There is no eternal punishment!
- Thread starter TruthSeeker2012
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Yes you did, like everyone else, but like everyone else he only knows one response ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. You answer them and the response ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. Got a screw loose I reckon.
So marksman and Rach, once they were asked to address, explain and contextualize these following verses, began a personal hate and attack campaign towards me instead.
Is there anyone else reading this thread that would like to discuss these verses with me, in love and maturity and stay on topic and not make personal attacks upon me?
The lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25), Hebrews 2:14.
Thank you and God bless.
Is there anyone else reading this thread that would like to discuss these verses with me, in love and maturity and stay on topic and not make personal attacks upon me?
The lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25), Hebrews 2:14.
Thank you and God bless.
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prpared for the Devil and his Angels,these shall go away into everlasting punishment"
"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made,and he said unto Eve,Yea hath God saId ye shall not eat of every Tree of the garden"
"And the serpent said unto the Woman,Ye shall not surely die"
"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made,and he said unto Eve,Yea hath God saId ye shall not eat of every Tree of the garden"
"And the serpent said unto the Woman,Ye shall not surely die"
That's the exact same message many Preachers and Christians are teaching....you shall not surely die, but be given immortality and live forever, even if you reject Christ, you shall NEVER DIE, you SHALL LIVE FOREVER in a FIRE!
My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the 5 or 6 strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying "destroy" or "destruction" are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.
Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction(Apoleian)
No word in Greek tongue is more significant of the utter loss of existence than "Apoleia"
Thy money perish(Apoleia) with thee (Act 8:20)
Rev 11:18 = God will destroy(diaphtheiro) them which destroy the Earth. Also in 2 Peter 2:12 the same word is used.
Act 3:23 = Another Greek verb Destroy(exolothreuo) Also 2Thes 1:9, 1Th 5:3, 1Tim 6: 9
Strange contention of some that to "perish" is in fact "to live on forever". But John 3:36 says the lost shall NOT SEE LIFE!
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die." Genesis 3:4 Satan told Eve that sin would not bring death. "Ye shall not surely die," he said.
God bless.
goodshepard55
New Member
Darn Rach...I was enjoying the banter...However I also stop responding for the same reasons...But did get a laugh when I was fishing....
Do you all believe in punishment before Judgement? well, then you have charged God with the gross injustice of punishing before judgement
2Pe 2 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
There is not one single person in a fire today. The Bible says that God reserves, or holds back, the wicked until the day of judgment to be punished.
The punishment of the lost involves not only death(2nd death), but loss of eternal life and denial of Immortality.
So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42. "The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.
The lost will be cast into the lake of fire at the great judgment day at the end of the world - not when they die. God would not punish a person in fire until his case was tried and decided in court at the end of the world. Nor would God burn a murderer who died 5,000 years ago, 5,000 years longer than one who dies and deserves punishment for the same sin today.
"The hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28,29. "The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction." "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb." Job 21:30,32.
If God tortured the lost in a fiery horror chamber throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been in the worst of war atrocities. An eternal hell of torment would be hell for God also! I could never love a god that would torture anyone who was lost forever. How sadistic! Something Satan would do, never God.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:10. "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. ... And never shall thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:18,19. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14
God bless.
2Pe 2 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
There is not one single person in a fire today. The Bible says that God reserves, or holds back, the wicked until the day of judgment to be punished.
The punishment of the lost involves not only death(2nd death), but loss of eternal life and denial of Immortality.
So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42. "The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.
The lost will be cast into the lake of fire at the great judgment day at the end of the world - not when they die. God would not punish a person in fire until his case was tried and decided in court at the end of the world. Nor would God burn a murderer who died 5,000 years ago, 5,000 years longer than one who dies and deserves punishment for the same sin today.
"The hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28,29. "The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction." "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb." Job 21:30,32.
If God tortured the lost in a fiery horror chamber throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been in the worst of war atrocities. An eternal hell of torment would be hell for God also! I could never love a god that would torture anyone who was lost forever. How sadistic! Something Satan would do, never God.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:10. "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. ... And never shall thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:18,19. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14
God bless.
1 Timothy 4:10
This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
The idea is biblical
This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
The idea is biblical
Jon-Marc
New Member
As well as Satan, the beast, and ALL those whose names are not written in the Book of life.
I wish you were right my friend. I dont want my family to burn. I want them home with the Lord and me.
Truth...I do not know if it is Biblical or not..I was riased that it was Eternal torment...I never really thought about it until my Mom left Christianity...then I began thinking about it...my Mom is so loving....I think she also left the fiath becuase of the Hell doctrine..and then I did to and I was Wiccan for about a year....but I felt a bit empty..so I asked God...the one I grew up with to help be belive and understand and to forgive me and accepted jesus as my Lord agian....but still and it has been years...I do not understand the hell doctrine....nor the verses about hell. And if the Hell doctrine AND the verses about God is Love sect are really in the Bible it makes no since to me at all....so ethier there is some mess up in the translations or some of the Bible is not really supposed to be in there and I ask God how do I know?? Well I belive noone can know for certian until we are on the other side. But Jesus siad as the poeple were killing HIm Fater Forgive them for They KNOW NOT what they do" I rest in that..Our God does not want to hurt us for our ignorance....so purhaps we all will have a chance to know the truth so we can really choose in this life or after we die. Jesus paid the price for sin and that was death....death is not eternal torment.....Jesus rose agina and he was in Heaven right after his body died.
It would only make a difference to those who were concerned about it. The idea that God would torture is not scriptural.
One needs to make sense of what scripture says about destruction and the separation such as with Lazarus and the rich man. The suffering and torture seems to be caused by the separation.
The modern thinking is that od must be who people want Him to be. This is because of pride. They want the idea of God but not who He is.
One needs to make sense of what scripture says about destruction and the separation such as with Lazarus and the rich man. The suffering and torture seems to be caused by the separation.
The modern thinking is that od must be who people want Him to be. This is because of pride. They want the idea of God but not who He is.
If God allows a being to be tortoured with no chance of redemtion...becuase of something they didnt know or understand. How can any human understand that he would still be uncondistionaly loving? God has made us they way we are with minds to think with. I wouldnt allow a spider who killed someone I love to suffer forever...EVEN if the spider knew what it was doing. If the seperated and still ask for forgivness...why wouldnt they be allowed to do so....instead of suffering forever. I dont think truth seeker is pridful and I'm not....I'm trying to understand.
1. It's not taught in Scripture in original languages.
What bible do you read?
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:10
You yourself invalidate everything you have written after your reason number 1, because your reason # 1 is false based on God's word.
Just because you don't understand how something is accomplished, like how hell will be cast into the lake of fire, you take it upon yourself to just explain it away.
Wow, won't you be in for a real surprise when it is time for you to stand before the great white throne on judgement day.
Answer me this, How will the Devil be cast into the lake of fire?
Thanks, JLB
You may believe or not believe in Hell, where "their torment rises up forever and ever!"...but Jesus did, as did all the prophets and holy people since man was created. It is at the core of Redemption itself; it is why and what we are saved from, and the reason He shed His blood save us to be with Him. He is Eternal, as is Hell, and Jesus claimed to have the keys to Death and Hell . Did He lie, and were His parables and warnings about it just a dramatic story to scare men?
I do not think so.
The Lord gave me 5 open visions of Hell, and showed me different parts of the suffering and torment there. I will share one with you...I saw huge spheres there...giant balls of naked people, suspended in space. I call them the moons of Hell. Imagine a basketball a quarter of a mile in diameter...that was like so many worms...but actual naked people. Hell exists in a twilight eventide...the air is like urine and sulphur mixed...and stale. There are flames below, with naked souls embedded in them, like cement volcanoes...in great torment.
There is the River of souls, some call Styx, that is more like a giant tube, that thrusts naked souls quickly through real flames and cold icy realms...in torment. The air is filled with coughs [that surprised me...coughing in Hell], groans, sighs, and screams everywhere...like a noisy backdrop...and wicked spirits fly there...like they are trapped...like bats...filling the air with chaos...and I saw angels there...who are very similar to very big people...except they are created with a perfection that is incomprehensible...that reminded me of REUBENS...AN ARTIST WHO PAINTED THEM...with slight variations in their bodies..and perhaps 20 feet or more in height...longer here, shorter there...CHAINED IN SOLID ROCK MAUSOLEUMS, dug out of 40 feet of solid granite in perfect rectangle jail cells. Their hands and feet were in chained cuffs, and all they did was WRITHE! twisting and screaming to be free.
...Back to the MOONS...everyone in these large balls of souls was magnetized to the center it seemed,,,huge...and eventually...maybe every hundred years or so, they would then be worked back to the edge,,,and then all they got in their agony was the downward view of hideous life below, as I described...I went up close to look at these forlorn...and they moaned and grunted a lot...and their bodies...their private parts forever pressed upon in their squirming...and they moaned in torment...suspended perhaps one hundred feet above the awful landscape below....
THESE, I BELIEVE, WERE THOSE WHO REVELLED IN THE SINS OF THE FLESH...FORNICATION AND SODOMY...AND THIS WAS THEIR ETERNAL REWARD...UNTIL HELL WILL BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!...not too happy of a life...GOD CREATED HELL...AND JESUS SAID TO NOT FEAR HE WHO KILLS THE BODY...BUT TO FEAR HIM WHO, AFTER KILLING THE BODY,..."CASTS HIS SOUL INTO HELL!" It was created by Him for the Angels who rebelled...but mankind also bought into the action. Very sobering and awful...Fear God...Honor Jesus.
Brother Toim Watkins
I do not think so.
The Lord gave me 5 open visions of Hell, and showed me different parts of the suffering and torment there. I will share one with you...I saw huge spheres there...giant balls of naked people, suspended in space. I call them the moons of Hell. Imagine a basketball a quarter of a mile in diameter...that was like so many worms...but actual naked people. Hell exists in a twilight eventide...the air is like urine and sulphur mixed...and stale. There are flames below, with naked souls embedded in them, like cement volcanoes...in great torment.
There is the River of souls, some call Styx, that is more like a giant tube, that thrusts naked souls quickly through real flames and cold icy realms...in torment. The air is filled with coughs [that surprised me...coughing in Hell], groans, sighs, and screams everywhere...like a noisy backdrop...and wicked spirits fly there...like they are trapped...like bats...filling the air with chaos...and I saw angels there...who are very similar to very big people...except they are created with a perfection that is incomprehensible...that reminded me of REUBENS...AN ARTIST WHO PAINTED THEM...with slight variations in their bodies..and perhaps 20 feet or more in height...longer here, shorter there...CHAINED IN SOLID ROCK MAUSOLEUMS, dug out of 40 feet of solid granite in perfect rectangle jail cells. Their hands and feet were in chained cuffs, and all they did was WRITHE! twisting and screaming to be free.
...Back to the MOONS...everyone in these large balls of souls was magnetized to the center it seemed,,,huge...and eventually...maybe every hundred years or so, they would then be worked back to the edge,,,and then all they got in their agony was the downward view of hideous life below, as I described...I went up close to look at these forlorn...and they moaned and grunted a lot...and their bodies...their private parts forever pressed upon in their squirming...and they moaned in torment...suspended perhaps one hundred feet above the awful landscape below....
THESE, I BELIEVE, WERE THOSE WHO REVELLED IN THE SINS OF THE FLESH...FORNICATION AND SODOMY...AND THIS WAS THEIR ETERNAL REWARD...UNTIL HELL WILL BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!...not too happy of a life...GOD CREATED HELL...AND JESUS SAID TO NOT FEAR HE WHO KILLS THE BODY...BUT TO FEAR HIM WHO, AFTER KILLING THE BODY,..."CASTS HIS SOUL INTO HELL!" It was created by Him for the Angels who rebelled...but mankind also bought into the action. Very sobering and awful...Fear God...Honor Jesus.
Brother Toim Watkins
Brother Tom wrote -
and I saw angels there...who are very similar to very big people...except they are created with a perfection that is incomprehensible...that reminded me of REUBENS...AN ARTIST WHO PAINTED THEM...with slight variations in their bodies..and perhaps 20 feet or more in height...longer here, shorter there...CHAINED IN SOLID ROCK MAUSOLEUMS, dug out of 40 feet of solid granite in perfect rectangle jail cells. Their hands and feet were in chained cuffs, and all they did was WRITHE! twisting and screaming to be free.
Tom would you elaborate on this part about the angels you saw.
Thanks, JLB
and I saw angels there...who are very similar to very big people...except they are created with a perfection that is incomprehensible...that reminded me of REUBENS...AN ARTIST WHO PAINTED THEM...with slight variations in their bodies..and perhaps 20 feet or more in height...longer here, shorter there...CHAINED IN SOLID ROCK MAUSOLEUMS, dug out of 40 feet of solid granite in perfect rectangle jail cells. Their hands and feet were in chained cuffs, and all they did was WRITHE! twisting and screaming to be free.
Tom would you elaborate on this part about the angels you saw.
Thanks, JLB
Justinian,
you offer a valid point
1 Timothy 4:10 "This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Saviorofall people and particularly ofall believers.
The idea is biblical"
This implies all people will be saved especially believers. But it is not of much use as it stands at odds with so many other passages which say not all will be saved. Unless the Biblical testimony is understood holistically and in context it is often contradictory.
1 Tim 4:10 is written to believers, it could mean God is the saviour for all people who wish to chose Him rather than reject Him. It could mean other people apart from believers will be saved. What about those who have never heard the gospel.
But even a legalistic balancing of passages that imply all will be saved is swamped by those which say not all will eb saved.
you offer a valid point
1 Timothy 4:10 "This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Saviorofall people and particularly ofall believers.
The idea is biblical"
This implies all people will be saved especially believers. But it is not of much use as it stands at odds with so many other passages which say not all will be saved. Unless the Biblical testimony is understood holistically and in context it is often contradictory.
1 Tim 4:10 is written to believers, it could mean God is the saviour for all people who wish to chose Him rather than reject Him. It could mean other people apart from believers will be saved. What about those who have never heard the gospel.
But even a legalistic balancing of passages that imply all will be saved is swamped by those which say not all will eb saved.
Any human understand the Bible completly and were it came from who translated it put it together extra? I really dont think so but I'm sure there is poeple who think they do.
Every HUman should be concerned becuase of love...noone who has love in his heart would want anyone to suffer eternally with out chance of redemtion. Endless punishment is Piontless punishment it is useless and makes no sense to me.
Similar threads
