"This Generation" declared by Jesus.

[Robert Gwin]

It is simply a matter of accurately considering what is written--that if we are talking "great tribulation"...then not leaving out the "all encompassing" tribulation that Jesus suffered, by comparison...nothing else even compares. Which, like it says (as it is written) "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be"--meaning that no other tribulation--no matter how "great" is actually included in what was said. The words and the exclusions do not leave any room for a finale event at the end of time. Period. Without a shadow of a doubt.

Now, I know that this is what most have always believed--but look at the whole of scripture: Jesus said things are not going to be what you expect, and the precedence is the failure of Israel, the natural branch...and then there is the [fact and certainty] of strong delusion, and the non-finale of the times of Noah.

Your "failure to see the correlation" is exactly why you should suspect the errors--just like it has been foretold. Such failure is predictable--classic.

As for your outlook on what has occurred--what foreshadowing do you think the destruction of the Temple might possibly represent made manifest during these end times? I tell you--it is the annihilation of the temple of His body--not by tribulation, not that which was born of water, but by fire, which is to say, by the Spirit!

As for extinction, all die...not all at once, but just as each came into the world--"each in his own order."

The same goes for the harvest of His chosen.

As for the signs--tribulations (wars, etc.) as it is written...they were excluded. The only sign is that of the times of Noah...which has now been prefaced with the sign of the rainbow--as a sign of the changing of destruction by water, to that of the Spirit, that consuming fire.


PS, Here...this is actually what the scriptures indicate: What THE END really looks like.

Obviously Jesus was not applying those words to himself sir, we have came to the end of this discussion. I would imagine that you are in for a big surprise, of course maybe I am, only time will tell Scott.

 

[amadeus]

You are getting closer. Just remember, He said, “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me." John 14:19

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

 

[amadeus]

Peter was just saying that God is timeless...that in spite of the times laid out before men in His story (history), the times do not apply the same to the things of God--which include all the things of salvation. Salvation is of God.

The very concept of "time" messes with people's minds but not with God's!

"For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." I Cor 2:16

Who is included in that "we"?

How close are we? How close can we be?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[dev553344]

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Matthew 24:34

Of course there is more, in fact all of Matthew 24 is referred to in verse 34.​

This issue that has now been going on for two millennia (50-80 generations) is that the signs Jesus gave have been carried forward for lack of those things previously being seen. So--for lack of sight, we have assumed "this generation" of the coming of the Son of Man is still future. Lack of sight. Let me say that again: For lack of sight, we have taken an assumptive position about the end of all things. And hey, why not, after all if time goes on, we must be right to assume--right?

One would think so--no, scratch that--nearly everyone thinks so. In fact, if you said anything different to your friends, family, pastor, or priest...you'd likely be labeled a heretic. And that is how it has been for 2,000 years.

But I would argue--not because I need to or because I am suggesting my opinion is better than all the others--but because an argument is what one is liable to get. Anyway--not my opinion--but this is what Jesus spoke of, saying, "Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." This is these many generations "trampling" on the truth for lack of understanding.

Go figure. Which is why He finished the above description, saying, "the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." Meaning, that what most have expected--is not true.

But how shall I even begin to tell you what is true? Who will believe it?

I'm not sure, but I am sure that some of the fulfillment of those prophecies probably already happened and people didn't record it. So that we don't know they happened already.

 

[ScottA]

Obviously Jesus was not applying those words to himself sir, we have came to the end of this discussion. I would imagine that you are in for a big surprise, of course maybe I am, only time will tell Scott.

I am happy to end the conversation or continue it...but, no, what is obvious, is that it is the Father who applied those words to Jesus, and Jesus who foretold it.

That cup included all tribulation, that of the whole world and all of history, making it the greatest tribulation that shall ever be. There remains no other tribulation to hang a future tribulation finale on. Nothing greater.

 

[ScottA]

I'm not sure, but I am sure that some of the fulfillment of those prophecies probably already happened and people didn't record it. So that we don't know they happened already.

Yes, and this is done, because most look for the things to be fulfilled in the way that men think, rather than the way that God has so often done differently than they would expect....like bringing eternal life and victory by death on a cross. Such logic escapes them.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I am happy to end the conversation or continue it...but, no, what is obvious, is that it is the Father who applied those words to Jesus, and Jesus who foretold it.

That cup included all tribulation, that of the whole world and all of history, making it the greatest tribulation that shall ever be. There remains no other tribulation to hang a future tribulation finale on. Nothing greater.

I truly believe you are in for one heck of a surprise Scott. Actually since most faiths believe we are so close to it's start, I had no idea there were some that believed it has already occurred, that is so new to me, I had never heard anyone believing that before.

 

[ScottA]

I truly believe you are in for one heck of a surprise Scott. Actually since most faiths believe we are so close to it's start, I had no idea there were some that believed it has already occurred, that is so new to me, I had never heard anyone believing that before.

That new crack in your view is according to the foretold coming of all truth which was only before revealed to His servants the prophets (The seal is now broken). Which is: that from the beginning all things unfolded until Christ, but now are being refolded. As one man unfolding became the father of all, all now become One...but only those who are His, unto Him. Just as in the beginning, in the world things increased, they now decrease. The world is passing away--not building up or increasing to end in a finale...but as in the days of Noah. The ship just sails into the sunset.

This is the gospel, not the delusion which the world has suffered.

Surprise? Yes...not what you expect, but just as He said, as it is also written.

 

[Robert Gwin]

That new crack in your view is according to the foretold coming of all truth which was only before revealed to His servants the prophets (The seal is now broken). Which is: that from the beginning all things unfolded until Christ, but now are being refolded. As one man unfolding became the father of all, all now become One...but only those who are His, unto Him. Just as in the beginning, in the world things increased, they now decrease. The world is passing away--not building up or increasing to end in a finale...but as in the days of Noah. The ship just sails into the sunset.

This is the gospel, not the delusion which the world has suffered.

Surprise? Yes...not what you expect, but just as He said, as it is also written.

Think of it this way Scott, you seen Jesus comparing the last days to Noah, as you have referred to it a couple of times, so where is the flood sir. You are correct that passage applies, and it is applying to the time period right now, people are taking no note. Most have no idea that Jesus is the now reigning King and that his return is on the horizon, they simply will be just as surprised upon his return, of course that too is prophesied.

 

[ScottA]

Think of it this way Scott, you seen Jesus comparing the last days to Noah, as you have referred to it a couple of times, so where is the flood sir. You are correct that passage applies, and it is applying to the time period right now, people are taking no note. Most have no idea that Jesus is the now reigning King and that his return is on the horizon, they simply will be just as surprised upon his return, of course that too is prophesied.

Hmmm...we might be getting somewhere. Great!

"Where is the flood?" God has given the answer:

Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.” Genesis 9:11

You will be punished by the Lord of hosts With thunder and earthquake and great noise, With storm and tempest And the flame of devouring fire. Isaiah 29:6

All the earth shall be devoured With the fire of My jealousy. Zephaniah 3:8

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11​

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hmmm...we might be getting somewhere. Great!

"Where is the flood?" God has given the answer:

Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.” Genesis 9:11

You will be punished by the Lord of hosts With thunder and earthquake and great noise, With storm and tempest And the flame of devouring fire. Isaiah 29:6

All the earth shall be devoured With the fire of My jealousy. Zephaniah 3:8

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11​

I was speaking figuratively Scott, but as you realize that "fire" has not came. I might mention it is yet future. Keep in mind as well that the literal earth will not be destroyed any more than it was in the flood, the earth that will be is those humans that will be removed from the earth. Ecc 1:4

 

[ScottA]

I was speaking figuratively Scott, but as you realize that "fire" has not came. I might mention it is yet future. Keep in mind as well that the literal earth will not be destroyed any more than it was in the flood, the earth that will be is those humans that will be removed from the earth. Ecc 1:4

Ooooh, it is as you have portrayed all along

You speak "figuratively", but when God does, you take it literally?

But, no, it is not literally, but the words speak of God whom is spirit, whom is "a consuming fire." "Fire" is synonymous with "spirit." That is why I quoted the verses.

In light of such elementary errors...perhaps we should start over.

 

[Jay Ross]

In light of such elementary errors...perhaps we should start over.

Ya? Who is in error? If the error is on both sides, then the error will not be corrected, no matter how hard the both of you work at it.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Ooooh, it is as you have portrayed all along

You speak "figuratively", but when God does, you take it literally?

But, no, it is not literally, but the words speak of God whom is spirit, whom is "a consuming fire." "Fire" is synonymous with "spirit." That is why I quoted the verses.

In light of such elementary errors...perhaps we should start over.

I don't see the need Scott, I believe it is a topic we will not agree on. I frankly do not understand how you can believe it, but only time alone will reveal the truth of the matter. I might ask what faith you belong to so I can research their beliefs on the tribulation as I have never heard of anyone believing the great tribulation has already happened. I am honestly thinking you do not understand your faith's teaching on that. My apologies for bluntly saying that, but I simply have not seen any faith that teaches that.

 

[ScottA]

Ya? Who is in error? If the error is on both sides, then the error will not be corrected, no matter how hard the both of you work at it.

That would be a true statement in a lot of cases. But in this case, I was referring to the error of not knowing that "God is a consuming fire" and spirit, and that when He refers to fire, He is more times than not speaking of that consuming fire of the Spirit. In the scriptures "fire" is very often synonymous with "spirit." Which is how the earth and all its elements are destroyed rather than by water as in the days of Noah.

 

[ScottA]

I don't see the need Scott, I believe it is a topic we will not agree on. I frankly do not understand how you can believe it, but only time alone will reveal the truth of the matter. I might ask what faith you belong to so I can research their beliefs on the tribulation as I have never heard of anyone believing the great tribulation has already happened. I am honestly thinking you do not understand your faith's teaching on that. My apologies for bluntly saying that, but I simply have not seen any faith that teaches that.

That's fine...I mean if you want to wait until time has revealed what I have been saying, so shall it be. But this was to be that time, and now you have passed it off as a denominational issue or the teachings of men--which it is not. My only teaching is from God.

I'm cool with blunt.

 

[Robert Gwin]

That's fine...I mean if you want to wait until time has revealed what I have been saying, so shall it be. But this was to be that time, and now you have passed it off as a denominational issue or the teachings of men--which it is not. My only teaching is from God.

I'm cool with blunt.

From the time of the acceptance of the first covenant Scott, Jehovah does not deal with individuals. I am not able to discern if you believe we are living in the last days of this system, but if you believe we are, then you likely believe Isa 2:2,3 is being fulfilled now. Jehovah's mountain does exist, and people are flocking to it to be instructed in His ways, and they do walk in His paths. You are responsible to recognize His people and go with them sir Zech 8:23

 

[ScottA]

From the time of the acceptance of the first covenant Scott, Jehovah does not deal with individuals. I am not able to discern if you believe we are living in the last days of this system, but if you believe we are, then you likely believe Isa 2:2,3 is being fulfilled now. Jehovah's mountain does exist, and people are flocking to it to be instructed in His ways, and they do walk in His paths. You are responsible to recognize His people and go with them sir Zech 8:23

Not exactly sure what your point is, but at least part of that does not reconcile:

1 Corinthians 15:23
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.​

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not exactly sure what your point is, but at least part of that does not reconcile:

1 Corinthians 15:23
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.​

Christ was the first risen to immortality, after his enthronement sometime the first resurrection occurred Rev 20:6; and like your verse finishes, and mentioned at 1 Thes 4:17 as well those who remain to his coming will meet him in the air. What many call the rapture sir. Your passage is referring to the accumulation of those of the covenant, Christ's brothers.

 

[ScottA]

Christ was the first risen to immortality, after his enthronement sometime the first resurrection occurred Rev 20:6; and like your verse finishes, and mentioned at 1 Thes 4:17 as well those who remain to his coming will meet him in the air. What many call the rapture sir. Your passage is referring to the accumulation of those of the covenant, Christ's brothers.

That's all good, but I'm still not sure what you are getting at or why you mention it regarding "this generation", "now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation", "I am coming quickly" or "the things which must shortly take place" 2,000 years ago.