They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

[PinSeeker]

One problem is that some interpreters are taking too many of these things in the literal sense. The earth can pass away without it having to be literally engulfed in flames in order to do so.

And "pass away" can be ~ and should be, regarding what is being discussed here ~ understood in a very different way than "cease to be/exist" or in the sense of annihilation or obliteration or literally burned up.

I've echoed it many times from Scripture: God is not "making all new things," but rather making all things new (Revelation 21:5). Our God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 10:26-27, 12:29). Which applies to both unbelievers and believers, albeit in very different ways.

Unbelievers:
Hebrews 10:26-27 is very interesting: "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." The writer of Hebrews is referring directly to what Moses quotes God as saying in Exodus 22:31 ~ "I have poured out my indignation upon them. I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath. I have returned their way upon their heads..." This will be the result of the final Judgment for unbelievers, the wicked. They will not be literally burned up (not obliterated or annihilated) but all their wrongdoing will be returned to them, and they will remain under ~ even immersed in, as in the "lake of fire"... consumed by ~ God's judgment for eternity. Not a hard concept to grasp. Terribly frightening to even contemplate, for sure, but not hard.

Believers:
God’s purpose is to purify us ("...our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession..." ~ Titus 2:14), and the Holy Spirit is the agent of our sanctification ("...you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" ~ 1 Corinthians 6:11; "...God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" ~ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit" ~ 1 Peter 1:2). As the silversmith uses fire to purge the dross from the precious metal, so God uses the Spirit to remove our sin from us ("For you, O God, have tested us; you have tried us as silver is tried" ~ Psalm 66:10; "The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold and the LORD tests hearts" ~ Proverbs 17:3). His fire cleanses and refines... or, better stated, He is the Fire that cleanses and refines and purifies... and this is what it means that He is a consuming fire and that He is making all things new. The concept is not hard to grasp at all. It's utterly magnificent, even beyond our wildest imagination. But... it's not hard.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree, and have never said otherwise. The mystery revealed is that Gentiles not Jews shall complete/fill up/finish building the spiritual Kingdom of God as they are born again.

But I'm not surprised that you would come up with some imaginative understanding of what I've actually stated. It's next to impossible to have any exchange with people like you who seem have no ability to discuss what is actually said, but instead makes up the most ridiculous things and then pretends to believe you think this is what was actually said. Your doctrine is hands down one of the most bizarre doctrines I've come across over the many years of posting in the forums.

Except you don't agree, and cannot even put to words what I am saying. You have declared time is up, and creation no longer exists, so saying I am not clearly answering your view is just an excuse not to admit your error in biblical interpretation.

Time is not up when the 7th Trumpet starts to sound. In fact time may be extended 42 months to allow Satan to have 100% control after Jesus had just been given all authority on earth.

That is not bizarre. What is bizarre is all you so called experts on eschatology just keep making things up to please your own human understanding that the very Word of God has become bizarre to you all.

 

[PinSeeker]

Time is not up when the 7th Trumpet starts to sound. In fact time may be extended 42 months to allow Satan to have 100% control after Jesus had just been given all authority on earth.

When Christ Jesus returns, He returns. As Paul says, "...the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God" (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

That is not bizarre.

Agreed. But "extending the time"? No... The 42 months, or three and a half years, is half of seven years, and should be seen as a cutting short of the time of tribulation and Satan's loosing for the sake of the elect rather than any kind of "extension" of anything.

What is bizarre is all you so called experts on eschatology just keep making things up to please your own human understanding that the very Word of God has become bizarre to you all.

There's a lot of that to go around, here...

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Timtofly]

"and the EARTH"...................."reserved unto fire"! Do you think this fire reserved for the earth shall not burn it up????????????? Wake UP!

2 Peter 3:7-8 (KJV) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Yes fire destroys all the works of man, just like water destroyed all the works of man during the Flood.

Was there a totally different reality after the Flood? Why would there be after this baptism of fire?

There was a changed and different heaven and earth after the Flood. There will be a changed and different heaven and earth after the baptism of fire at the Second Coming.

But heaven and earth passing away as in no longer in existence is not what Peter is presenting in 2 Peter 3.

Why do you dismiss a thousand years of earth without the bondage of sin? Why do you deny earth without Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and the transgression still holding creation under it's oppressive grip? Why can you not except the Day of the Lord is everlasting righteousness?

You want so desperately this time given in Revelation 20 to represent the last 2 millennia with sin and death still ravaging creation. Do you also hold that Daniel's 70 weeks were over in the first century, and the result is merely spiritual instead of transforming creation itself?

Daniel 9:24

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

Revelation 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

The 70 weeks were not finished in the first century, to seal up and finish this prophecy that seems to many still a mystery today.

It is not just the huge man made difference between Jew and Gentile of the first century that had to be addressed in the NT. It is about the entire offspring of Adam. Noah had 3 sons in case you all stuck between only two of them, realize there is not just a binary view of reality. Some want to even claim there are only Abraham's offspring left on the earth today.

Not to mention the fact that God is still willing to grant salvation to those outside of the confines of the church itself. Many posters here seem to think that the Atonement is only limited to a certain percentage of humanity. Because they accuse me of making stuff up when I point out how wrong they are in their interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

He didn't even do that during Noah's flood, wipe out the entire animal kingdom. Where is the ark that preserves the animal kingdom per your literal nonsensical interpretation of some of these verses in 2 Peter 3?

The "ark" this time will literally be all the angels. We have many verses declaring angels are gathering people throughout the NT. Yes, fire can be selective where water is way more dense in the literal sense of being destructive.

The issue is that the baptism of fire starts this alleged "7 year" period of trouble. This fire that comes as a thief is not after a build up of 7 years of intense human activity. Human activity that is no different than other human activity of the last 6,000 years. That is the whole point of those scoffers who claim nothing has changed since creation week. Obviously humans had to be destroyed with a flood of water. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstone. This earth could receive this baptism of fire at any moment along with a man made holocaust as Satan preemptively tries to minimize God's own judgment on the wicked.

 

[Timtofly]

One problem is that some interpreters are taking too many of these things in the literal sense. The earth can pass away without it having to be literally engulfed in flames in order to do so.

Current heaven and earth are the Words of Jesus. Explain how one can pass away but not the other.

John 1 clearly points out the Word is the source of all things and will be the end result of all things. Judgment was not involved in creation, nor will it be involved at the end when creation returns to God.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

I am not sure people even realize what it really means to not exist. The only non-existence would be if God ceased to exist. That may sound new age, but that is the point behind:

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Heaven and earth are the words of Jesus, according to both Genesis 1 and John 1.

 

[Timtofly]

The reason God, through Noah preserved some of the animals is because He was not at that time finished dealing with physical beings.

The same can be said about the Day of the Lord.

You deny the Day of the Lord, where God is still dealing with humans for the last Millennium on earth.

That is Peter's point, that God was still at work after the Flood, and will still be at work after the baptism of fire.

 

[Zao is life]

I like your answer because it makes sense of the passage. Thanks.

I often engage with individuals who hold the belief of amillennialism. They argue from 2 Peter 3 that because the world will be completely destroyed upon the return of Jesus, there can't be a thousand-year period during which Christ will reign over non-believers. If their interpretation is accurate, it poses a challenge to my perspective."

I don't think Peter's mention of fire in 2 Peter 3:7 refers to the destruction of the entire world. Instead, I believe Peter is referring to the fire predicted in Joel and Malachi, which will destroy arrogant evil-doers living in Israel. In other words, the verse is about the land of Palestine specifically, and not the world in general.

What are your thoughts?

Let's look at words again:

--- For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens (οὐρανός ouranós) were of old, and the earth [γῆ gē] standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world (O κόσμος kósmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished. ---

It does not say the heavens and the earth perished, but the world - all flesh - in it.

2 Peter 3:7
"But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."

Same heavens and earth. The day of judgment of ungodly men (again).

--- But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the 1. elements [stoicheîon] shall be 2. dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat, the earth also and the 3. works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up. --- 2 Peter 3:10.

1. stoicheîon refers to the rudiments of the world in every New Testament verse the word appears in;

2. lýō refers to something that was bound, being loosed;

3. érgon refers in some verses to the works of God, and in a very long list of verses, to the works of men or of Satan.

11 Then, all these things being about to be dissolved, what sort ought you to be in holy behavior and godliness,
12 looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat?
13 But according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.​

The context is what Peter had been talking about - the subject - false teachers and ungodly men.

@CadyandZoe Added:

With regard to your other question, my reply depends on what part of Joel you are referring to. I do not believe that Joel Chapter 3 is referring to the judgment of people living in Israel, but of all the nations that will come against the people living in Israel, whereas Joel Chapter 1:1 to Chapter 2:11 is speaking about the Roman armies gathering against Jerusalem in 70 A.D, but the rest is about repentance on the part of Israel and the judgment of the nations.

I believe Malachi has to do with the period leading up to, and including the coming of the Messiah (His first advent).

 

[Zao is life]

One problem is that some interpreters are taking too many of these things in the literal sense. The earth can pass away without it having to be literally engulfed in flames in order to do so.

The words passed away are translated from a Greek word also used for suddenly seizing upon in scripture. Also for passing by. Also for coming near. Also for passing nearby. Also for a time or festival that has passed.

The more I study this passage in scripture the less convinced I am that it means anything remotely like the heavens passing away as in "ceasing to exist"

Luke 12:37: Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come near [parérchomai] and serve them.

Acts 24:7: But the chief captain Lysias came upon [parérchomai] us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands.

Isaiah 29:6: You shall be visited by the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake and great noise, with storm and whirlwind, and the flame of devouring fire.

-- But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away [parérchomai] with a great noise --

and the 1. elements [stoicheîon] shall be 2. dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat, the earth also and the 3. works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up. -- 2 Peter 3:10.

1. stoicheîon refers to the rudiments of the world in every New Testament verse the word appears in;

2. lýō refers to something that was bound, being loosed;

3. érgon refers in some verses to the works of God, and in a very long list of verses, to the works of men or of Satan.

IMO Peter is talking about what @PinSeeker said in this post he's talking about:

They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

One problem is that some interpreters are taking too many of these things in the literal sense. The earth can pass away without it having to be literally engulfed in flames in order to do so. And "pass away" can be ~ and should be, regarding what is being discussed here ~ understood in a very...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Davidpt]

The words passed away are translated from a Greek word also used for suddenly seizing upon in scripture. Also for passing by. Also for coming near. Also for passing nearby. Also for a time or festival that has passed.

The more I study this passage in scripture the less convinced I am that it means anything remotely like the heavens passing away as in "ceasing to exist"

Luke 12:37: Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come near [parérchomai] and serve them.

Acts 24:7: But the chief captain Lysias came upon [parérchomai] us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands.

-- But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away [parérchomai] with a great noise --

and the 1. elements [stoicheîon] shall be 2. dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat, the earth also and the 3. works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up. -- 2 Peter 3:10.

1. stoicheîon refers to the rudiments of the world in every New Testament verse the word appears in;

2. lýō refers to something that was bound, being loosed;

3. érgon refers in some verses to the works of God, and in a very long list of verses, to the works of men or of Satan.

IMO Peter is talking about what @PinSeeker said in this post he's talking about:

They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

One problem is that some interpreters are taking too many of these things in the literal sense. The earth can pass away without it having to be literally engulfed in flames in order to do so. And "pass away" can be ~ and should be, regarding what is being discussed here ~ understood in a very...

www.christianityboard.com

I for sure don't take it to mean the earth no longer exists, thus a brand new one needs to replace it. Yet, at the same time, obviously, real literal changes are going to be made to the earth and it's atmosphere that man has been polluting with chemicals via smog pollution and all of those things. Which wasn't even a problem until maybe the early 20th century or maybe sooner. Then there is nuclear waste that gets dumped who knows where. Might already be in our water supply. So on and so on. Clearly, those things will have to be fixed and removed altogether. Yet, it shouldn't require having to replace one earth with a totally different one, though.

 

[Timtofly]

Agreed. But "extending the time"? No... The 42 months, or three and a half years, is half of seven years, and should be seen as a cutting short of the time of tribulation and Satan's loosing for the sake of the elect rather than any kind of "extension" of anything.

That 42 months is the 3rd woe associated with the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet already sounded prior to those 42 months, so yes, an extension of time. It is not the half of seven years. Don't you accept that 7 years, the 70th week of Daniel was over in the first century? How can there be 2, 7 year periods?

I go with the lesser accepted fact that Daniel 9:27 is a set of 7 days, not 7 years. Some translations even say 7 days. So the days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet is Daniel 9:27. In the midst of that week, Satan and his angels are both cast out of heaven for the last time, and may or may not be granted 42 months.

The confirmation of the Atonement Covenant is in regards to those beheaded during those 42 months. They are the many still redeemed even during Satan's time of Abomination of Desolation. All the rest of the redeemed have already been removed and waiting for the end, by the time the 7th Trumpet sounds.

We see those waiting in the 5th Seal. We see those waiting on the sea of glass in Revelation 15. All having already overcome what Satan has to offer.

 

[Zao is life]

I for sure don't take it to mean the earth no longer exists, thus a brand new one needs to replace it. Yet, at the same time, obviously, real literal changes are going to be made to the earth and it's atmosphere that man has been polluting with chemicals via smog pollution and all of those things. Which wasn't even a problem until maybe the early 20th century or maybe sooner. Then there is nuclear waste that gets dumped who knows where. Might already be in our water supply. So on and so on. Clearly, those things will have to be fixed and removed altogether. Yet, it shouldn't require having to replace one earth with a totally different one, though.

I agree.

Isaiah 29:6
You shall be visited by the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake and great noise, with storm and whirlwind, and the flame of devouring fire.

It's the language that is used in prophecy whenever the judgment of God produced by His anger or wrath is being spoken about.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Let's look at words again:

--- For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens (οὐρανός ouranós) were of old, and the earth [γῆ gē] standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world (O κόσμος kósmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished. ---

It does not say the heavens and the earth perished, but the world - all flesh - in it.

2 Peter 3:7
"But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."

Same heavens and earth. The day of judgment of ungodly men (again).

--- But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the 1. elements [stoicheîon] shall be 2. dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat, the earth also and the 3. works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up. --- 2 Peter 3:10.

1. stoicheîon refers to the rudiments of the world in every New Testament verse the word appears in;

2. lýō refers to something that was bound, being loosed;

3. érgon refers in some verses to the works of God, and in a very long list of verses, to the works of men or of Satan.

11 Then, all these things being about to be dissolved, what sort ought you to be in holy behavior and godliness,
12 looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat?
13 But according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.​

The context is what Peter had been talking about - the subject - false teachers and ungodly men.

@CadyandZoe Added:

With regard to your other question, my reply depends on what part of Joel you are referring to. I do not believe that Joel Chapter 3 is referring to the judgment of people living in Israel, but of all the nations that will come against the people living in Israel, whereas Joel Chapter 1:1 to Chapter 2:11 is speaking about the Roman armies gathering against Jerusalem in 70 A.D, but the rest is about repentance on the part of Israel and the judgment of the nations.

I believe Malachi has to do with the period leading up to, and including the coming of the Messiah (His first advent).

Let's assume, for the sake of our investigation, that Peter is talking about the destruction of the heavens and the earth. How does this concept relate to the Day of the Lord? Don't we understand that the "Day of the Lord" is associated with God's dominion over the earth? These two ideas don't go together, do they? God gains dominion over the earth by destroying it? I don't get that. What am I missing?

p.s. These are friendly questions. I am not being critical of you or your ideas. I would love to get your opinion.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You're beginning to sound like a Preterit???

Preterism?
I am uncertain about the meaning of the term "Preterist" these days, so it would be difficult for me to answer your question. I suppose my viewpoint could be classified as "partial Preterism," but I'm unsure if that category is useful. Some prophecies have already come to pass, but I'm not sure if my list of fulfilled prophesies matches someone else's list.

For instance, I believe that the Great Tribulation began at the stoning of Stephan and continues even until today. I believe that the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple has already taken place in 70AD. On the other hand, I would place the coming of the antiChrist in our future. These are but a few examples of things that might help define my beliefs. But I suspect that one would not have a clear picture of where I stand without more examples.

During the days of the flood the world then overflowed with water, perished. World then is here translated from Kosmos which as you know is orderly arrangement/adorning, including its inhabitants that all drowned by the flood waters, except for all that was in the ark. Perished without ambiguity means to destroy fully. Peter writes so it shall be on the day the Lord will come again. If this is reference for the destruction of evil-does living in Israel, why is it compared to the world and inhabitants that lived during the days of the universal flood upon the whole earth?

2 Peter 3:3-7 (KJV) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

If this is reference for the destruction of evil-does living in Israel, why is it compared to the world and inhabitants that lived during the days of the universal flood upon the whole earth?

Before I answer this good question, I would like to answer one of my own first.

If Peter is talking about the Earth, what makes me think that Peter might be talking about an event particularly located in Palestine?
Interestingly enough, both the Greek and Hebrew words for "earth" can either refer to the planet, or the land. The Jewish people are known as the "people of the land" because God made a land promise to them. In addition, when God was displeased with Israel, he removed them from the land, and when God remembered Israel once again, he brought them back to the land.

With this in mind, I am left with an interpretive question. Did Peter refer to the planet earth, or did he refer to the land of Israel? Peter talks about a new heavens and a new earth. He also compares the event to the Great Flood. This is clear evidence that Peter might be talking about the planet earth.

If Peter meant "land" rather than "earth" this changes things. On one hand, the Day of the Lord is associated with a purification of the land of Palestine through fire, as mentioned by the OT prophets. On the other hand, the prophets also speak about the recovery of Israel's prosperity and the restoration of the desolate areas of the country after wars and famines have caused destruction and devastation. I have yet to find an OT prophet who associates the Day of the Lord with global destruction and catastrophe.

But my mind is open to your proposal if you wish to share it.

If my proposal were true, Peter's comparison would be focused on the central point of those who believe that the world will continue in its current state without any changes or disruptions. The Great Flood is an extreme example that disproves that view. If Peter were arguing from the greater to the lesser, his point might be, "If the Great Flood disproves the steady-state theory, then a local destruction of Palestine is not out of the question."

Hopefully that helps. But I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Current heaven and earth are the Words of Jesus. Explain how one can pass away but not the other.

John 1 clearly points out the Word is the source of all things and will be the end result of all things. Judgment was not involved in creation, nor will it be involved at the end when creation returns to God.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

I am not sure people even realize what it really means to not exist. The only non-existence would be if God ceased to exist. That may sound new age, but that is the point behind:

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Heaven and earth are the words of Jesus, according to both Genesis 1 and John 1.

I would like to make an observation that might contribute to our conversation. I was reading Jeremiah's prophecy and immediately thought about what Jesus said.

Jeremiah 33:23-26

And the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, saying, “Have you not observed what this people have spoken, saying, ‘The two families which the Lord chose, He has rejected them’? Thus they despise My people, no longer are they as a nation in their sight. Thus says the Lord, ‘If My covenant for day and night stand not, and the fixed patterns of heaven and earth I have not established, then I would reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, not taking from his descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.’”​

​

How should I evaluate what Jesus said in light of what Jeremiah said? We should believe both men. So then, perhaps Jesus refers to the end of history as recorded in Revelation 20:11-15. Perhaps that is the moment when God's covenant with Israel comes to an end?

 

[Phoneman777]

The New Testament was not written in English. It was written in Greek (though many Christians make Greek out of what the New Testament says in English).

Note that the fact that people being killed specifically for refusing to worship the beast or his image, or receiving his mark or the number of his name, is mentioned only twice in the Revelation (Revelation 13:11-18 and Revelation 20:4), makes Revelation 20:4-6 a marker that indicates that Revelation chapter 20 follows Christ's destruction of the beast in the lake of fire (which we read about for the last time in Revelation 19:11-21).

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands.

And they lived [záō] and reigned with Christ * a thousand years. *

* This is the first "the resurrection" (o anastasis). Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4-6)

* Linked with this passage are the thrones that John saw, and the judgment (in the sense of ruling as judges) given to the souls mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6.

Not one New Testament verse employing any of the words associated with The Resurrection (ho anástasis) is not talking about the resurrection of the body. Not one (list of verses to follow).

Not one New Testament verse using the word záō is not talking either about the living God, or about people who are alive in their own bodies. Not one (list of verses to follow).

As far as those who had been beheaded are concerned, their "living" (zao) following their beheading only means one thing in the context of the passage:

Záō: list of verses

Below is a list of the New Testament scriptures using the Greek word záō (alive). All of them are referring either to the living (záō) God, or in reference to being alive (záō) in human bodies:-

|| Matthew 16:16; Matthew 22:32; Matthew 26:63; Matthew 27:63; Mark 5:23; Mark 12:27; Mark 16:11; Luke 2:36; Luke 4:4; Luke 10:28; Luke 15:13; Luke 20:38; Luke 24:5; Luke 24:23; John 4:10; John 4:11; John 4:50; John 4:51; John 4:53; John 5:25; John 6:51; John 6:57; John 6:58; John 6:69; John 7:38; John 11:25; John 11:26; John 14:19; Acts 1:3; Acts 7:38; Acts 9:41; Acts 10:42; Acts 14:15; Acts 17:28; Acts 20:12; Acts 22:22; Acts 25:19; Acts 25:24; Acts 26:5; Acts 28:4; Romans 1:17; Romans 6:2; Romans 6:10; Romans 6:11; Romans 6:13; Romans 7:1; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:3; Romans 7:9; Romans 8:12; Romans 8:13; Romans 9:26; Romans 10:5; Romans 12:1; Romans 14:7; Romans 14:8; Romans 14:9; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:11; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 2:14; Galatians 2:19; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:11; Galatians 3:12; Galatians 5:25; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 1:22; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:7; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 3:12; 2 Timothy 4:1; Titus 2:12; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:12; Hebrews 7:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 10:38; Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:22; James 4:15; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 4:5; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 John 4:9; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 7:2; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 13:14; Revelation 15:7; Revelation 16:3; Revelation 19:20 (cast alive into the lake of fire); Revelation 20:4. ||

Mankind was created to live on earth, in a body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". The Greek noun used in the New Testament for bodily resurrection from death is ho anástasis: ("The Resurrection"). Without exception, each and every time the word anástasis appears in the New Testament, it's referring to (the) resurrection of the body (which is an integral part of the gospel):-

|| Matthew 22:23, 28 & 30-31; Mark 12:18 & 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27, 33, 35-36; John 5:29; John 11:24-25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18, 32; Acts 23:6, 8; Acts 24:15, 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12-13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10; II Timothy 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; I Peter 1:3; I Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

The other words associated with The Resurrection (ho anástasis) are égersis; anístēmi; and egeírō.

Note: Sometimes they are used for rising up or rising from sleep in a normal sense, but wherever they are speaking about rising from death, they are speaking about the resurrection of the body from the dead":-

|| Matthew 9:25; Matthew 10:8; Matthew 11:5; Matthew 14:2; Matthew 17:9; Matthew 16:21; Matthew 17:23; Matthew 20:19; Matthew 26:32; Matthew 27:52-53 & 63-64; Matthew 28:6-7; Mark 6:14 & 16; Mark 12:26; Mark 14:28; Mark 16:6 & 14; Luke 7:14; Luke 7:22; Luke 8:54; Luke 9:7 & 22; Luke 14:13-14; Luke 20:37; Luke 24:6; Luke 24:34; John 2:19-21; John 5:21; John 5:28-29; John 6:39, 40 & 44; John 11:23-35; John 12:1, 9 & 17; John 21:14; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:24, 31-32; Acts 3:15 & 26; Acts 4:1-2, 10 & 33; Acts 5:30; Acts 10:40; Acts 13:30 & 33-37; Acts 17:18 & 31-32; Acts 23:6-8; Acts 24:15 & 21; Acts 26:8; Romans 1:4; Romans 4:23-25; Romans 6:4-5; Romans 6:9; Romans 7:4; Romans 8:11; Romans 8:34; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 15:4, 12-23, 35-36, 42-45, 50-57; 2 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 4:14; 2 Corinthians 5:15; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:20; Ephesians 2:5-6; Ephesians 5:14; Philippians 3:10-11; Colossians 2:12-13; Colossians 3:1 (Compare with Romans 6:5); 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16; 2 Timothy 2:8 & 18; Hebrews 6:1-2; Hebrews 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3-5; 1 Peter 1:21; 1 Peter 3:18 & 21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

I've quoted each and every verse listed above in a table at the bottom of the following page:

The Resurrection of the Body

M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die". That's not God'...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

Revelation 20:4-6 is talking about people who had been literally beheaded for refusal to worship the beast, who had literally risen from the dead with spiritual bodies, reigning with Christ a thousand years. Nothing else. Anything else is making an unknown Greek of the English.

".. BUT .. " the argument goes, ".. it's talking about a spiritual resurrection. There is first a spiritual resurrection (when we are born of the Spirit), then a resurrection of the body."

Well, if that's been your argument, then please consider the following questions:

1. Bearing in mind that all the words used in reference to resurrection in the New Testament are talking only about the resurrection of the body from the dead, when did you die spiritually?,

2. Where are the New Testament verses that use any one of the words used in reference to the resurrection that talk about a spiritual resurrection?​

I always remind folks that the Bible speaks of only TWO kinds of bodies, the mortal "house of this earthly tabernacle" and the resurrection "house of God, eternal in the heavens" - and that's the only two kinds of bodies God's Bible knows about.

The Rich Man and Lazarus and Abraham are illegitimately invested with ridiculous ideas of an interim placeholder "disembodied body" or "spirit body" between the mortal we're clothed in now and resurrection body we get at the glorious coming of Christ in order to account for the tongues, eyes, fingers, bosoms (and all other associated "disembodied bodily anatomy" like vocal cords and legs for carrying a warning to others), so that the passage may be used to maintain the serpent's false narrative that the dead are not "surely" dead.

However, 2 Corinthians 5 is clear that the interim between being clothed in our mortal body and being clothed in our resurrection body --- is the interim of being "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, in the grave, dead, in a state of insensibility, waiting for the Second Coming - the very place Job says he'd wait. Paul first points all this out, then expresses his desire to shed his mortal body, skip the "naked" and "unclothed" interim, and just go on to be with Christ in his resurrection body, but he knew that didn't happen at death, but "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" which is, of course, at the glorious Second Coming.

 

[Phoneman777]

There is only a bodily resurrection every time the spirit is just the breath of life, but people get confused and try to make it more.

The reason for so much confusion about death is due to the failure to Biblically differentiate between the Body, Soul, and Spirit.

When someone says "the Soul never dies because the spirit shall return to God Who gave it" I always ask them if they can return to the Moon. After they recover from the cognitive short circuit, do they abandon this idea and understand for the first time that what returns to God is only Spirit that initially left God to unite with the Body in order to produce the living Soul? Do they then allow logical progression to carry them home to the truth that the Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Spirit and at death when the Spirit returns to God and the Body returns to dust, the Soul ceases to exist?

Nope.

They appeal to the Rich Man and Lazarus, or misquote/misapprehend 2 Corinthians 5, or insist God is the "God of the living", etc., all of which can be easily shown to not support the false idea of innate immortality of the Soul whatsoever.

 

[Phoneman777]

Per this scenario this would indicate that these cast into the LOF can never die the 2nd death if they are in immortal bodies, thus everlasting conscious torment . The question is, how did they obtain these immortal bodies to begin with when there are no Scriptures indicating that the unsaved receive immortal bodies as well?

The wicked are not granted the gift of immortality, and thus will not suffer eternal torment, for there cannot be never-ending torment if there is no never-ending sinner. Only those who "seek for immortality" are granted immortality (Romans 2:7-9 KJV). The wicked will burn up and out of existence in the LOF which is the Second Death, an eternal death, an everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

 

[ewq1938]

However, 2 Corinthians 5 is clear that the interim between being clothed in our mortal body and being clothed in our resurrection body --- is the interim of being "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, in the grave, dead, in a state of insensibility, waiting for the Second Coming

"in a state of insensibility" is not expressed in that passage because, it is not biblical. The dead in heaven and hades are shown to be awake and alert and even speaking as in the 5th seal of Rev.

 

[Phoneman777]

"in a state of insensibility" is not expressed in that passage because, it is not biblical. The dead in heaven and hades are shown to be awake and alert and even speaking as in the 5th seal of Rev.

By that logic, the Antichrist is going to be a literal seven headed, ten horned beast that comes out of the sea, right?

Probably not a good idea make symbolic elements of the most symbolic book in the Bible literal.