The World will discover, that the mark was already taken - Jesus revealed the mark on the cross, but did not boast (reminisce with me)

[Gottservant]

Hello there!

So, there is a simple fact, at the heart of the tribulation: the mark the anti-Christ tries to take, is the mark that was already crucified, by the Lord Jesus. The anti-Christ is the man of sin, but the mark of sin, was already taken by the Lord. This causes the anti-Christ to decry his strength and come to eternal pity, because of which the world will mock his place. Mocked he will fill with contempt, again following after the Lord who showed the utmost contempt (for Himself on the Cross). Lastly, he will surrender to the flesh (as he was going to any way, being a slave of sin) and try to come against the Judgment of God - again following the steps of Christ who already come against the Judgment of God on the Cross. This is a three-fold cord.

The Holy Spirit, will then reveal Himself to the anti-Christ and prophecy will establish the Cross on Earth, in the anti-Christ's place. But the Cross will not be interpreted another way. No! The nations will realise they have heard the Gospel already and have not understood that it overcomes the World, the Flesh and the Devil. This is the power of God: the Gospel will be even more advanced, than it had been (because the faith will have the faith that was revealed in Heaven, available to them on Earth). The gospel does not change, between Heaven and Earth; this was already revealed in Heaven, but now it will be revealed on Earth. The trial of deciding which interpretation of the Gospel you go with, will become a global pre-occupation!

Does God change the Gospel, when Men find their way to Heaven, by it? No! Does God lessen the message of the Gospel when it is found on Earth? No! This is the strength of God, the Gospel is true, wherever it is revealed! The Devil will have no alternative, but to bring the nations together in condemnation, so that he might sow seeds of discord amongst their leadership. But leader will help leader and mate will help mate and the nations will come in to a little resistance to the Devil, as a result. It will not be enough to bring an end to the fear of Armageddon, but it will put it off for centuries beyond a Golden Age Day (as the Lord reckons a Day). The Devil is a slave to his own resources, he will have to keep trying, but even then God will foreshorten the days, so that the flesh not weary over where the Devil is coming from next.

The whole point, is that the mark that Christ took, was not a special mark, it is the mark we all have, when we sin, for which holiness is a hope, beyond the need to keep the mark, once we repent. The thing is there is a big difference between taking the mark and then realizing your mistake and having it removed with repentance; and taking the mark, then defying God and finding the mark causes you to sin (again - let the reader note). This is an example of what the Lord said when he said "there are first who will be last, and last who will be first" - ready to take the mark of sin might make you first spiritually, but you will be last in the flesh; ready to be last to take the mark, might make you last spiritually, but you will be constantly first (to sin, in principle) in the flesh. This takes repentance to understand, I am not saying this doctrine should be explained to people who don't understand that they sin.

Paying mind to what is not new, is quickly overturned; but conviction without experience, is hard to preach (selah)

The anti-Christ may not be new, but the Lord must still reveal it, for the difference to be known.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, the Gospel has to be shown on earth as it is in heaven. But it is not "taken" by the world and understood, but rejected. The Mark is not the Gospel, but rather, a visible contract with the Antichrist to follow his policies. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ewq1938]

Hello there!

So, there is a simple fact, at the heart of the tribulation: the mark the anti-Christ tries to take, is the mark that was already crucified, by the Lord Jesus. The anti-Christ is the man of sin, but the mark of sin, was already taken by the Lord. This causes the anti-Christ to decry his strength and come to eternal pity, because of which the world will mock his place.

None of this is from the bible.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hello there!

So, there is a simple fact, at the heart of the tribulation: the mark the anti-Christ tries to take, is the mark that was already crucified, by the Lord Jesus. The anti-Christ is the man of sin, but the mark of sin, was already taken by the Lord. This causes the anti-Christ to decry his strength and come to eternal pity, because of which the world will mock his place. Mocked he will fill with contempt, again following after the Lord who showed the utmost contempt (for Himself on the Cross). Lastly, he will surrender to the flesh (as he was going to any way, being a slave of sin) and try to come against the Judgment of God - again following the steps of Christ who already come against the Judgment of God on the Cross. This is a three-fold cord.

The Holy Spirit, will then reveal Himself to the anti-Christ and prophecy will establish the Cross on Earth, in the anti-Christ's place. But the Cross will not be interpreted another way. No! The nations will realise they have heard the Gospel already and have not understood that it overcomes the World, the Flesh and the Devil. This is the power of God: the Gospel will be even more advanced, than it had been (because the faith will have the faith that was revealed in Heaven, available to them on Earth). The gospel does not change, between Heaven and Earth; this was already revealed in Heaven, but now it will be revealed on Earth. The trial of deciding which interpretation of the Gospel you go with, will become a global pre-occupation!

Does God change the Gospel, when Men find their way to Heaven, by it? No! Does God lessen the message of the Gospel when it is found on Earth? No! This is the strength of God, the Gospel is true, wherever it is revealed! The Devil will have no alternative, but to bring the nations together in condemnation, so that he might sow seeds of discord amongst their leadership. But leader will help leader and mate will help mate and the nations will come in to a little resistance to the Devil, as a result. It will not be enough to bring an end to the fear of Armageddon, but it will put it off for centuries beyond a Golden Age Day (as the Lord reckons a Day). The Devil is a slave to his own resources, he will have to keep trying, but even then God will foreshorten the days, so that the flesh not weary over where the Devil is coming from next.

The whole point, is that the mark that Christ took, was not a special mark, it is the mark we all have, when we sin, for which holiness is a hope, beyond the need to keep the mark, once we repent. The thing is there is a big difference between taking the mark and then realizing your mistake and having it removed with repentance; and taking the mark, then defying God and finding the mark causes you to sin (again - let the reader note). This is an example of what the Lord said when he said "there are first who will be last, and last who will be first" - ready to take the mark of sin might make you first spiritually, but you will be last in the flesh; ready to be last to take the mark, might make you last spiritually, but you will be constantly first (to sin, in principle) in the flesh. This takes repentance to understand, I am not saying this doctrine should be explained to people who don't understand that they sin.



The anti-Christ may not be new, but the Lord must still reveal it, for the difference to be known.

Way out in left field

 

[jcentricity]

APOSTATE in the Greek equals 666 the number of the beast. 1/3 of the angels became APOSTATE. Adam and Eve became APOSTATE. King Solomon had 666 shekels a sign he would become APOSTATE. When you reject Christ you receive the mark of the beast 666 aka the name APOSTATE

 

[Earburner]

APOSTATES in the Greek equals 666 the number of the beast. 1/3 of the angels became APOSTATES. Adam and Eve became APOSTATES. King Solomon had 666 shekels a sign he would become APOSTATE. When you reject Christ you receive the mark of the beast 666 aka the name APOSTATES

"APOSTATES in the Greek equals 666 the number of the beast."
Could you provide a reference as to how you came up with that interpretation and association?

I understand the financial relationship between Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.
All that is significant for us to learn there, is that the number "six hundred, three score and six talents of gold"**, is in reference to the connection it will have with the world economy, and the ability to buy and sell, for those who have taken it, for their use in the economic system.

** I purposely use the written words of those numbers, as opposed to the literal numbers, due to the foolishness that the literal numbers invoke.

 

[strepho]

Two Mark's my friend. Seal of God and mark of beast. Many people will have to wait until millennium is over to have access to Jesus. Ezekiel 9:2. And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lies toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand. This is the mark of beast. This generation is marked for spirtual destruction by satan as antichrist. Read second thessalonians chapter 2, God sent strong delusions on those who love not the truth. They will worship antichrist near future, and be in sheol for the millennium. The millennium is time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. Ezekiel 9:4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the the midst of the city, through midst of Jerusalem and set mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. Those who with seal of God won't worship antichrist. These are God's Elect. They are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world, documentation, first Peter chapter 1, romans chapter 11. Psalm chapter 49:19. He shall go to the generations of his fathers ; They shall never see the light. Many people will have to wait until millennium is over to have access to Jesus. I documented this.

 

[Gottservant]

Two Mark's my friend. Seal of God and mark of beast. [...]

Those who with seal of God won't worship antichrist. These are God's Elect. They are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world, documentation, first Peter chapter 1, romans chapter 11. Psalm chapter 49:19. He shall go to the generations of his fathers ; They shall never see the light. Many people will have to wait until millennium is over to have access to Jesus. I documented this.

Yes predestined, but you have to like your predestination (or it dies).

 

[jcentricity]

"APOSTATES in the Greek equals 666 the number of the beast."
Could you provide a reference as to how you came up with that interpretation and association?

I understand the financial relationship between Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.
All that is significant for us to learn there, is that the number "six hundred, three score and six talents of gold"**, is in reference to the connection it will have with the world economy, and the ability to buy and sell, for those who have taken it, for their use in the economic system.

** I purposely use the written words of those numbers, as opposed to the literal numbers, due to the foolishness that the literal numbers invoke.

Book of Revelation is about rise of the Antichristendom beast under the Roman Empire specifically Apostate churches that reside in the Roman Empire. Constantinople represented Babylon under Constantine specifically Babylon represented the rise of the Roman Catholic Church under Constantine. APOSTATE in the Greek equals 666. King Solomon had 666 shekels a sign he would become APOSTATE and he did. Right now where do the majority of APOSTATE churches reside specifically Roman Catholic Church, Mormon Church, Jehovah Witness, portion of United Methodist Church, Church of England (just announced they will bless same sex marriages)? They reside in Europe and United States which can be viewed as the Revived Roman Empire. The bible is also trying to convey the Babylon and Roman Empire are indeed ONE. Specifically the Wickedness and Lawlessness of Babylon is ONE with the Revived Roman Empire aka Nation States. Real war is Nation States (NATO countries aka Revived Roman Empire) vs Civilization States (Russia, China, Eurasia, Middle East. ) Notice how Nation States and Apostate churches are advancing Transgenderism, LGBTQ movement these are the embodiment of Babylon wickedness aka Woman in the basket. Now mark of beast at broader sense who someone who has embraced paganism. Apostate churches are no different then pagans they are on and the same.

 

[Gottservant]

None of this is from the bible.

2 Corinthians 5:21 "He who knew no mark, received the mark for us, that we might become the definition of the Holy Spirit (without that mark)"

 

[jcentricity]

2 Corinthians 5:21 "He who knew no mark, received the mark for us, that we might become the definition of the Holy Spirit (without that mark)"

I disagree with EVERYTHING you said. First - Babylon is Babylon. It's not Rome, the EU, or the US, or anything else. Babylon either means literal Babylon, confusion, or false religion.

There's really is no such thing as the apostate Church. Apostasy has to do with the man of sin and his followers. Apostasy is NOT a defection from Truth. It's a rebellion and abandonment.

Quote ONE verse of prophecy where Rome or the EU is specifically mentioned.

So you want to deny Jesus was crucified under the Roman Empire aka 4th beast in Book of Revelation. You want to deny Roman Empire split East vs West where Western part ruled up through Europe where it named the city of Londonium aka London. God in Old Testament said Israels sister was Sodom. Did God literally mean this? No he's saying Israels spiritual sister is Sodom. Book of Revelation is all about empires that ruled the middle east and shows as a form of judgement on the Roman Catholic Church that arose under Constantine, God allowed the ten kings specifically the Ottoman Empire to conquer Roman Empire and now the Muslims rule the middle east so the Muslims countries are the new beast in the middle east. "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away (Rise of Apostate Churches) comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,"
II Thessalonians 2:3 NKJV. Verse foretold of Apostate Churches aka Babylon in Book of Revelation because the King of Babylon aka Spirit of Antichrist aka Lucifer is ruling over the Apostate churches. In addition the Image of the beast aka Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel and Matthew 24 is the Eucharist Mass Wafer. Papacy claims through Transubstantiation bread literally becomes Jesus. They turned bread into the worst idol of the ages. The wafer is their god. Book of Daniel fortells how a portion of the pristine church would apostatisize and setup idolatry in the church specifically the Roman Catholic Church aka 11th horn in Book of Daniel that speaks blasphemies

 

[jcentricity]

You are already misquoting me in your first line. See you later asshole!

Why use swear words on a Christian board? Why don't you take your swearing some where else

 

[jcentricity]

I will. I'm sick and fucking tired of Christian assholes. See you all fucking later!

It's quite obvious you don't understand what is going on in the world. World is on verge of WWW3 you should repent of your sins because tomorrow is not promised to anyone as proven by the coronavirus pandemic. If I were to offer you $5 million cash I guarantee you would take it. God's is offering escape from the soon coming judgement through forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ so you can avoid spending eternity in hell and your rejecting Christ. So ask yourself is whats blocking you from embracing the truth in the bible worth spending eternity in hell? I am trying to get you into heaven. Message of the bible is summed in this verse
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."
John 3:16‭-‬17 NKJV

 

[ewq1938]

2 Corinthians 5:21 "He who knew no mark, received the mark for us, that we might become the definition of the Holy Spirit (without that mark)"

That isn't what the bible says either.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[ewq1938]

Apostasy is NOT a defection from Truth. It's a rebellion and abandonment.

It's all of those things but a rebellion and abondonment from religious truth. In context it will be Christians leaving faith in Christ for the antichrist.

 

[ewq1938]

That's not what the passage implies. It is NOT saying that Christians will leave the faith and accept the AC. It's saying that there's going to be a rebellion/abandonment and applies it to the followers of the man of sin.

No. In context it is as I said.


2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Stand Firm
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.


Clearly it will be Christians who will not stand fast but be deceived by the man of sin who will claim to be God and sit in the temple of God. The temple of God in the NT is Christians! Christians will commit the Apostasy by worshiping this false god, leaving Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

You quoted 17 verses of scripture and all you did was highlight.

Clearly that is not true.

Let me explain why this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christians or the Church.

The ONLY place we can go to understand 'apostasy' is 2Thes. 2 and Acts 21 because that's the only place the word apostasia is used in the NT.

We have been conditioned to believe apostasy is a defection from truth for so long that Christians don't even question it and have difficulty changing their minds about it.

The word means a defection from the truth, religious truth. That isn't debatable or deniable.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word "falling away" is apostasia from where we get the words Apostate and Apostasy. Obviously it means a moral and spiritual religious "departure" not a physical departure.


Don't believe anyone that says this event is the rapture. Here are 7 expert sources that prove the "departure" in 2 Thess 2:3 is the Apostasy:

Strong's definition:

G646 apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2


Thayer's Definition:

G646 apostasia

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2



Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament:

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.


Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .


Liddell, Scott, Jones Ancient Greek Lexicon (LSJ):


apostasia
I a departure from one's religion, apostasy , Salv. Gub. Dei, 6, p. 128; Aug. c. Jul. 56.

apostasia apostasiae N F :: apostasy, departure from one's religion, repudiation of one's faith



Winer's Grammar:

Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36 29 ) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).


greeklexicon.org (Greek-English lexicon):


G646 apostasia

Part(s) of speech: Noun, Feminine

Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.

 

[Gottservant]

That isn't what the bible says either.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

You are saluting the Bible, but not translating it.

That's making a god in your own image.

 

[Earburner]

Clearly that is not true.





The word means a defection from the truth, religious truth. That isn't debatable or deniable.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word "falling away" is apostasia from where we get the words Apostate and Apostasy. Obviously it means a moral and spiritual religious "departure" not a physical departure.


Don't believe anyone that says this event is the rapture. Here are 7 expert sources that prove the "departure" in 2 Thess 2:3 is the Apostasy:

Strong's definition:

G646 apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2


Thayer's Definition:

G646 apostasia

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2



Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament:

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.


Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .


Liddell, Scott, Jones Ancient Greek Lexicon (LSJ):


apostasia
I a departure from one's religion, apostasy , Salv. Gub. Dei, 6, p. 128; Aug. c. Jul. 56.

apostasia apostasiae N F :: apostasy, departure from one's religion, repudiation of one's faith



Winer's Grammar:

Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36 29 ) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).


greeklexicon.org (Greek-English lexicon):


G646 apostasia

Part(s) of speech: Noun, Feminine

Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.

I don't care for what and how you are translating it from the scholarly "wisdom of men", because it is ONLY "by/through the mind of Christ within us", that gives us HIS understanding. You are still lacking understanding about all of 1 Cor. 2.

People fall away from the "religious" churches (church-ianity) all the time. That DOES NOT make them apostate. However, when one falls away from personal FAITH in Christ, THAT IS apostasy in God's eyes!!

As a result, we are to be obedient to God through the doctrine of Christ, and not that which is the "traditions of men", such as any particular, or specific religious church.
2John.1
[9] Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[ewq1938]

I don't care for what and how you are translating it from the scholarly "wisdom of men"

What words mean isn't "wisdom of men". Changing what words mean is the false "wisdom of men". apostasia is not the rapture. It is falling away from Christ to the anti-christ.