled of smoke. now that's complete delivery.

so as with any pre-tribulation rapture, I do not believe. nor any pre-wrath rapture, which is the latest scenario. no, I believe none of these scenarios. I only believe what the Bible says and he has shown us the true scenario. that's why men hearts will fail them and want to die when the Lord comes. the answer UNBELIEF, and it will be too late.

Be blessed

PCY
 
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VictoryinJesus

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other words, to vindicate His holy name, God will restore Israel in love and mercy. If He did not do so, the world might think He lacked the ability since the Israelite's were called His people


Vindicated? I don't know, Harvest 1874. How does "sanctified" turn into vindicated? Vindicated before who: man or Satan or the heathen? Vindicated is not in His word, or is it in another translation? Sounds like what God is saying is they profaned His Holy name among the heathen therefore:

Luke 3:7-9
[7] Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [8] Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. [9] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Hebrews 1:3
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The express image spent absolutely no time "vindicating" himself before the heathen. He did the opposite.
 
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Harvest 1874

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Vindicated? I don't know, Harvest 1874. How does "sanctified" turn into vindicated? Vindicated before who: man or Satan or the heathen? Vindicated is not in His word, or is it in another translation? Sounds like what God is saying is they profaned His Holy name among the heathen therefore:

Luke 3:7-9
[7] Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [8] Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. [9] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Hebrews 1:3
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The express image spent absolutely no time "vindicating" himself before the heathen. He did the opposite.

The word sanctified means to be "set apart" and so the Lord will be set apart in the eyes of Israel and the world in that day. Thus vindicated in their eyes from all that they have erroneously accused him of because they could not perceive His full plan and purpose, for their salvation.
 

VictoryinJesus

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101G, several points. Please be patient with me. You wont offend me in any way if you say I've completely gone off in the wrong direction.

1)
1 Chronicles 22:7-10
[7] And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God: [8] But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. [9] Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.

The word of the Lord came to David and said He would not build an house unto the Lords name because he had shed blood and made great wars. Instead the son of peace comes. Why would God set a man of peace (the Lamb) and give Him the power to judge then head right into Armageddon...the worst war in history?

2)
Psalm 137:1-9
[1] By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. [2] We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof. [3] For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying , Sing us one of the songs of Zion. [4] How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land? [5] If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning . [6] If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. [7] Remember, O Lord , the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it , rase it, even to the foundation thereof. [8] O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be , that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. [9] Happy shall he be , that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

It was God's purpose for them to be carried away captive. "Edom" the heathen said, Empty it, empty it, even to the foundation thereof. Why? Because a new foundation was going in. It is His plan. "Happy shall he be , that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Nahum 2:1-2
[1] He that dasheth in pieces is come up before thy face: keep the munition, watch the way, make thy loins strong, fortify thy power mightily. [2] For the Lord hath turned away the excellency of Jacob, as the excellency of Israel: for the emptiers have emptied them out, and marred their vine branches.

Man's work had to be cut off. "that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Acts 7:56-60
[56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. [57] Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, [58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him : and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. [59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God , and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Stephen was a little one dash against the stones. You and I have spoken before about the Lord standing (in power). How is that power displayed? Saul becomes Paul. Mercy was shown to the man that stoned Stephen, 101G. What is the image here: Stephen outside the city, stones upon a body that shows us clearly a new temple made without hands. The temple of the believer. One that confesses Him as Lord.

3) you really believe there is an actual sword coming out of his mouth?
Revelation 19:21
[21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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The word sanctified means to be "set apart" and so the Lord will be set apart in the eyes of Israel and the world in that day. Thus vindicated in their eyes from all that they have erroneously accused him of because they could not perceive His full plan and purpose, for their salvation.

Then why does God say the same thing to Gog?
Ezekiel 38:16
[16] And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
 

Harvest 1874

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Then why does God say the same thing to Gog?
Ezekiel 38:16
[16] And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Sorry my sister I will get back with you after work, I gotta go, but I did want to add that the word sanctified likewise means made holy, justified, thus God will be justified in the eyes of the world.

God will be justified before the world in his dealings (his punishment of Gog) likewise, the armies that comprise Gog will in the resurrection understand this too.
 

VictoryinJesus

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GINOLJC, to all. @VJ, thanks for the reply.

VJ, if you just keep that verses before your face, God will act in you greatly.

take God at his word without doubting, I mean without any doubt. GOD is no respecter of persons ".

that verse has moved me beyond any Jew or Gentile, or any other nationality. as well as this one. 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more".

as Christians, we must GROW, not only in words but in DEEDS also. if one knows then one should act on it.

now one more tip. when one exercise a scripture, combine it with another to build a picture.

an example, as in your topic here, "the winepress".

to me, the coming of the Lord has already been pictured for me, from the OT text Daniel. just as the flood was a picture of what Noah did and what happened to him and his family in Genesis, likewise, the none believers that perished. the believers are saved as pictured in the book of Daniel. that which was his wrath with water, he said next time by fire. well, we have a picture of that in the OT. the three Hebrew boys in the fiery furnish. just as in the flood, God did not rapture his people before the wrath, (the flood), but delivered them in the wrath by the raising of the ark BY the WRATH. Rapture means take up. the same instrument, The Flood, (the wrath), that saved the righteous, is the same instrument that washed away the wicked. as with the Firey furnish, God did not rapture the three Hebrews boy before they were thrown into the fire, he delivered them IN the fire. when the wicked bind, or bound the righteous and tossed them in the flames the same fire which did not hurt the righteous, consumed the wicked.

so will it be with the fire in his coming. he did not rapture the Hebrew boy before the Fire, (here, the wrath of God, the fire, as was with the flood), no, he GOD, delivered them IN the Fire, (the wrath) and brought them out/raptured, safely. as a matter of fact, not one hair on their head was singed, nor their clothes smelled of smoke. now that's complete delivery.

so as with any pre-tribulation rapture, I do not believe. nor any pre-wrath rapture, which is the latest scenario. no, I believe none of these scenarios. I only believe what the Bible says and he has shown us the true scenario. that's why men hearts will fail them and want to die when the Lord comes. the answer UNBELIEF, and it will be too late.

Be blessed

PCY

I get it. It does make sense but you also have to keep in mind: we must be born of water and spirit. There is the natural and the spiritual. Two baptisms. Two births. Two covenants (Testaments). Flesh and bone.

Genesis 9:11-17
[11] And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. [12] And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: [13] I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. [14] And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: [15] And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. [16] And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. [17] And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

I do set my bow in the cloud: the bow is Christ. He is the peace in the Cloud. Mark 13:26 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Leviticus 16:2
[2] And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Genesis 9:16
[16] And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.


John 3:5-6 "Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Noah(destruction of all wicked flesh from the earth) and then the four men(three set free from bondage/captivity) by the fire. You are not going to offend me in say I'm confused. I'm sure I am.
 
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quietthinker

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There is a harvest? when? If the tares are bundled and burned and the wheat gathered into His barn, what comes out of the great wine press? In the old testament, man apart from God failed to bring forth fruit unto life. How does it(the wine fat) make the Lord's apparel glorious? Is it fruit or blood?

(Isaiah 63: 1-3) ....this that is glorious in his apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadth in the winefat?

Isaiah 63 paints the word picture of God dealing with God regarding the sin problem. God revealing himself and being glorified in the process with men as beneficiaries praising his unspeakable gift. Let me explain how I see it.

This word imagery of Gods great plan of redemption from a particular perspective pulses with vibrancy. Questions are being asked and God the Son is answering vividly.
Vs 1.. who it is coming from the City of sin from the Country of sin Bozzrah, the capitol of Edom...Esau's country. Esau is the symbol of God's enemies. Jacob as the symbol of Gods people.
God's Glory is Gods justice kissing mercy in himself (robbed in splendour in the greatness of his strength) God takes on human form in Jesus to bear the punishment for sin ('It is I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save')
Vs 2..why are your garments red like like those of one treading the winepress?
Vs 3..I have trodden the winepress alone and from the nations no one was with me (The wine press of God's just punishment for sin) I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in why wrath (God's just punishment for sin exercised on Jesus) their blood spattered my garments and I stained all my clothing
Vs 4... for the day of vengeance was in my heart and the year of my redemption has come (God working salvation in himself for us as in Vs 5 and 6)
Vs 5.. I looked but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support (my God, my God, why have you forsaken me) so my own arm worked salvation for me and my own wrath sustained me. (resurrection)
Vs 6 I trampled the nations in my anger, in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their life blood on the ground. (Jesus bearing our sin in his body, taking our place)
Vs 7... The beneficiaries praising God for his kindness towards them.

I will stop here as there is much to contemplate if previously you have thought that these verses were describing some sort of literal butchery towards men that God takes pleasure in.

Indeed, the story of God's generosity, his unspeakable gift will be the science and the song of the redeemed for the ceaseless ages of eternity. We get a glimpse of it as through a glass darkly in the pages of holy writ. It is presented again and again and again in different ways using different descriptions but all telling of this great mystery hidden for ages. In fact, I believe that not even Satan knew the details of God's plan for the redemption of the fallen race. If he had known he would surely not have killed the prince of life for in so doing he confirmed his own death sentence.
 

VictoryinJesus

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if previously you have thought that these verses were describing some sort of literal butchery towards men that God takes pleasure in.

I used to, but not anymore. Read through your post once but will read it again and may have further comments. It has been a little while since I revisited Isaiah 63. Consider those that were blinded and God told them the day would come they would see; Isaiah (possibly) being God giving the “seeing” of Him in His “glorious” apparel: they see and say: who is this? Who is this stained red in the winefat? It is Him! HE that has tread the winefat!

The Lord says He has done it alone but also consider our fruit is now worked by God and not by man. Our labour, our works, our fruit now belong to Him that reaps: His apparel “glorious”. What is the Fruit of the Spirit? Is not the Lord covered in them?
 
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Stranger

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I used to, but not anymore. Read through your post once but will read it again and may have further comments. It has been a little while since I revisited Isaiah 63. Consider those that were blinded and God told them the day would come they would see; Isaiah (possibly) being God giving the “seeing” of Him in His “glorious” apparel: they see and say: who is this? Who is this stained red in the winefat? It is Him! HE that has tread the winefat!

The Lord says He has done it alone but also consider our fruit is now worked by God and not by man. Our labour, our works, our fruit now belong to Him that reaps: His apparel “glorious”. What is the Fruit of the Spirit? Is not the Lord covered in them?

Indeed it is Jesus Christ in (Is. 63:1-6). And He is covered with blood. But the blood is not His, it is His enemies. (63:3) "...their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments...."

It is a time of vengeance. (63:4) "For the day of vengeance is in mine heart...."

Stranger
 

quietthinker

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It is a time of vengeance. (63:4) "For the day of vengeance is in mine heart...."

Yes, the context reveals it is vengeance against sin. Isa. 40 onwards portrays Gods view and redeeming activity in different ways.
For the the Jews not to see this is one thing but for Christians to miss this is indicative of misappropriation and an ignorance of of how the scriptural puzzle comes together.
 
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Stranger

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Yes, the context reveals it is vengeance against sin. Isa. 40 onwards portrays Gods view and redeeming activity in different ways.
For the the Jews not to see this is one thing but for Christians to miss this is indicative of misappropriation and an ignorance of of how the scriptural puzzle comes together.

"By different ways" you apparently mean whatever way you want it to be.

The context reveals it is against people. (63:6) Not sin. The people are sinners but it is not sin Christ is coming against. It is the people who have rejected Him and His authority and His restablishing Israel as the mediatorial nation in the world.

Stranger