They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament
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No, I do not have a clue about what a spiritual body is. But clearly it is not a natural, physical body.And your implication in the above when compared to your first post in regards to the spiritual body mentioned in scripture, is that you do.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm... That we are believers, JBO, means that we are alive spiritually rather than dead ~ having been made alive in spirit by the Holy Spirit. As Paul says in Ephesians 2, speaking to believers:
"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ... we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
The person who is still in his natural state ~ dead in his sin, as we all are from birth ~ knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5) of the spiritual... that nature, the nature of God.
Yes, because, JBO, we are spiritually alive... made so by God and of God.
We see through a glass dimly now, so as of now, we know in part. But then we shall know fully, even as we have been fully known (1 Corinthians 13:12). One day, JBO, our faith will be sight. Such a great promise.
Grace and peace to you.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
When we die, we turn to dust our basic elements and wait for Christ to raise us at the resurrection, and then and only then is.life restored and our bodies reformed and our minds begin anew.Hmmmm... That we are believers, JBO, means that we are alive spiritually rather than dead ~ having been made alive in spirit by the Holy Spirit. As Paul says in Ephesians 2, speaking to believers:
"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ... we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
The person who is still in his natural state ~ dead in his sin, as we all are from birth ~ knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5) of the spiritual... that nature, the nature of God.
Yes, because, JBO, we are spiritually alive... made so by God and of God.
We see through a glass dimly now, so as of now, we know in part. But then we shall know fully, even as we have been fully known (1 Corinthians 13:12). One day, JBO, our faith will be sight. Such a great promise.
Grace and peace to you.
Well, our physical bodies, yes. We go ~ our spirit goes ~ home to be with Jesus... believers, of course... and wait for Christ's return (and ours with Him), and to be reunited with our re-constituted physical bodies, yes. This is what we sometimes call the intermediate state. And unbelievers go... somewhere else... But in this sense, yes, then we are made completely new, as God says He is doing with all things in Revelation 21:5... He is making all things new (not "making all new things").
That's a very important distinction. Grace and peace to you, Hobie.
And in none of that were you able to describe what spiritual body is. So I stand by what I said earlier; you don't know what a spiritual body is and neither did the apostles.Hmmmm... That we are believers, JBO, means that we are alive spiritually rather than dead ~ having been made alive in spirit by the Holy Spirit. As Paul says in Ephesians 2, speaking to believers:
"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ... we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
The person who is still in his natural state ~ dead in his sin, as we all are from birth ~ knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5) of the spiritual... that nature, the nature of God.
Yes, because, JBO, we are spiritually alive... made so by God and of God.
We see through a glass dimly now, so as of now, we know in part. But then we shall know fully, even as we have been fully known (1 Corinthians 13:12). One day, JBO, our faith will be sight. Such a great promise.
Grace and peace to you.
Well, I wasn’t trying to, JBO. What I did was redirect you to how you should approach it. God created man with his spirit and his physical body united. This was the state of Adam and Eve in Eden before the events documented by Moses in Genesis 3. He and Eve, though, as a result of what they did in Genesis 3, became dead, spiritually ~ they died… again, spiritually ~ just as God said to Adam he would. And this is the natural state of mankind from birth. So, we have a lot of dead ~ in spirit - people walking among us today. Hopefully they don’t remain that way. But you… if you indeed are a Christian born again of the Spirit, are now alive in spirit… in your physical body. I certainly don’t mean to offend, but this whole idea that the spiritual and the physical are mutually exclusive is terribly misguided and wrong. God created physical man alive in spirit also, and this is how it will be again, in full, and the results of the fall will be completely reversed, and there will be no more sin, and all sorrow and sighing, as Isaiah says (35:10) will flee away.
You are welcome to your opinion, of course.
LOL! But you do, right? LOL!
Grace and peace to you.
If you mean to say that mankind is spiritually dead from birth, then you are wrong. God forms the spirit in each of us. He doesn't give us a spirit dead at birth. He gives us a spirit alive and well at birth, Just like Adam and Eve, the spirit of a man dies when he sins. When we are reborn, the spirit comes alive again. That is why it is called REbirth or REgeneration or born AGAIN.
No I don't. I said in reply #22 that I don't have a clue what a spiritual body is.
And neither did the apostles. And neither do you.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
And by the way, that means that Jesus was not in a spiritual body when he arose and came out of the tomb following His death on the cross as some think.
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
In the passage mentioned above, Paul draws a comparison between the qualities of our current body and the resurrected body. However, the terms "natural" and "spiritual" used by him in this context refer to the source of the body, not its nature or essence. In other words, a "natural" body is produced through natural means, such as the birth of a child to parents. On the other hand, a "spiritual" body is created supernaturally, attributed to God’s power and effort.
natural body = a body born of a woman
spiritual (supernatural) body = a body coming through divine or supernatural intervention.
@Fullness of the Gentiles
@JBO
@JBO
1 Corinthians 15:35-36
"But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come? Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies."
1 Corinthians 15:44:
"It is sown a body, natural [Greek: sōma psychikós], it is raised a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós]. There is a body, natural [sōma psychikós], and there is a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós]."
The word psychikós is from the word psychḗ (soul / life / mind).
The word pneumatikós is from the word pneûma (spirit / breath).
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
"For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead [νεκρός nekrós] in Christ shall rise [ἀνίστημι anístēmi] first [πρῶτον prōton]. Then we who are alive [záō] and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."
Paul links the resurrection of the dead in Christ to the return of Christ in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; and explains how the dead will be raised in 1 Corinthians 15:35-57; and in 1 Corinthians 15:4-8 & 1 Corinthians 15:12-26 he explains what the resurrection of the dead is.
In Romans 8:23-25 Paul tells us that we do not yet see the resurrection of the dead, but we wait for it with patience, groaning within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body; and in 2 Timothy 2:16-18 Paul speaks about two men teaching the false doctrine that the resurrection is passed, overthrowing the faith of some.
The resurrection of the body is intricately interwoven with the gospel.
The Bible teaches about:-
1. Adam's death, which came to all mankind; and Christ's (the last Adam's) resurrection from the dead after His sacrifice for Adam's, and all the sons of Adam's sin. Christ IS the Resurrection and the Life. He will raise all those who belong to Him at the last day.
2. The second death: There is no 2nd sacrifice for sin, and no 2nd resurrection following the 2nd death.
John 6:39, 40 & 44 ἀνίστημι anístēmi:
"And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again [anístēmi] at the last day."
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
No such thing as "dead in spirit."Well, I wasn’t trying to, JBO. What I did was redirect you to how you should approach it. God created man with his spirit and his physical body united. This was the state of Adam and Eve in Eden before the events documented by Moses in Genesis 3. He and Eve, though, as a result of what they did in Genesis 3, became dead, spiritually ~ they died… again, spiritually ~ just as God said to Adam he would. And this is the natural state of mankind from birth. So, we have a lot of dead ~ in spirit - people walking among us today. Hopefully they don’t remain that way. But you… if you indeed are a Christian born again of the Spirit, are now alive in spirit… in your physical body. I certainly don’t mean to offend, but this whole idea that the spiritual and the physical are mutually exclusive is terribly misguided and wrong. God created physical man alive in spirit also, and this is how it will be again, in full, and the results of the fall will be completely reversed, and there will be no more sin, and all sorrow and sighing, as Isaiah says (35:10) will flee away.
You are welcome to your opinion, of course.
LOL! But you do, right? LOL!
Grace and peace to you.
That may be true; however, you still have no idea what a spiritual body actually is. There certainly is no indication that a spiritual body is in any sense material or corporal.
What do you think the phrase "dead in the trespasses and sins" as in Ephesians 2:1 means?
It's a tangible body. That's all we need to know. A body is a body.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
This is by way of encouragement and a helpful bit of advice. I appreciate your effort with regard to your word study of "anistemi," and I agree with your observation that in every case where the word is used, it is talking about bodily resurrection.
At the same time, I have found a difference between the dictionary definition of a word and the idea the author, Paul, intended to convey using his words. Believe me, I have translated through Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, and 1 & 2 Thessalonians. And I assumed that translation was a matter of decoding the Greek word into English. Given this assumption, I developed a spreadsheet program that helped me decode the text. (In retrospect, a database program would have worked better.) But after I did this several times, I realized I wasn't any closer to understanding what Paul meant to say than when I first started.
I appreciate your effort with regard to your word study of "anistemi" and I agree with your observation that in every case where the word is used, it is talking about bodily resurrection.
I also agree with your observation that the "rising bodily from the dead" is an essential aspect of the Gospel.
There is no indication that is true. The bible is replete with references to tangible body parts of God; however, most understand that to be symbolic or allegorical.
I agree that the same word does not of necessity mean the same thing every time. I speak two languages and I'm very aware of how one word can mean different things, even in modern languages. The context of the surrounding passage of each place/verse where the word is found will ultimately decide what the author meant.
@CadyandZoe It's always advisable to bear the above in mind, as you pointed out. This is why I said the following in the OP in this thread:
The other words associated with The Resurrection (ho anástasis) are égersis; anístēmi; and egeírō. Sometimes they are used for rising up or rising from sleep in a normal sense, but wherever they are speaking about rising from death, they are speaking about the resurrection of the body from the dead.
If you want it, I made a complete list of all the N.T words used for resurrection and the context each on is found in. It's in a table at the bottom of this page:
The Resurrection of the Body
M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die". That's not God'...
zaoislife.blogspot.com
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