They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

[Zao is life]

Let's assume, for the sake of our investigation, that Peter is talking about the destruction of the heavens and the earth. How does this concept relate to the Day of the Lord? Don't we understand that the "Day of the Lord" is associated with God's dominion over the earth? These two ideas don't go together, do they? God gains dominion over the earth by destroying it? I don't get that. What am I missing?

p.s. These are friendly questions. I am not being critical of you or your ideas. I would love to get your opinion.

I agree with your questioning why the heavens and the earth would need to be destroyed. Especially because of the promises to Jesus, the Son of man, the Son of God, the last Adam, regarding Him reigning on the earth:

Psalm 8:3-9
"When I look at Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars which You have established; what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?

For You have made him a little lower than God; - (Hebrew: 'elohiym, see Genesis 1:26-27 Hebrews 1:3) - and have crowned him with glory and honor. You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet:

all sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field; the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, and all that pass through the paths of the seas. O Jehovah, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth!"

But now we see not yet [nŷn] all things having been put under him. Hebrews 2:8b

GOD'S PURPOSE

And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth. (Genesis 1:26)

But now we see not yet [nŷn] all things having been put under him. Hebrews 2:8b

Psalm 2:7-8
“I will declare the decree of the LORD. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession.”

But now we see not yet [nŷn] all things having been put under him. Hebrews 2:8b
​

I believe in a literal thousand years following the return of Christ - but I believe it's all about Him because He is the Son of Man, the last Adam, the Son of God and it is right for Him to reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

So the idea that the earth will be destroyed when Jesus returns robs God of His purpose and Christ of His Kingship, IMO.

And that's aside from the fact that I don't believe 2 Peter 3:10 is saying that the heavens and earth will be destroyed.​

 

[PinSeeker]

That 42 months is the 3rd woe associated with the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet already sounded prior to those 42 months, so yes, an extension of time. It is not the half of seven years. Don't you accept that 7 years, the 70th week of Daniel was over in the first century? How can there be 2, 7 year periods?

I go with the lesser accepted fact that Daniel 9:27 is a set of 7 days, not 7 years. Some translations even say 7 days. So the days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet is Daniel 9:27. In the midst of that week, Satan and his angels are both cast out of heaven for the last time, and may or may not be granted 42 months.

The confirmation of the Atonement Covenant is in regards to those beheaded during those 42 months. They are the many still redeemed even during Satan's time of Abomination of Desolation. All the rest of the redeemed have already been removed and waiting for the end, by the time the 7th Trumpet sounds.

We see those waiting in the 5th Seal. We see those waiting on the sea of glass in Revelation 15. All having already overcome what Satan has to offer.

This is a misunderstanding and mis-ordering if things described in Revelation 11-15 and mid-synthesizing Daniel’s prophecy with John’s. I don’t totally disagree with you, Timtofly, but at least to a significant degree. I’ll just say the following here:

* The 42 months and 1260 days of Revelation 11:2-3 and the three and a half days in 11:9, 11 and the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the time/times/half-a-time of Revelation 12:14 and the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 are all descriptions of the same period. It is half of seven years, which from a symbolic point of view suggests a complete period of suffering, cut short by half. The main background is found in Daniel 7:25, which in turn is related to other passages in Daniel (9:27; 12:7, 11-12). like other numbers in Revelation, this one is symbolic in character, and related to the three and a half days in 11:9, 11. It then designates a period of persecution of limited length.

* No, I don’t accept that 7 years, the 70th week of Daniel was over in the first century, because… that’s not the case. This is further than I intended to go, here, but the last week of years, seven symbolical years, stands for the time of inaugurated eschatology, after the Messiah has come and accomplished redemption (Daniel 9:26a). In the middle of the last week the sanctuary is destroyed (Daniel 9:27), which took place in 70 A.D. The period from 70 A.D. to the Second Coming is the last half week of Daniel’s prophecy, a period of trouble and persecution as in Daniel 7:25. The 1260 days is thus the entire interadvent period, viewed as a time of persecution and distress (2 Timothy 3:1-13; 2 Thessalonians 1:4-8).

* I think we agree that there are not two seven-year periods.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[Zao is life]

The reason for so much confusion about death is due to the failure to Biblically differentiate between the Body, Soul, and Spirit.

When someone says "the Soul never dies because the spirit shall return to God Who gave it" I always ask them if they can return to the Moon. After they recover from the cognitive short circuit, do they abandon this idea and understand for the first time that what returns to God is only Spirit that initially left God to unite with the Body in order to produce the living Soul? Do they then allow logical progression to carry them home to the truth that the Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Spirit and at death when the Spirit returns to God and the Body returns to dust, the Soul ceases to exist?

Nope.

They appeal to the Rich Man and Lazarus, or misquote/misapprehend 2 Corinthians 5, or insist God is the "God of the living", etc., all of which can be easily shown to not support the false idea of innate immortality of the Soul whatsoever.

If only everyone would appeal to the scriptures more, as they do.

The greatest biblical evidence that this "place" called hades exists and is populated by souls who are both self-aware and aware of their surroundings, consists in the fact that Jesus descended into sheol/hades (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27, 31), where He proclaimed or heralded (Greek: kērýssō) the gospel to certain souls who were imprisoned there (1 Peter 3:18-20).​

A Psalm of David concerning the Messiah (Jesus):

Psalm 16:10
"For You will not leave My soul [nephesh] in sheol; You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption."

It was quoted by Christ's apostle Peter:

Acts 2:27
"You will not leave My soul [psychḗ] in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption."

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [chay] soul [nephesh]." -- Genesis 2:7

​

There are those who believe that when the human body dies, the soul dies with the body (and they discount the possibility that the dead continue to be aware of anything),

but not only do we know that Jesus descended into hades when He died, heralding the gospel there to souls who must have been self-aware and aware of their surroundings, but besides this, if sheol / hades, which is mentioned repeatedly in scripture, is a mythical "place", then the biblical scriptures would not even mention such a "place".

See for example:-

(Note that the Hebrew word nephesh is the equivalent of the Greek word psychḗ, and the Hebrew word sheol is the equivalent of the Greek word háidēs):

Proverbs 23:14
"Do not withhold correction from a boy, for if you beat him with the rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with the rod, and shall deliver his soul [nephesh, psychḗ] from sheol [hades]".

Psalms 86:12-13
"I confess Thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart, And I honour Thy name to the age. For Thy kindness is great toward me, And Thou hast delivered my soul [Hebrew nephesh] from the lowest Sheol."

1 Corinthians 15:55
"O death [thánatos], where is your sting? O grave [háidēs], where is your victory?"

The many examples where sheol / hades is spoken of as the abode of the dead (or the abode of departed souls or spirits) implies that sheol / hades is a very real, rather than a mythical "place" - and if sheol / hades exists, it has a "population" (because it's the population of sheol / hades that causes it to exist), and if it has a population, then it means that the soul, or at least the self-awareness of the person, continues after physical death.

If this were not the case, then death and hades "delivering up the dead in them" to face judgement (Revelation 20:13) would not make sense.

In the Revelation, the name of Jesus is said to be both known and praised under the earth:
​

"Therefore God has highly exalted Him (Jesus),
and has given Him a name which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones,
and of ones under the earth;
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father."
(Philippians 2:9-11).​

​

"And I heard every creature which is in the Heaven and on the earth,
and under the earth, and those that are in the sea,
and all who are in them, saying,
Blessing and honor and glory and power be
to Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb forever and ever."
(Revelation 5:13).​

In ancient Greek mythology haides was the god of the underworld. His name later became synonymous with the underworld (the abode of departed souls, or the abode of the dead). It's not surprising then that in the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuaginta or "Septuagint"), the Hebrew word sheol is always translated as haides. Sheol (Hebrew) or haides (Greek) was understood even at the time of Jesus to refer to the abode of the dead.

Revelation 20:13-15
And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hades delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
And death and hades were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Hades and death, it seems, are two sides of the same coin: Paul tells us that death is the last enemy to be destroyed (1 Corinthians 15:26), and when this comes to pass, it will obviously render sheol/hades empty.

In Revelation 20:13-15 Jesus seems to be making a clear distinction between hades on one hand, and the lake of fire and brimstone on the other, where like gehenna, the lake of fire and brimstone is a place of destruction.​

In the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, the word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction which is consistent throughout the New Testament between the body and the soul.

Soma: The body.
Sarx: The flesh.
psychḗ: The soul.
Pneuma: Spirit.

So indeed when they appeal to Jesus' parable about Lazarus and the rich man, they are appealing to scripture, which they should do. We should all appeal to scripture - and nothing else - for our doctrine.

 

[rwb]

Preterism?
I am uncertain about the meaning of the term "Preterist" these days, so it would be difficult for me to answer your question. I suppose my viewpoint could be classified as "partial Preterism," but I'm unsure if that category is useful. Some prophecies have already come to pass, but I'm not sure if my list of fulfilled prophesies matches someone else's list.

For instance, I believe that the Great Tribulation began at the stoning of Stephan and continues even until today. I believe that the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple has already taken place in 70AD. On the other hand, I would place the coming of the antiChrist in our future. These are but a few examples of things that might help define my beliefs. But I suspect that one would not have a clear picture of where I stand without more examples.

I agree! I too find it difficult to make a definitive statement of what PP is. IMO PP causes confusion. I believe 70 AD should be understood simply as the historical time reference for when the words of Christ of God's coming wrath for Israel of Old came to pass. I also agree that great tribulation began when the Gospel of the Kingdom of God began to be preached unto all the nations of the world. And that Stephen would have been one of if not the earliest martyr for the Kingdom of God under the New Covenant through Christ.

If Peter is talking about the Earth, what makes me think that Peter might be talking about an event particularly located in Palestine?
Interestingly enough, both the Greek and Hebrew words for "earth" can either refer to the planet, or the land. The Jewish people are known as the "people of the land" because God made a land promise to them. In addition, when God was displeased with Israel, he removed them from the land, and when God remembered Israel once again, he brought them back to the land.

With this in mind, I am left with an interpretive question. Did Peter refer to the planet earth, or did he refer to the land of Israel? Peter talks about a new heavens and a new earth. He also compares the event to the Great Flood. This is clear evidence that Peter might be talking about the planet earth.

If Peter meant "land" rather than "earth" this changes things. On one hand, the Day of the Lord is associated with a purification of the land of Palestine through fire, as mentioned by the OT prophets. On the other hand, the prophets also speak about the recovery of Israel's prosperity and the restoration of the desolate areas of the country after wars and famines have caused destruction and devastation. I have yet to find an OT prophet who associates the Day of the Lord with global destruction and catastrophe.

But my mind is open to your proposal if you wish to share it.

I view the Old Covenant nation not as people of the land, but as the chosen people of God. The nation of Old was chosen to be the physical representation of the Kingdom of God on earth. Writing 'earth' is saying that part of the 'world' that is of 'dry land' or simply 'land'. Distinguished from seas, or waters also belonging to the 'world.'

Peter is speaking of what shall come to pass when Christ comes again. That shall not be until the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete, when the seventh trumpet begins to sound. The Day of the Lord had a beginning with the advent of Christ coming a man. And the Day of the Lord shall have an end on the last day when Christ comes again. All of the Old Covenant Prophets prophesy of this Day/Age/Time/Era when the promised Messiah/Redeemer would come. All they prophesied to come began with the first advent of Christ, and we see the prophesies beginning to be fulfilled most clearly on the day of Pentecost. These things cannot be understood if you try to force physical fulfillment of the things that belong to the spiritual Kingdom of God.

 

[rwb]

However, 2 Corinthians 5 is clear that the interim between being clothed in our mortal body and being clothed in our resurrection body --- is the interim of being "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, in the grave, dead, in a state of insensibility, waiting for the Second Coming - the very place Job says he'd wait. Paul first points all this out, then expresses his desire to shed his mortal body, skip the "naked" and "unclothed" interim, and just go on to be with Christ in his resurrection body, but he knew that didn't happen at death, but "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" which is, of course, at the glorious Second Coming.

Yes, after physical death our mortal body returns to the earth. When death of his mortal body came, Paul writes that he shall be present with the Lord. That's because the spirit (breath of life) of man returns to God who gave it after our mortal body dies. (Ecc 12:7) Why would Paul long to be present with the Lord in heaven if death of his mortal body meant he would have no life at all? Because Paul had the Holy Spirit from Christ in him, promising to be with believers until the resurrection of our mortal body changed to immortal and incorruptible in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. Which as you say shall be when Christ comes again, bringing with Him the spiritual body of believers alive with Him in heaven after physical death.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The context below shows us Paul believed that he would be present with the Lord when his mortal body of flesh died. Then he would be clothed with a house which is from heaven, which would be a celestial/heavenly body, like Christ, and as are the angels of God in heaven, a spiritual body of believers not naked but clothed with our house from above. While it's true Paul also looked forward to the day when his mortal body would be physically resurrected immortal, but in the interim he would be content to be present with the Lord clothed with a house/tabernacle/spiritual body that is of heaven through the Spirit in us.

2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (KJV) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 3:20-21 (KJV) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:46-49 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[ewq1938]

By that logic, the Antichrist is going to be a literal seven headed, ten horned beast that comes out of the sea, right?

Probably not a good idea make symbolic elements of the most symbolic book in the Bible literal.

This is a red herring fallacy to distract away from the actual subject about whether the dead are unconscious in the ground, or conscious in heaven.

 

[Davidpt]

The wicked are not granted the gift of immortality, and thus will not suffer eternal torment, for there cannot be never-ending torment if there is no never-ending sinner. Only those who "seek for immortality" are granted immortality (Romans 2:7-9 KJV). The wicked will burn up and out of existence in the LOF which is the Second Death, an eternal death, an everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

That is my view as well. I don't know for 100% certain if this view is correct. I hope it is, though. What's interesting about this, it is called a lake of fire. A lake compared to a sea or ocean is rather small in comparison. Why not a sea of fire instead? After all, doesn't the biggest majority of mankind end up in the LOF according to most Christians? Therefore, a sea of fire would make more sense than a lake of fire, in that case.

 

[ewq1938]

That is my view as well. I don't know for 100% certain if this view is correct. I hope it is, though. What's interesting about this, it is called a lake of fire. A lake compared to a sea or ocean is rather small in comparison. Why not a sea of fire instead? After all, doesn't the biggest majority of mankind end up in the LOF according to most Christians? Therefore, a sea of fire would make more sense than a lake of fire, in that case.

The size of it isn't important. It consumes all that enters it. It isn't actually a lake anyways.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Phoneman777]

If only everyone would appeal to the scriptures more, as they do.

The greatest biblical evidence that this "place" called hades exists and is populated by souls who are both self-aware and aware of their surroundings, consists in the fact that Jesus descended into sheol/hades (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27, 31),

where He proclaimed or heralded (Greek: kērýssō) the gospel to certain souls who were imprisoned there (1 Peter 3:18-20).​

Claim 1: An appeal to the Scripture, namely Genesis 2:7 KJV, shows that - just as light comes into existence and ceases to exist as the union/disunion of the bulb and electric current - so the Living Soul comes into existence and ceases to exist at the union/disunion of the Body and the Breath of Life:

Bulb + Electricity = Light comes into existence
Bulb - Electricity = LIGHT CEASES TO EXIST

Body + Breath = Living Soul comes into existence
Body - Breath = LIVING SOUL CEASES TO EXIST

Claim 2: As for Acts 2:27/Psalms 16:10, "hades" means "place of the dead" or "grave" - we don't bury the dead in a subterranean chamber in the Earth. God did not leave Jesus left in the grave - He was resurrected.

Claim 3: As for 1 Peter 3:18-20, the "prison" to which Peter refers is the "prison house of sin" in which the Antediluvians were slaves to sin and the spirit of Jesus preached to them through Noah, but because "My Spirit shall not always strive with man" eventually the Flood came.

There are those who believe that when the human body dies, the soul dies with the body

The Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath. When the Breath returns to God and the Body begins to rot, the Living Soul is no more - until the one or the other of the two resurrections.

The many examples where sheol / hades is spoken of as the abode of the dead (or the abode of departed souls or spirits) implies that sheol / hades is a very real, rather than a mythical "place"​

There is not one single example of consciousness in death - to the contrary, the Scriptures plainly tell us the dead know nothing, feel nothing, remember nothing, plan nothing, perceive nothing, say nothing, hear nothing, praise nothing, and have nothing to do with anything that is under the Sun.

- and if sheol / hades exists, it has a "population" (because it's the population of sheol / hades that causes it to exist), and if it has a population,​

The "place of the dead" is population of bones, nothing more. Inspect any grave you want to confirm.

then it means that the soul, or at least the self-awareness of the person, continues after physical death.​

"The dead know not anything...there is no work nor device nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave whither thou goest". - Solomon

If this were not the case, then death and hades "delivering up the dead in them" to face judgement (Revelation 20:13) would not make sense.​

The dead are "delivered up" to face judgment in the Resurrection of the Damned when God will once again unite His Breath of Life with a Body for every wicked person likely comprised of whatever they had before they died so that they can stand in Judgment and then be cast into the LOF.

You can't have a "Second Death" without a "Second Life" which is the purpose of the Resurrection of the Damned - to bring the wicked back to life and "deliver them up" to judgment.

In the Revelation, the name of Jesus is said to be both known and praised under the earth:​

"And I heard every creature which is in the Heaven and on the earth,
and under the earth, and those that are in the sea,
and all who are in them, saying,
Blessing and honor and glory and power be
to Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb forever and ever."
(Revelation 5:13).​

Were there not millions of Christian slaves forced to row Roman ships "in the sea" and forced to work deep in Roman mines "under the Earth" who praised Jesus that He is worthy? Look, we can't substantiate a doctrine on the uninterpreted passages of the most symbolic book in Scripture. We need to stick to the PLAIN WORDS of Scripture - some of which I've already shared - which plainly say there is no consciousness in death.

In ancient Greek mythology haides​

So, now we're going to allow SATANIC mythology to interpret Scripture?

"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything". - Ecc. 9:5 KJV

Hades and death, it seems, are two sides of the same coin:​

No they aren't. Death is death and hades is where bodies are buried - both will eventually cease to occur.

Paul tells us that death is the last enemy to be destroyed (1 Corinthians 15:26), and when this comes to pass, it will obviously render sheol/hades empty.​

True, but this is no proof for consciousness in death, but only that death and graveyards will cease to be.

In Revelation 20:13-15 Jesus seems to be making a clear distinction between hades on one hand, and the lake of fire and brimstone on the other, where like gehenna, the lake of fire and brimstone is a place of destruction.​

Yes, SINNERS are the cause of death and the need to dig graves so when resurrected SINNERS are cast into the LOF so is death and gravedigging along with them. Again, this is no proof for consciousness in death.

In the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, the word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction which is consistent throughout the New Testament between the body and the soul.

Soma: The body.
Sarx: The flesh.
psychḗ: The soul.
Pneuma: Spirit.

The Psyche comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Soma and the Pneuma of God, which is exactly what is said in Genesis 2:7 KJV.

So indeed when they appeal to Jesus' parable about Lazarus and the rich man, they are appealing to scripture, which they should do. We should all appeal to scripture - and nothing else - for our doctrine.

Wrong - when they appeal to Luke 16 for "proof" that the dead are conscious, they only thing they produce is 14 irresolvable Scriptural contradictions, one of the most glaring is that the "disembodied souls" of Abraham, Lazarus, and the Rich Man somehow have eyes, tongues, fingers, bosoms, etc.

(It's a parable, not a literal story)

 

[Zao is life]

Claim 1: An appeal to the Scripture, namely Genesis 2:7 KJV, shows that - just as light comes into existence and ceases to exist as the union/disunion of the bulb and electric current - so the Living Soul comes into existence and ceases to exist at the union/disunion of the Body and the Breath of Life:

Bulb + Electricity = Light comes into existence
Bulb - Electricity = LIGHT CEASES TO EXIST

Body + Breath = Living Soul comes into existence
Body - Breath = LIVING SOUL CEASES TO EXIST

Where does it say the above in the Bible?

Claim 2: As for Acts 2:27/Psalms 16:10, "hades" means "place of the dead" or "grave" - we don't bury the dead in a subterranean chamber in the Earth. God did not leave Jesus left in the grave - He was resurrected.

Leave your light bulbs in their places and debate from scripture.

Where were the souls who are said to have been in hades who heard the gospel preached to them by Jesus in hades?

Christians following the death of our bodies:

"For to me to live [záō] is Christ, and to die [apothnesko] is gain. But if I live [záō] in the flesh [sarx], this is the fruit of my labor. Yet I do not know what I shall choose. For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more needful for you." (Philippians 1:20-24).

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our dwelling-place out of Heaven; if indeed in being clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tabernacle groan, being burdened; inasmuch as we do not wish to be unclothed, but to be clothed, so that the mortal might be swallowed up by the life.

And He who has worked in us for this same thing is God, who also is giving to us the earnest (guarantee) of the (Holy) Spirit. Then being always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord;

for we walk by faith, not by sight; then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord. Therefore we are also laboring to be well-pleasing to Him, whether at home or away from home." (2 Corinthians 5:1-9).

The rest:

Matthew 16:18
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."

Acts 2:31
"David by foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his body experience decay."

Revelation 1:17-18
"Do not fear, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of death."

1 Corinthians 15:55
"O death, where is your sting? O grave (hades), where is your victory?"

Revelation 6:8
"And I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him sitting on it was Death, and hades followed with him. And authority was given to them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with the sword and with hunger and with death and by the beasts of the earth."

Revelation 20:13-14
"And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hades delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works. And death and hades were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death."

Proverbs 23:14
"Do not withhold correction from a boy, for if you beat him with the rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with the rod, and shall deliver his soul [nephesh, psychḗ] from sheol [hades]".

Psalms 86:12-13
"I confess Thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart, And I honour Thy name to the age. For Thy kindness is great toward me, And Thou hast delivered my soul [Hebrew nephesh] from the lowest Sheol."

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body [sōma], but are not able to kill the soul [psychḗ]. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul [psychḗ] and body [sōma] in géenna."

Jesus used gehenna as a symbol for a place of everlasting destruction, where some souls will wind up (only gehenna was used by Jesus as a symbol for what has developed into the concept of "hell" today).

It equates to the 2nd death | the lake of fire written about in the Revelation (Mat.5:22, 29 & 30 | Mark 9:43, 45 & 47; Mat.10:28; Mat.18:9; Mat.23:15 & 33; Luke 12:5; James 3:6).

Claim 3: As for 1 Peter 3:18-20, the "prison" to which Peter refers is the "prison house of sin" in which the Antediluvians were slaves to sin and the spirit of Jesus preached to them through Noah, but because "My Spirit shall not always strive with man" eventually the Flood came.

The Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath. When the Breath returns to God and the Body begins to rot, the Living Soul is no more - until the one or the other of the two resurrections.

The Scriptures plainly tell us the dead know nothing, feel nothing, remember nothing, plan nothing, perceive nothing, say nothing, hear nothing, praise nothing, and have nothing to do with anything that is under the Sun.

Solomon is not saying there is no existence for the soul after death:

The "place of the dead" is population of bones, nothing more. Inspect any grave you want to confirm.

"The dead know not anything...there is no work nor device nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave whither thou goest". - Solomon

Psalm 6:5
"For no one remembers you in the realm of death, In Sheol who gives you thanks?"

Does not say there are no souls in sheol/hades. It says in sheol/hades no one remembers God or gives Him thanks.

Eccelsiaistes 9:10
"Whatever you find to do with your hands, do it with all your might, because there is neither work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in sheol (hades), the place where you will eventually go."

How can it be the place Solomon says all will eventually go if there is no one to go there because there are no souls that exist after death?

Explain what this "hades" state is that scripture repeatedly mentions.

John 5:28
"Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves (tombs) shall hear His voice, and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation."

According to you, the above is not possible, since there is no soul after death.

But Jesus is fully Man just as He is fully God and He was comprised not only of body and soul, but of body, soul and spirit. The spirit is of God and the soul is that which receives the breath of life from God. Yet the soul of Jesus went to hades and while He was in hades He was quickened by the Holy Spirit.

His soul experienced the quickening by the Holy Spirit - in hades.

And Jesus was fully Man when He died. The last Adam.

And He is fully God.

All I can say is put your light bulbs back in their places and derive your ideas from scripture, comparing scripture with scripture because so far all you have done is make statements expressing your opinions about this subject but without any real backup from scripture.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, after physical death our mortal body returns to the earth. When death of his mortal body came, Paul writes that he shall be present with the Lord.

No he didn't - he simply expressed his preference "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord".

That's because the spirit (breath of life) of man returns to God who gave it after our mortal body dies. (Ecc 12:7)

Can you return to the Moon? You can only "return" to places you've already been. The Spirit, not us, returns.

Why would Paul long to be present with the Lord in heaven if death of his mortal body meant he would have no life at all?

That's like asking "why would a man long to be employed if losing his job meant he would end up broke?" The answer is self-evident.

Which as you say shall be when Christ comes again, bringing with Him the spiritual body of believers alive with Him in heaven after physical death.

Listen to me very closely:

"Bring with Him" can't mean "bring the spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" - it can only refer to "bring forth from the tomb" or "bring back to heaven with Him" for two reasons, one simple and the other a bit more involved:

1) verses 13-18 contextually refers to the "resurrection" from death to life - not a "celestial road trip". The movement of the saints is metamorphic, not geographic.

2) verses 13-18 form a "Greek Chiasm" with verse 14 as an "ABAB Alternate Rhyme" mirrored with verse 16:

Verse 14:
(A) For if we believe that Jesus died (death)
(B) and rose again (resurrection)
(A) so them also which sleep in Jesus (death)
(B) will God bring with Him. (resurrection)

Verse 16:
...and the dead in Christ (death)
shall rise first" (resurrection)

Making "bring with Him" refer to "bring spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" destroys both the Chiasm and the Alternate structure of verse 14. Literary structure (chiasm, chiasmus) of each pericopes of First Epistle to the Thessalonians

The context below shows us Paul believed that he would be present with the Lord when his mortal body of flesh died.

Paul didn't expect to be present until the Second Coming "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" by putting on his "eternal house" that "morality might be swallowed up of life".

Then he would be clothed with a house which is from heaven, which would be a celestial/heavenly body, like Christ, and as are the angels of God in heaven, a spiritual body of believers not naked but clothed with our house from above.

If by "then" you mean the Second Coming, yes...but I don't think you do.

While it's true Paul also looked forward to the day when his mortal body would be physically resurrected immortal, but in the interim he would be content to be present with the Lord clothed with a house/tabernacle/spiritual body that is of heaven through the Spirit in us.

Sorry, but you're introducing a "third" category of body of which Paul makes no mention. He identifies only 2 types of bodies, the "mortal" and the "eternal in the heavens" resurrection body (not some "interim body") - because Paul says it's "at the last trump" when he puts on "immortality" and "mortality" is "swallowed up of life".

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed

What's he mean by "unclothed" and why did he not want that? He dang sure didn't mean "spiritual nakedness" because that would be the stupidest thing he could ever say.

He means "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection". It's the only thing that makes sense. Paul is saying, Hey guys, this life sucks, but we don't want to find relief from it by RIP lying in the grave waiting like Job for resurrection morning - no, we want that relief to come by immediately being with Jesus in our resurrection body".

Most Christians on Sunday would rather be "absent from the church pew and present at the Cracker Barrel" - but we know we still have to fight the traffic to get there, as Paul the dead have to lie dead in the grave and wait like Job for resurrection morning.

Philippians 3:20-21 (KJV) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Yes, it's at the Second Coming when we put on our "eternal house".

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

See? Again, Paul says there's only TWO kinds of bodies: the "natural" (mortal body) and the "spiritual" (resurrection body) - not three, as you suggest by your idea of a "spiritual interim body" that is somehow "eternal" yet "temporarily" worn which makes no sense.

1 Corinthians 15:46-49 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

ditto

Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

We get out inheritance at the "day of redemption" which is the Second Coming, not when we die.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is a red herring fallacy to distract away from the actual subject about whether the dead are unconscious in the ground, or conscious in heaven.

You can't claim the seven headed, ten horn beast is symbolic over here, but then claim the "souls under the altar crying out" (which is symbolism for martyred Christians in the sight of God which divine justice demands they be avenged) is literal over there.

Maybe you haven't you heard that Revelation is a highly symbolic book?
Maybe you haven't you heard Solomon say that "the dead know not anything"?
Maybe you haven't heard the Psalmist say the dead "go down into silence"?

 

[rebuilder 454]

No he didn't - he simply expressed his preference "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord".

Can you return to the Moon? You can only "return" to places you've already been. The Spirit, not us, returns.

That's like asking "why would a man long to be employed if losing his job meant he would end up broke?" The answer is self-evident.

Listen to me very closely:

"Bring with Him" can't mean "bring the spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" - it can only refer to "bring forth from the tomb" or "bring back to heaven with Him" for two reasons, one simple and the other a bit more involved:

1) verses 13-18 contextually refers to the "resurrection" from death to life - not a "celestial road trip". The movement of the saints is metamorphic, not geographic.

2) verses 13-18 form a "Greek Chiasm" with verse 14 as an "ABAB Alternate Rhyme" mirrored with verse 16:

Verse 14:
(A) For if we believe that Jesus died (death)
(B) and rose again (resurrection)
(A) so them also which sleep in Jesus (death)
(B) will God bring with Him. (resurrection)

Verse 16:
...and the dead in Christ (death)
shall rise first" (resurrection)

Making "bring with Him" refer to "bring spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" destroys both the Chiasm and the Alternate structure of verse 14. Literary structure (chiasm, chiasmus) of each pericopes of First Epistle to the Thessalonians

Paul didn't expect to be present until the Second Coming "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" by putting on his "eternal house" that "morality might be swallowed up of life".

If by "then" you mean the Second Coming, yes...but I don't think you do.

Sorry, but you're introducing a "third" category of body of which Paul makes no mention. He identifies only 2 types of bodies, the "mortal" and the "eternal in the heavens" resurrection body (not some "interim body") - because Paul says it's "at the last trump" when he puts on "immortality" and "mortality" is "swallowed up of life".

What's he mean by "unclothed" and why did he not want that? He dang sure didn't mean "spiritual nakedness" because that would be the stupidest thing he could ever say.

He means "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection". It's the only thing that makes sense. Paul is saying, Hey guys, this life sucks, but we don't want to find relief from it by RIP lying in the grave waiting like Job for resurrection morning - no, we want that relief to come by immediately being with Jesus in our resurrection body".

Most Christians on Sunday would rather be "absent from the church pew and present at the Cracker Barrel" - but we know we still have to fight the traffic to get there, as Paul the dead have to lie dead in the grave and wait like Job for resurrection morning.

Yes, it's at the Second Coming when we put on our "eternal house".

See? Again, Paul says there's only TWO kinds of bodies: the "natural" (mortal body) and the "spiritual" (resurrection body) - not three, as you suggest by your idea of a "spiritual interim body" that is somehow "eternal" yet "temporarily" worn which makes no sense.

ditto

We get out inheritance at the "day of redemption" which is the Second Coming, not when we die.

You lack understanding, so you reframe the bible to suit your assumptions

 

[rwb]

Can you return to the Moon? You can only "return" to places you've already been. The Spirit, not us, returns.

Which is why our spirit (breath of life) returns to God, because our breath of life (spirit) comes from God!

That's like asking "why would a man long to be employed if losing his job meant he would end up broke?" The answer is self-evident.

It would be pretty stupid for Paul to long to be with the Lord after his body has died if Paul is altogether without life! The answer is indeed self-evident, Paul longed to be ALIVE with the Lord after his body ceased to have life, and he had assurance from the Lord that he would be, because death of the physical body cannot take the ETERNAL/EVERLASTING life believers have through the Spirit of Christ within them.

Listen to me very closely:

"Bring with Him" can't mean "bring the spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" - it can only refer to "bring forth from the tomb" or "bring back to heaven with Him" for two reasons, one simple and the other a bit more involved:

1) verses 13-18 contextually refers to the "resurrection" from death to life - not a "celestial road trip". The movement of the saints is metamorphic, not geographic.

2) verses 13-18 form a "Greek Chiasm" with verse 14 as an "ABAB Alternate Rhyme" mirrored with verse 16:

Verse 14:
(A) For if we believe that Jesus died (death)
(B) and rose again (resurrection)
(A) so them also which sleep in Jesus (death)
(B) will God bring with Him. (resurrection)

Verse 16:
...and the dead in Christ (death)
shall rise first" (resurrection)

Making "bring with Him" refer to "bring spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" destroys both the Chiasm and the Alternate structure of verse 14. Literary structure (chiasm, chiasmus) of each pericopes of First Epistle to the Thessalonians

Listen to me very carefully:

Our spirit that is our breath of life comes from heaven, after physical death returns to heaven, and when our physical body is resurrected in an hour coming, when the last trumpet begins to sound, Christ will return again WITH the spiritual body of believers from heaven that our resurrected mortal bodies shall again have physical, albeit now IMMORTAL life forever. Without the breath of life (spirit) man cannot be a complete 'living soul'.

Paul didn't expect to be present until the Second Coming "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" by putting on his "eternal house" that "morality might be swallowed up of life".

It's true Paul desired to be a complete living soul again after his mortal body is resurrected and changed to immortal. But he was also confident that death of his physical mortal body would not prevent him from being spiritually alive after physical death because the life we have through the Spirit of Christ NEVER dies! That's why Christ tells us that whoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die!

If by "then" you mean the Second Coming, yes...but I don't think you do.

Our dwelling place in heaven is a spiritual habitation where flesh & blood nor corruption can dwell. We will not be a spiritual house/body as we are in heaven after our body had died. Then we will be a physical body that is again of the dust of the earth, with our spirit that returns with Christ to make us once again a complete "living soul."

Sorry, but you're introducing a "third" category of body of which Paul makes no mention. He identifies only 2 types of bodies, the "mortal" and the "eternal in the heavens" resurrection body (not some "interim body") - because Paul says it's "at the last trump" when he puts on "immortality" and "mortality" is "swallowed up of life".

Do I need to quote Paul's words for you again? He writes that when our body is sown in death, we shall be raised a "spiritual body"! Why? Because Paul writes there is a natural body of the earth, like that of the first Adam, and there is also a spiritual body that is from heaven, like that of Christ that shall be after our physical body is dead.

What's he mean by "unclothed" and why did he not want that? He dang sure didn't mean "spiritual nakedness" because that would be the stupidest thing he could ever say.

He means "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection". It's the only thing that makes sense. Paul is saying, Hey guys, this life sucks, but we don't want to find relief from it by RIP lying in the grave waiting like Job for resurrection morning - no, we want that relief to come by immediately being with Jesus in our resurrection body".

Most Christians on Sunday would rather be "absent from the church pew and present at the Cracker Barrel" - but we know we still have to fight the traffic to get there, as Paul the dead have to lie dead in the grave and wait like Job for resurrection morning.

Clearly, Paul longed to be rid of his natural body destined to grow old, sick and die! Paul did not consider himself as being naked without his mortal flesh. In fact he knew that he would not be naked but rather clothed is a celestial/heavenly spiritual body without mortal human form and weaknesses. Just as Paul was confident that when Christ comes again to resurrect and change his physical body that he would once again be complete/whole with physical body + spirit (breath of life) = living soul.

Yes, it's at the Second Coming when we put on our "eternal house".

You seem a little confused about the difference between 'eternal' and 'immortal'? We HAVE NOW, if we have been born again ETERNAL LIFE/EVERLASTING spiritual life through Christ's Spirit within us. We don't have to wait for eternal life for our physical body to be resurrected to immortality to have eternal spiritual life. That's why when our body dies our spirit (breath of life) continues to have life after our mortal body dies and returns to dust. The spirit in mankind, through Christ's Spirit is ETERNAL, but IMMORTAL LIFE shall be of our physical body when we are physically resurrected and changed at Christ's second coming.

See? Again, Paul says there's only TWO kinds of bodies: the "natural" (mortal body) and the "spiritual" (resurrection body) - not three, as you suggest by your idea of a "spiritual interim body" that is somehow "eternal" yet "temporarily" worn which makes no sense.

Our physical body is NOT resurrected a "spiritual body"! Our body shall be physically resurrected IMMORTAL with the breath of life (spirit) and together we will be a complete 'living soul'. What would a 'spiritual' body to dwell on the new earth even be? A spiritual body is not for life on earth, it's for life in heaven. It is the spirit that is the breath of life that shall give IMMORTAL life to our resurrected body of flesh & bone. We don't become spiritual, we will again be as man was created to be body + spirit = living soul. Only then we shall never again die, or grow sick or old, we shall be complete with Christ on the new earth forever.

Paul's pretty clear, when our body is dead and buried THEN at that moment of death we are raised a spiritual body of believers in heaven where we will be with the Lord to wait for the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven to be complete and time for this earth shall be no longer.

We get out inheritance at the "day of redemption" which is the Second Coming, not when we die.

This is where your confusion comes, heaven is not our inheritance, not our everlasting abode, the new earth is. Since we already possess ETERNAL/EVERLASTING life through Christ's Spirit within us, we go a spiritual body of believers to heaven still living soul, but without physical form to wait for the last Gentile to come into the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven by grace through faith when they are born again of the Spirit.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No he didn't - he simply expressed his preference "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord".

Can you return to the Moon? You can only "return" to places you've already been. The Spirit, not us, returns.

That's like asking "why would a man long to be employed if losing his job meant he would end up broke?" The answer is self-evident.

Listen to me very closely:

"Bring with Him" can't mean "bring the spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" - it can only refer to "bring forth from the tomb" or "bring back to heaven with Him" for two reasons, one simple and the other a bit more involved:

1) verses 13-18 contextually refers to the "resurrection" from death to life - not a "celestial road trip". The movement of the saints is metamorphic, not geographic.

2) verses 13-18 form a "Greek Chiasm" with verse 14 as an "ABAB Alternate Rhyme" mirrored with verse 16:

Verse 14:
(A) For if we believe that Jesus died (death)
(B) and rose again (resurrection)
(A) so them also which sleep in Jesus (death)
(B) will God bring with Him. (resurrection)

Verse 16:
...and the dead in Christ (death)
shall rise first" (resurrection)

Making "bring with Him" refer to "bring spiritual body of believers from heaven back to Earth with Him" destroys both the Chiasm and the Alternate structure of verse 14. Literary structure (chiasm, chiasmus) of each pericopes of First Epistle to the Thessalonians

Paul didn't expect to be present until the Second Coming "at the last trump" when "this mortal shall put on immortality" by putting on his "eternal house" that "morality might be swallowed up of life".

If by "then" you mean the Second Coming, yes...but I don't think you do.

Sorry, but you're introducing a "third" category of body of which Paul makes no mention. He identifies only 2 types of bodies, the "mortal" and the "eternal in the heavens" resurrection body (not some "interim body") - because Paul says it's "at the last trump" when he puts on "immortality" and "mortality" is "swallowed up of life".

What's he mean by "unclothed" and why did he not want that? He dang sure didn't mean "spiritual nakedness" because that would be the stupidest thing he could ever say.

He means "naked" and "unclothed" without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection". It's the only thing that makes sense. Paul is saying, Hey guys, this life sucks, but we don't want to find relief from it by RIP lying in the grave waiting like Job for resurrection morning - no, we want that relief to come by immediately being with Jesus in our resurrection body".

Most Christians on Sunday would rather be "absent from the church pew and present at the Cracker Barrel" - but we know we still have to fight the traffic to get there, as Paul the dead have to lie dead in the grave and wait like Job for resurrection morning.

Yes, it's at the Second Coming when we put on our "eternal house".

See? Again, Paul says there's only TWO kinds of bodies: the "natural" (mortal body) and the "spiritual" (resurrection body) - not three, as you suggest by your idea of a "spiritual interim body" that is somehow "eternal" yet "temporarily" worn which makes no sense.

ditto

We get out inheritance at the "day of redemption" which is the Second Coming, not when we die.

You lack understanding, so you reframe the bible to suit your assumptions

 

[Phoneman777]

That is my view as well. I don't know for 100% certain if this view is correct. I hope it is, though. What's interesting about this, it is called a lake of fire. A lake compared to a sea or ocean is rather small in comparison. Why not a sea of fire instead? After all, doesn't the biggest majority of mankind end up in the LOF according to most Christians? Therefore, a sea of fire would make more sense than a lake of fire, in that case.

Oh, you can bet Annihilation is real and Biblical and requires none of the convoluted reasoning employed by the Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment crowd.

As for the LOF, I never really thought about it. My guess is that it's called a "lake" because the wicked of all ages will all be concentrated into one geographical location. If that number is 25 billion, they could all fit in an area of only about 1,000 square miles. Some of the biggest lakes in the world are over 100,000 sq miles.

 

[Phoneman777]

You lack understanding, so you reframe the bible to suit your assumptions

Those who oppose my reasoning are the ones who lack understanding.

"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything".

 

[rwb]

Those who oppose my reasoning are the ones who lack understanding.

"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything".

Yes all flesh is mortal and destined to die! Which is why the eternal/everlasting spirit ALIVE through the Spirit of Christ returns to God a spiritual body/living soul after our mortal body breathes its last.

 

[ewq1938]

You can't claim the seven headed, ten horn beast is symbolic over here, but then claim the "souls under the altar crying out" (which is symbolism for martyred Christians in the sight of God which divine justice demands they be avenged) is literal over there.

So no book can have symbolic and literal language? lol

Maybe you haven't you heard that Revelation is a highly symbolic book?

Strawman fallacy.

Maybe you haven't you heard Solomon say that "the dead know not anything"?

He's speaking of dead bodies not the soul and spirit which remain alive and awake.

Maybe you haven't heard the Psalmist say the dead "go down into silence"?

Learn the difference between dead bodies and the souls of the dead.

 

[Hobie]

I agree with your questioning why the heavens and the earth would need to be destroyed. Especially because of the promises to Jesus, the Son of man, the Son of God, the last Adam, regarding Him reigning on the earth:

Psalm 8:3-9
"When I look at Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars which You have established; what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?

For You have made him a little lower than God; - (Hebrew: 'elohiym, see Genesis 1:26-27 Hebrews 1:3) - and have crowned him with glory and honor. You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet:

all sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field; the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, and all that pass through the paths of the seas. O Jehovah, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth!"

But now we see not yet [nŷn] all things having been put under him. Hebrews 2:8b

GOD'S PURPOSE

And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth. (Genesis 1:26)

But now we see not yet [nŷn] all things having been put under him. Hebrews 2:8b

Psalm 2:7-8
“I will declare the decree of the LORD. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession.”

But now we see not yet [nŷn] all things having been put under him. Hebrews 2:8b
​

I believe in a literal thousand years following the return of Christ - but I believe it's all about Him because He is the Son of Man, the last Adam, the Son of God and it is right for Him to reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

So the idea that the earth will be destroyed when Jesus returns robs God of His purpose and Christ of His Kingship, IMO.

And that's aside from the fact that I don't believe 2 Peter 3:10 is saying that the heavens and earth will be destroyed.​

Well the Wicked have to be destroyed, they will perish in the fire. You have to understand that for the 1000 years of the Millennium, the saints are in heaven, not wandering around on the earth...