The word, "Doctrine"

[aspen]

At some point we do need to transcend the doctrine that we have learned. We need to leave the nest and take flight, using everything we have learned to fulfill our sanctifying relationship with Christ; loving perfectly and becoming citizens of Heaven.

Flight looks different than sitting in the nest, just like God’s Love in real time can seem other than loving. It doesn’t mean we have rejected the doctrine we’ve learn......instead, we have made it our own and we are putting it into practice.

Amedeus is a loving servant of Christ who is being sanctified as we speak. Asking him to go back to the nest and explain what he has been living for decades is akin to asking him to describe how to tie a shoe - he could do it, but it would be tedious and boring.

Finally, flight is always risky, as is love. Yet, we were created to take this risk and to live it boldly.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”

God, sweeping humanity off our feet since Adam was a dust bunny

 

[amadeus]

Ummmm......I asked two very simple questions. I sure would like an answer to them:

If I could that might make you happier for the moment, but I cannot...

Do you, Amadeus, believe that the Apostolic Fathers did not put up with sound doctrine, had itching ears and followed teachings that suited their own desires?

Do you, Amadeus, believe the Holy Spirit guided you to the truth in your belief/practices/doctrines OR the Apostolic Fathers?

Patient Mary

Patient Mary who wants to define the possible answers as if they were the only possibilities. Should I change my beliefs in order to be able to answer in line with your definitions? I cannot do that anymore than you can. We already believe what we do both you and I.

I did answer your questions as well as I could based on my incomplete knowledge. You want a simple black and white answer and I don't believe it works that way. My belief is my belief. Again, I will not change my belief to accommodate your questions and you should not expect me to...

I believe that everyone's knowledge of God and the things of God is incomplete including mine and including yours. Apparently you disagree and that is your privilege.

If you really believe that your knowledge is complete because of your connection with the Catholic Church then that is as I see it based on your faith in the Catholic Church. Sorry but with my incomplete knowledge I cannot give you a more precise answer.

Your problem as I see it is you want to resolve our differences by logic alone. I do not believe that that is a possibility. God would have to change His plan and He won't do that.

 

[amadeus]

No games here kiddo. I have read chapter 12 and it has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about sooooooo your point befuddles me.

I don't get your "comparable levels" theory. Your theory has NOTHING to do with the writings of the Apostolic Fathers being more trustworthy than yours.

Do you believe what you write holds more weight then what the Fathers wrote?

Simple question.....I sure would like a simple answer.

We have gone this part before, so to me it is an unwinnable game.
Sorry you have the only answers from me now already! Only God gives any real increase, so why would you expect more from me? Either I am right or I am wrong, but no one who disagrees with me will know which until and if God gives them the answer. If you believe you already have that answer, why do you bother to keep on asking me?

 

[Willie T]

Mary Mogle,
You are more entertaining than watching the Three Stooges on TV.

 

[Marymog]

If I could that might make you happier for the moment, but I cannot...

Patient Mary who wants to define the possible answers as if they were the only possibilities. Should I change my beliefs in order to be able to answer in line with your definitions? I cannot do that anymore than you can. We already believe what we do both you and I.

I did answer your questions as well as I could based on my incomplete knowledge. You want a simple black and white answer and I don't believe it works that way. My belief is my belief. Again, I will not change my belief to accommodate your questions and you should not expect me to...

I believe that everyone's knowledge of God and the things of God is incomplete including mine and including yours. Apparently you disagree and that is your privilege.

If you really believe that your knowledge is complete because of your connection with the Catholic Church then that is as I see it based on your faith in the Catholic Church. Sorry but with my incomplete knowledge I cannot give you a more precise answer.

Your problem as I see it is you want to resolve our differences by logic alone. I do not believe that that is a possibility. God would have to change His plan and He won't do that.

A whole bunch of words but no answer....

Maybe you could complete your knowledge if you read what the men who walked and talked with the Apostles had to say. But that is not your desire, is it? Your desire, which is not God's desire, is to read Scripture and come up with an answer that suits YOU.

 

[Marymog]

Mary Mogle,
You are more entertaining than watching the Three Stooges on TV.

Hi Willie,

I don't see where making condescending remarks furthers the discussion but I bet it made you feel good.....didn't it?

Would you care to give it a shot?

Who's written words do YOU put more weight in when trying to discern or interpret Scripture? @Amadeaus or the Apostolic Fathers? Maybe your own words hold weight over all of them?

I suspect you will do as you have done in the past when I ask you tough questions.....Ignore me....But I have hope.

Moe Howard

 

[Marymog]

We have gone this part before, so to me it is an unwinnable game.
Sorry you have the only answers from me now already! Only God gives any real increase, so why would you expect more from me? Either I am right or I am wrong, but no one who disagrees with me will know which until and if God gives them the answer. If you believe you already have that answer, why do you bother to keep on asking me?

Once again.... A LOT of words...but no answer.

Sad Mary

 

[Marymog]

At some point we do need to transcend the doctrine that we have learned.”

How does one transcend the doctrine they have learned?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

We have gone this part before, so to me it is an unwinnable game.
Sorry you have the only answers from me now already! Only God gives any real increase, so why would you expect more from me? Either I am right or I am wrong, but no one who disagrees with me will know which until and if God gives them the answer. If you believe you already have that answer, why do you bother to keep on asking me?

Ummmm......properly interpreting Scripture, which effects your salvation, is not a "game" kiddo.

You're making it a game by being coy, but it's not a game.

Mary

 

[Willie T]

How does one transcend the doctrine they have learned?

Curious Mary

Golly, you really may not know how to do that.

 

[aspen]

How does one transcend the doctrine they have learned?

Curious Mary

As I stated in my post, we start using what we have learned to love one another.


Psst... Curious Mary, you might want to honor your curiosity and continue reading my post beyond the first sentence.....

Helpful Aspen

 

[amadeus]

A whole bunch of words but no answer....

Maybe you could complete your knowledge if you read what the men who walked and talked with the Apostles had to say. But that is not your desire, is it? Your desire, which is not God's desire, is to read Scripture and come up with an answer that suits YOU.

The only answer I want is the one that God provides and that suits Him. Don't read more into my words than are in them. You are guilty of that with me and with others... or so it seems to me.

You attacking my testimony hurts me, but on a forum like this I expect it. I wish it were not so, but people are what they are. So many are so sure that they are God's hammer...and I cannot change that.

As to reading all of those things you suggest for completion, I must say that I have read more than you know and still have many of the books for reference. Don't think that I have not paid attention simply because I have not come out where you are. Remember I grew up Catholic so I learned good things from Catholics. Any disagreement with the Catholic Church was never in me while I was an active Catholic. But, that is not where I am now. You have no real interest in where I am.

 

[amadeus]

Ummmm......properly interpreting Scripture, which effects your salvation, is not a "game" kiddo.

You're making it a game by being coy, but it's not a game.

Mary

To you it is a game because you have no interest in learning, but only in somehow winning or putting down someone who does not agree with your own position. Proper interpretation requires the right interpreter. You say that the interpretation affect my salvation. But are you the right interpreter to whom I should look? Sometimes it is best to remain silent. Salvation in the end does NOT depend on our knowledge, does it?

Solomon wrote the following words a thousand years before Jesus was born to Mary:

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all." Ecc 9:11

And then Jesus clarified with these words:

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matt 10:22

I don't believe He was speaking of enduring to the end of an exchange on an Internet forum. But then I guess you'll have look up the Catholic interpretation to be sure of your position.

 

[Nancy]

Mary Mogle,
You are more entertaining than watching the Three Stooges on TV.

Well, she sure has spunk!

 

[amadeus]

Once again.... A LOT of words...but no answer.

Sad Mary

Sad Mary, the only One I am answerable to is the One who already knows all He needs to know. If you really need to know something more that I have left out ask of Him and I am certain He will answer you.

 

[Marymog]

Golly, you really may not know how to do that.

Hi troll,

Golly, you must not know either.

 

[Marymog]

As I stated in my post, we start using what we have learned to love one another.


Psst... Curious Mary, you might want to honor your curiosity and continue reading my post beyond the first sentence.....

Helpful Aspen

Hi not helpful Aspen,

I read your post. It didn't answer my question and neither does this one.

It was a sincere question. I was hoping for a sincere answer.

 

[Marymog]

The only answer I want is the one that God provides and that suits Him. Don't read more into my words than are in them. You are guilty of that with me and with others... or so it seems to me.

You attacking my testimony hurts me, but on a forum like this I expect it. I wish it were not so, but people are what they are. So many are so sure that they are God's hammer...and I cannot change that.

As to reading all of those things you suggest for completion, I must say that I have read more than you know and still have many of the books for reference. Don't think that I have not paid attention simply because I have not come out where you are. Remember I grew up Catholic so I learned good things from Catholics. Any disagreement with the Catholic Church was never in me while I was an active Catholic. But, that is not where I am now. You have no real interest in where I am.[/QUOTE]
Hi Amadeus,

I do have an interest. That is why I ask so many, what I believe are, legitimate questions. If I didn't have an interest I wouldn't be asking.

Your answers to me are discombobulated and contradicting. That is why I keep asking them sometimes using different variations of the same question.

A good teacher knows how to adapt to their students learning abilities and change their teaching methods so their students can better understand what knowledge they are trying to impart on their students. I am trying to learn from you so I may grow in my walk with Him.

You suggested it is a game. That is not how I look at it. I think we could learn something from each other. You seem to only want to teach. If that is what you want to do then adapt to your students learning ability because you have this student confused.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Marymog]

To you it is a game because you have no interest in learning, .....

Slow down cowboy.....YOU are the one who said "to me it is an unwinnable game."

Sooooo don't suggest that little ol' Marymog thinks it's a game.

I look forward to your retraction.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Sad Mary, the only One I am answerable to is the One who already knows all He needs to know. If you really need to know something more that I have left out ask of Him and I am certain He will answer you.

According to Scripture you are also answerable to the Church and if you have the wrong answer the Church has the authority to treat you as a pagan or tax collector: Matthew 18:17

I have asked Him. He told me your doctrine in some areas is opposite of what Christ taught.