"This Generation" declared by Jesus.

[VictoryinJesus]

The abomination foretold by Daniel, sighted by Jesus, was His own countrymen (Israel) standing in the temple calling for the crucifixion of the Lamb of God, and His body being turned over to the gentiles (the church) to be trampled

“The abomination foretold by Daniel, sighted Jesus standing in the temple calling for the crucifixion of the Lamb of God…” makes me think of Stephen as they stoned Stephen and laid the coats at Saul/Paul’s’ feet. Stephen saw heaven open and the Lord standing …and what riled them up was Stephen telling them God resides not in temples made with hands.

“His body turned over to the gentiles”
Makes me think of “His body” the Church…trampled by those falsely claiming they are Him. To me it lines up with His standing on the last day and crying out “If any thirst let them come, and drink” to clarify why His offer to any who thirst, to come and drink (for me connects): is His body pours out Living water…where if your enemy is thirsty give him water, if your enemy hungers give him bread.

wherein are many falsely claim they are Him (God). It is also the time of great tribulation--which no event in the history of the world can be greater than it all being put upon Christ...which it was.

The point is--there can be no greater abomination or tribulation than that suffered by Christ.

point is we all speak of the Love of Christ so did His suffering end thousands of years ago, or is it ongoing that “He is long suffering that all might come”. Point is does He not suffer just as much and on-going when His own flesh, His body, that He nurtures and cares for suffers shame, ridicule, rejection …being trampled under foot. You said “there can be no greater abomination or tribulation than that suffered by Christ.”

again it baffles me that there are so many rejections to this because the next time we get our rear-ends beaten up by this world, suffering some hardship or confusion or doubt …we will be saying how much the Lord loves and sees it, how much He hasn’t forgotten or abandoned us in our pain. how His love for us is greater than anything and can not be broken. Yet, we are arguing a greater Love God has, than that Love for people.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus' body was not turned over to the Gentiles! Not one word in the Bible suggests that.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
?
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The fact that the wheat and tares are still growing together in these last days does not mean the harvest has not already begun:

Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36 And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.” John 4:35-38
​

This is what Paul explained as each coming "But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming." 1 Corinthians 15:23

He comes to each (to harvest) by knocking:

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. Revelation 3:20​

We definitely believe there is wheat, and there is weeds, and they both exist at this time. Since I believe it is the last days, then I believe God is gathering His people together in His house as Isa 2:2,3 indicates. The harvest however is spoken of this way sir:
(Matthew 13:30) . . .Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’”

Since the weeds have not been burnt, the harvest has yet to begin. Based on that I believe we are still in the growing together period, we believe the harvest will begin during the great tribulation, and finish with the preservation of the Wheat through the battle of Armageddon.

 

[ScottA]

We definitely believe there is wheat, and there is weeds, and they both exist at this time. Since I believe it is the last days, then I believe God is gathering His people together in His house as Isa 2:2,3 indicates. The harvest however is spoken of this way sir:
(Matthew 13:30) . . .Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’”

Since the weeds have not been burnt, the harvest has yet to begin. Based on that I believe we are still in the growing together period, we believe the harvest will begin during the great tribulation, and finish with the preservation of the Wheat through the battle of Armageddon.

Ah, but the weeds burn daily as light is divided from the darkness daily. And as Jesus said, the harvest was ready even then.

As for the great tribulation--that was then also (when you do not expect). For there is no greater tribulation than all tribulation, which has already come upon Christ. And take care not to say there is something greater--for if you do you deny that God has put it all upon Him.

The preservation of the wheat is the end. But do not forget that Christ is the End...and also the Beginning--all these things are in Him.

As for the northern armies--this is the gathering...and as the north is above, they come from above.

 

[n2thelight]

Okay.

• So...Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven. Luke 10:18 Check.

• Jesus went to the Father. John 16:16 Check.

• He said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Which He began to do "quickly" and "shortly" thereafter. Revelation 3:20 Revelation 22:20 Revelation 1:1 Revelation 22:6. Check.

• "Each in his own order." 1 Corinthians 15:23

Luke 10:18 "And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

This has yet to happen, no check, It happens here . Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Have you seen satan or his angels? Don't think so.

Jesus has returned to the Father , yet He has not returned .

Rev 3:20 is irrelevant to this discussion

Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. A-men'. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Has not happened.

And you didn't answer the question, when does He return ?

 

[n2thelight]

@ ScottA said: ↑
The abomination foretold by Daniel, sighted by Jesus, was His own countrymen (Israel) standing in the temple calling for the crucifixion of the Lamb of God, and His body being turned over to the gentiles (the church) to be trampled

Not that at all, do you know what scripture Christ quoted on the cross ?

The abomination is when satan stands in Jerusalem claiming to be Christ

Mark 13:14 "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it [he, who is Satan] ought not, (let Him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"

First understand that Judaea is the state that Jerusalem lies in. What takes place in the final days of this earth age, will originate out of Jerusalem and Judaea. We call that tiny state today "the nation of Israel". So first of all we must know what Daniel was talking about, and what this "abomination of desolation" that the world will see is all about.

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.' "

Daniel 9:27 says there will be a one week period of years, a seven year period, and in the middle of that period, the holy communion will stop. They will no longer take holy communion to Christ because they will think that Jesus Christ is already here. Then he continues on in the Hebrew, so lets look at what the Hebrew has to say about it.

"On the wings of abomination shall the desolator come in, and on the wing shall ye see the desolator." So the thing that we must pay attention to is the identity of the desolator. Satan is the desolator, and it is not the conditions of desolation, but a person, the devil who is Satan will be the desolator to cause the abomination. Satan is the false messiah, and when you see this desolator standing in Jerusalem and making the claim that he is God,

Future

 

[Robert Gwin]

Ah, but the weeds burn daily as light is divided from the darkness daily. And as Jesus said, the harvest was ready even then.

As for the great tribulation--that was then also (when you do not expect). For there is no greater tribulation than all tribulation, which has already come upon Christ. And take care not to say there is something greater--for if you do you deny that God has put it all upon Him.

The preservation of the wheat is the end. But do not forget that Christ is the End...and also the Beginning--all these things are in Him.

As for the northern armies--this is the gathering...and as the north is above, they come from above.

In a way you are correct Scott, the signs Jesus gave are twofold. Yes it was the greatest tribulation ever for those who did not obey Christ when Jerusalem was destroyed, but we believe it has a future fulfillment as well as the horses of Revelation 6 parallel the account, and it was penned about 25 yrs after Jerusalems destruction. Jesus also said that the world would be taken to the point of extinction which in no way would be the minor tribulation of the first century. Mat 24:22

So the great tribulation is for the yet future, and we do believe it is very near sir, Jesus told us to keep on the watch, and the scene of this world seems to indicate we are moving headlong into it sir.

 

[ScottA]

Luke 10:18 "And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

This has yet to happen,

There is no point in going on--Jesus said "beheld" is past tense...and you reject it.

Why should you hear it from me when you do not hear it from Him?

 

[ScottA]

In a way you are correct Scott, the signs Jesus gave are twofold. Yes it was the greatest tribulation ever for those who did not obey Christ when Jerusalem was destroyed, but we believe it has a future fulfillment as well as the horses of Revelation 6 parallel the account, and it was penned about 25 yrs after Jerusalems destruction. Jesus also said that the world would be taken to the point of extinction which in no way would be the minor tribulation of the first century. Mat 24:22

So the great tribulation is for the yet future, and we do believe it is very near sir, Jesus told us to keep on the watch, and the scene of this world seems to indicate we are moving headlong into it sir.

So, yes, but no? You are not hearing yourself.

How is it possible that there should come a greater tribulation than the greatest tribulation which is the greatest because it is all tribulation? It is not possible--because Jesus did not just suffer for those of that time, but for all time. In less you are denying that. Therefore, if there were more to come, great or small, it would not be all, but only a part. And if you pull that finger out of the dam of your doctrine, the dam will collapse.

So, no, the horses of Revelation 6 are not "parallel."

As for Jerusalem's destruction...that was the fulfillment of what Jesus predicted for that evil generation. But remember what He said: "But many who are first will be last, and the last first."...of whom He is the Last and the First. In other words, most would look at Jesus' death as being before the destruction of Jerusalem--but that is the timeline of men and the history of the world, not the kingdom. You are confusing them. He said it correctly: He was the Last of Israel, of that evil generation", but "many who were first would be last, and the last first."--the destruction had already occurred in Christ, and that evil generation was dead already.

So, no, the tribulation of the first century was not at all "minor."

As for your watch... ‘Look behind you, O Benjamin!’ Hosea 5:8

בנימין. Benjamin = "son of the right hand" (son of Christ)

 

[n2thelight]

There is no point in going on--Jesus said "beheld" is past tense...and you reject it.

Why should you hear it from me when you do not hear it from Him?

Think I showed you with scripture ,that which has happened shall happen again

Will leave you with the below

Luke 10:18 "And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

This now is a new subject that Jesus is teaching us. This is Jesus speaking to His followers and it is prophetic, and refers back to the time of the garden of Eden, and Satan's fall from the first earth age. It also applies to Revelation 12: 7-9, when when Michael will cast Satan out onto the earth, and his fallen angels will come with him. So in the word "fall" indicates that Satan will be here in person because he was kicked out of heaven, and not on his own accord. The plan is set in motion, and it will take place exactly as it is written. Satan came in the first place as a deceiver, to destroy the seed line that the Christ would come through. The second time he will come as the false Messiah, to deceive all the people of the earth. It will happen exactly as it was prophesied.

 

[n2thelight]

@ ScottA

Let's go here

What do you see from the below verses

Luke 4:17 "And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written,"

Luke 4:18 " "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"

Luke 4:19 "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me; because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek ; He hath send Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"

Isaiah 61:2 "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that morn;"

Luke 4:20 "And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him."

Luke 4:21 "And He began to say unto them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Isaiah 61:3 "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that He might be glorified."

 

[Robert Gwin]

So, yes, but no? You are not hearing yourself.

How is it possible that there should come a greater tribulation than the greatest tribulation which is the greatest because it is all tribulation? It is not possible--because Jesus did not just suffer for those of that time, but for all time. In less you are denying that. Therefore, if there were more to come, great or small, it would not be all, but only a part. And if you pull that finger out of the dam of your doctrine, the dam will collapse.

So, no, the horses of Revelation 6 are not "parallel."

As for Jerusalem's destruction...that was the fulfillment of what Jesus predicted for that evil generation. But remember what He said: "But many who are first will be last, and the last first."...of whom He is the Last and the First. In other words, most would look at Jesus' death as being before the destruction of Jerusalem--but that is the timeline of men and the history of the world, not the kingdom. You are confusing them. He said it correctly: He was the Last of Israel, of that evil generation", but "many who were first would be last, and the last first."--the destruction had already occurred in Christ, and that evil generation was dead already.

So, no, the tribulation of the first century was not at all "minor."

As for your watch... ‘Look behind you, O Benjamin!’ Hosea 5:8

בנימין. Benjamin = "son of the right hand" (son of Christ)

Jesus is enthroned as king White horse Mat 24:3
the other 3 horses Mat 24:7
Yes sir, those horses represent Jesus' enthronement, which comes with war, famine, and pestilence. The greatest tribulation is yet upon us, like I said, it will take us to the point of extinction, something that did not happen in 70 CE. Mat 24:22

 

[ScottA]

Think I showed you with scripture ,that which has happened shall happen again

Will leave you with the below

Luke 10:18 "And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

This now is a new subject that Jesus is teaching us. This is Jesus speaking to His followers and it is prophetic, and refers back to the time of the garden of Eden, and Satan's fall from the first earth age. It also applies to Revelation 12: 7-9, when when Michael will cast Satan out onto the earth, and his fallen angels will come with him. So in the word "fall" indicates that Satan will be here in person because he was kicked out of heaven, and not on his own accord. The plan is set in motion, and it will take place exactly as it is written. Satan came in the first place as a deceiver, to destroy the seed line that the Christ would come through. The second time he will come as the false Messiah, to deceive all the people of the earth. It will happen exactly as it was prophesied.

No...you have not perceived the context correctly at all:

17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven​

The seventy had just gone out and returned reporting their success that had just happened, and Jesus saying "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" was His direct response about what had just recently happened.

But hey, you do not see it, nor do you believe what is written clearly. So, yes, Satan deceives many.

 

[ScottA]

@ ScottA

Let's go here

What do you see from the below verses

Luke 4:17 "And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written,"

Luke 4:18 " "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"

Luke 4:19 "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me; because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek ; He hath send Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"

Isaiah 61:2 "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that morn;"

Luke 4:20 "And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him."

Luke 4:21 "And He began to say unto them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Isaiah 61:3 "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that He might be glorified."

Okay.

And what are you thinking?

 

[ScottA]

Jesus is enthroned as king White horse Mat 24:3
the other 3 horses Mat 24:7
Yes sir, those horses represent Jesus' enthronement, which comes with war, famine, and pestilence. The greatest tribulation is yet upon us, like I said, it will take us to the point of extinction, something that did not happen in 70 CE. Mat 24:22

So then, you deny that Jesus has already taken all upon Himself, that the Father had forsaken Him once for all, on the cross.

Okay. But that is not the gospel.

 

[Robert Gwin]

So then, you deny that Jesus has already taken all upon Himself, that the Father had forsaken Him once for all, on the cross.

Okay. But that is not the gospel.

I must have missed a step somewhere Scott, what has that to do with Mat 24 being a two fold prophecy?

 

[ScottA]

I must have missed a step somewhere Scott, what has that to do with Mat 24 being a two fold prophecy?

Nothing, but rather that you were attempting to make a case for a future Great Tribulation...which is the same as denying that Jesus suffered all (already), and for all time.

The error here, comes from not fully understanding or accounting for the timeless nature of the events of God which are only revealed in time to those held captive by it. Read that again. In other words, if one constructs a rationale and belief according to the ways of this world...the best that one can actually arrive at--is not actually the truth, because it is out of context with God Himself. Such is only the thinking of men.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello, Just sharing my two cents from the perspective seen.

In context, it would pertain to the Children of Israel being cut off, and divorced and that God may be able to worshiped freely in all of the world now in which is governed by God, and people whom come to faith are born again- they can grow learning more about God and Jesus, becoming a child of God, and Son or Daughter of God by faith as they grow their knowledge and become rooted and ground in the solid foundation laid forth by the Lord Jesus Christ building a house upon him in which one day when they die they will be resurrected, and given a spiritual body by God and may be able to enter into the Heavenly Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Most discredit when Jesus said Generation as many people suppose 100 years is a generation or 10 years is a generation, but 38-41 years is a Biblical Generation, and it is up to individuals to decide, as you do have other Gospels to consider, with the context, and who was Jesus seeking after : The Lost Sheep of Israel - > Those who were part of Israel -> Jesus own people - whom God had chosen to deal with.

Rejected him, killed him, and had him murdered on the cross -> Thus leaving the wrath of God to be poured out on that nation then and there, in a sum of 40 years, and all material Religion was wiped away, including the Nation of Israels Geneaology.

What is there to do now? Sit on the stump, that Jesus had made for us, resting in him, and everything the he has done and to grow and become ingrafted into the tree that was cut down when John the Baptist said "The Axe is at the base of the Tree ready to be chopped down".


Love you!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Nothing, but rather that you were attempting to make a case for a future Great Tribulation...which is the same as denying that Jesus suffered all (already), and for all time.

The error here, comes from not fully understanding or accounting for the timeless nature of the events of God which are only revealed in time to those held captive by it. Read that again. In other words, if one constructs a rationale and belief according to the ways of this world...the best that one can actually arrive at--is not actually the truth, because it is out of context with God Himself. Such is only the thinking of men.

I still fail to see the correlation Scott, but I assure you we believe Jesus suffered and died for mankind 1989 yrs ago, a sacrifice to end all sacrifices sir. We also believe that Jerusalem suffered the greatest tribulation they had ever suffered a few decades later, but in no way did the earth come to the point of extinction, and in no way did Jesus come on the count of the holy ones. We believe that the signs are showing we are on the verge of the prophesied tribulation that will bring us to the point of extinction, and shortly thereafter Jesus and his angels will come because of the chosen ones, and remove the wicked from the earth.

Again I am not understanding how you are placing those two events together.

 

[ScottA]

I still fail to see the correlation Scott, but I assure you we believe Jesus suffered and died for mankind 1989 yrs ago, a sacrifice to end all sacrifices sir. We also believe that Jerusalem suffered the greatest tribulation they had ever suffered a few decades later, but in no way did the earth come to the point of extinction, and in no way did Jesus come on the count of the holy ones. We believe that the signs are showing we are on the verge of the prophesied tribulation that will bring us to the point of extinction, and shortly thereafter Jesus and his angels will come because of the chosen ones, and remove the wicked from the earth.

Again I am not understanding how you are placing those two events together.

It is simply a matter of accurately considering what is written--that if we are talking "great tribulation"...then not leaving out the "all encompassing" tribulation that Jesus suffered, by comparison...nothing else even compares. Which, like it says (as it is written) "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be"--meaning that no other tribulation--no matter how "great" is actually included in what was said. The words and the exclusions do not leave any room for a finale event at the end of time. Period. Without a shadow of a doubt.

Now, I know that this is what most have always believed--but look at the whole of scripture: Jesus said things are not going to be what you expect, and the precedence is the failure of Israel, the natural branch...and then there is the [fact and certainty] of strong delusion, and the non-finale of the times of Noah.

Your "failure to see the correlation" is exactly why you should suspect the errors--just like it has been foretold. Such failure is predictable--classic.

As for your outlook on what has occurred--what foreshadowing do you think the destruction of the Temple might possibly represent made manifest during these end times? I tell you--it is the annihilation of the temple of His body--not by tribulation, not that which was born of water, but by fire, which is to say, by the Spirit!

As for extinction, all die...not all at once, but just as each came into the world--"each in his own order."

The same goes for the harvest of His chosen.

As for the signs--tribulations (wars, etc.) as it is written...they were excluded. The only sign is that of the times of Noah...which has now been prefaced with the sign of the rainbow--as a sign of the changing of destruction by water, to that of the Spirit, that consuming fire.


PS, Here...this is actually what the scriptures indicate: What THE END really looks like.