Thou Shalt Tithe

[JarBreaker]

What it is to become an unprofitable servant.

This isnt referring to personal wealth, it means the profit you have made for the master you are a servant of ... sowing seed / watering / encouragement etc etc ... as you minister to those He places in your path to bring people to him.

The parable of the talents is where you find at the end ... the foolish man who HID his talent and did not INCREASE the kingdom was unprofitable for the Master ... talent being a metaphor for the Spirit and Word within yourself.




On the greater topic;

If you read Acts where they are bringing what they have to be distributed among the brethren, it was all going back into the community ... the original believers,
Acts 4:35 ... and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

There is nothing said of giving to Peter or James and let him build a mega-church so we can put on a lavish easter pageant.

The 1st instance of "tithing" 10% comes from the Levitical priesthood not being given a portion of the land ... it was actually food, they were supporting the priests who worked in the Temple who did not have the land to grow their own crops ... they had other responsibilities which kept them from being able to tend to their own crops, anyway.


NOW, all that being said ... I am not against giving at all, as you are able ... to help the widowed and orphans in your own community ( or in your immediate family, if those are in need ) ... this isnt an exclusive list by any means, but these mega-churches are anything but what was meant to happen.

 

[Brother Mike]

this isnt an exclusive list by any means, but these mega-churches are anything but what was meant to happen.

So, what happens if.................. Your Pastor is in the will of God, and really giving the truth of the Word.

What happens if........ God decides that he need to lead people to your church, because that is where the light is.

What happens if.......... your church building just won't hold or meet the needs of the growing congregation.


Your saying that you should not support your Pastor, and the Church, because we have to stop it from becoming what you call a mega-Church. What exactly is a Mega-Church??

Something seems out of place here.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jerryjohnson]

BM, if you feel lead to tithe 10% or 90% knock yourself out, it's between you and God. If I am lead to tithe 100% I'm not going to ask your permission. If soeone tithes or not, it's between them and God. If someone tithes begrudged they loss what they might have gained.

 

[Brother Mike]

If soeone tithes or not, it's between them and God. If someone tithes begrudged they loss what they might have gained.

Well, the thread was "Are we suppose to tithe 10%"

Cor tells us that God loves a cheerful giver.

So, if your looking at it this way, I fully agree. giving anything to the Kingdom with feelings of Bondage is not what it's about, and no Blessing from it.

I stated that somewhere up in the thread, but you know how that goes.........

Blessing Brother!!!

Jesus Is Lord

 

[JarBreaker]

So, what happens if..................

Oh boy, i'm reminded of something from a Paul Washer CD that was speaking in general terms but could answer this very well.

But atm, i'm in pain and groggy from falling on some steps and almost breaking / dislocating a toe earlier ... so i'm not up to digging around to find it : -(


Gist of it was, no matter how many programs or what-have-you that people are still not being discipled. In my mind, the bigger the church, the more likely they have an issue with this


edit:scrolling up after posting this, I noticed ...

for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin ...

This is going back to the tithe originally being of food to the Levites ... I imagine the spices listed here were some of the more costly items back in that time

 

[jiggyfly]

This isnt referring to personal wealth, it means the profit you have made for the master you are a servant of ... sowing seed / watering / encouragement etc etc ... as you minister to those He places in your path to bring people to him.

The parable of the talents is where you find at the end ... the foolish man who HID his talent and did not INCREASE the kingdom was unprofitable for the Master ... talent being a metaphor for the Spirit and Word within yourself.




On the greater topic;

If you read Acts where they are bringing what they have to be distributed among the brethren, it was all going back into the community ... the original believers,
Acts 4:35 ... and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

There is nothing said of giving to Peter or James and let him build a mega-church so we can put on a lavish easter pageant.

The 1st instance of "tithing" 10% comes from the Levitical priesthood not being given a portion of the land ... it was actually food, they were supporting the priests who worked in the Temple who did not have the land to grow their own crops ... they had other responsibilities which kept them from being able to tend to their own crops, anyway.


NOW, all that being said ... I am not against giving at all, as you are able ... to help the widowed and orphans in your own community ( or in your immediate family, if those are in need ) ... this isnt an exclusive list by any means, but these mega-churches are anything but what was meant to happen.

I wasn't referring it to personal wealth I was referring it to faith operating. Read the scripture text and I think you will see. My response was to what mjrhealth posted and not the topic of the OP.

Using scripture gentlemen to take what belongs to God???


Tithing is not bondage, it is a privilege. Only someone wanting to hold on to their cash would consider it a bondage.

It's a shame we have to use scriptures to justify being a thief.................... tsk.... tsk....

You boys need to loosen up that pocket book, get your eyes off what little you have, and be a blessing to God and his Kingdom.

Jesus Is Lord

Got some scripture to support that people who do not tithe are thiefs?

 

[Martin W.]

I don't tithe myself, nor know anyone who does but. My Bishop is trying to encourage people to do it. Perhaps one day I will. I just found out on our Church's AGM last Sunday that our diocese is the poorest in the church of England but has also reaised more money for the Church's charities then any other in the Church of England. I couldn't help remembering the parable of the woman who only gave a couple of rusty old coins int he temple whilst the rich folks were pouring out silber and gold, and Jesus asked, 2who gave the most."

I think Templars example is a perfect glimpse of the intent of tithing. I also think it should always be voluntary. Forced giving is not charity.

For A few years I attended a small church (about 40 members). Tithes were never mentioned. Donations totaled 11,000 per year and 6,000 was given away to the poor. The church building was paid for in cash by a retired man who had no family. All he wanted was $200 per month for the rest of his life to supplement his pension. There were no paid staff and several members took turns delivering sermons. To me this is a great way to run a local church.

In the same city was an agressive expanding church who wanted to build a $600,000 addition on their building for a school and gymnasium. All the Church members signed a 10% tithing contract with the church , and based on that, the banks loaned the money for the expansion. This worked out well , hundreds of young families had a new building and school which is the envy of many. Once the loans were paid off they found it wise to require the 10% tithing contract because otherwise a bunch of freeloading christians wanted to join the church (for free) to use the excellent modern facilities. The financial planning and contractual tithing has produced winning results from day one and has graduated hundreds of fine christians and everyone is happy. Never once was the tithing thought of as a compulsory requirement of christianity , but as a means to accomplish the goals of that particular congregation. Another good example of the intent of tithe.

Beware of anyone on TV or in the pulpit who uses guilt trips to get christians to send them money, they are charlatans performing a carnival act. On the other hand , give freely to anyone doing a good works that you would like to support. Just make sure to follow up what is done with the money and that you approve.

I have never felt tithing was a compulsory requirement of christianity , but if you want a building or a salaried pastor you will have to pay for it. Is that a tithe?? Maybe. I see it as a gift or contribution to your local group more than as a tithe to God as in the Old Testament.

I also think once in a while God will tap some of us on the shoulder to support a project he has , but the giving is usually done cheerfully and is never compulsory .

 

[Martin W.]

The financial statements I have observed often show that 80% of the money is given by only 20% of the congregation.

The 20% who give the most always seem to have plenty of money. Go figure.

I have also observed that the 80% who give the least are the ones who bitch the most about tithing. Go figure.

I have observed that people who relentlessly preach tithing want to be on the receiving end of the tithing, not the giving end.

I have also observed that some give a lot in order to influence doctrine and direction. Be careful.

The local church , whether very small or very large should openly involve everyone in budget issues and it will be a healthy atmosphere.

There are still many small groups who meet in homes just like the early church. You have to love your neighbor and forgive your neighbor and pray for your neighbor on a regular basis. Not always easy to do. Much easier to drop a quarter on a collection plate in a big religious building where you do not even know your neighbor and they do not know you. Think about it.

 

[Brother Mike]

To my Brother Jiggyfly:

Got some scripture to support that people who do not tithe are thief's?

I would give you (Mal 3:9) God said this Whole nation, not just the priest. You know that I am not a fan of dispensations of times. God considered Not tithing as theft, or robbery. Now, that is OT. To say that does not apply today for God's people would be like saying
that............... this scripture no longer applies today.

Lev 19:13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.

Does God think it OK to break into someone house and walk out with their big Sony Wide screen HDTV, with awesome stereo Hook up? Has God changed his view on this? You see Jiggyfly, consider the blessing!!! Jesus said.

Matt 7:11....... how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Your saying that God changed his view on what he considers stealing from him, then he must have changed his view on you grabbing that Sony TV that does not belong to you. I guess Adultery, and Idolatry are OK at this point. Heck, if God changes his mind like we do Underwear, We can go and trash the town, and live anyway we want. (Well, some people and their underwear)

Now how much more shall your father in Heaven give you!!!! Why would we ignore tithing if God is such a giver. Why not give what is his, Or do you think God should change his view about blessing us also???

Why someone with as much knowledge of scripture that you have, not want to activate the Blessing? It just don't make sense to me. (Pour you out a blessing there shall not be room enough to receive.)

Did not God warn us in Mal 3:6

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God told you before he got to verse 9 that he is not changing a bit. Who was Jacob, and are we not the seed of Abraham???

very convenient how God all of a sudden changes he view on theft, when it involves us getting into our bank account. Very convenient that we should call tithing a bondage. When in fact it is a privilege and blessing to us. Who would think it is bondage? Just those that won't part with their money for the things of God.

Reading some of these statements about Church it's like you people want their Pastors to hold two jobs, then rush to Church after a 8 hour shift and be ready to give life though the scripture, then head off to work again just to make ends meet, and pay all the Church bills.
I bet you folks would be happy if your Pastor had to drive a bicycle to church, (As long as it did not cost much, and was not the best bike money could buy.) Oh, what a humble Pastor we have.....................

If the Church members where taught to tithe faithfully, and people considered their Pastor a gift from God, and precious. Just think how much more would your pastor be enabled to do the things God would have them do? I think it's sad members of the Body of Christ think it's Ok for a Pastor to have to take a outside Job. Real sad people.............


]Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.



Go ahead Jiggyfly, blast me with all your not today under the law stuff...............Check your heart before you do.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[mjrhealth]

I guess it comes down to this. A King sends his ambasador to another country so he can show them what kind of king he is. But he sneds the ambasador there with no help, so the ambasador has to pay his own way, provide his own home, pay for his own food, adn the rent for an office. On top of this he has to pay for his kids education. And so the king of the other country asks the ambasador, why is it you works 2 jobs, does not your king provde for you, are you not his ambasador. Then the ambasador says. Yes, i am his ambasador, but he semnt me here on my own, without help or money, for he is greedy and pays us little.

Now how do you think that king will respond to the othere king. Is it not a kings duty and responsiblity to provide for his workers. Would it not be ambarrasing to a king to be thought of a a cheapskate and greedy, when trying to create ties to another country?

Now how would it be if the king had sent his ambasador, providing his every need, paying his way, providing a home, good wages and education for his kids. Now when the king came and spoke to him, and asks the ambasador, what kind of king is he, he could respond, see sir, He is a good King, He paid my way, provides me with a good home, good wages, and even provides a decent education for my children. If i have a need I but need to ask and it is given, i lack nothing and am well looked after. This king would see the other as a good oprtunity, someone whom he can trust and probably do busineess with.

What kind of King do you think Jesus is, that He would send His servants with nothing. Why is it that people see the church as greedy and pompos, always demanding money from people to expand and grow, if they where from God, would it not be in Gods interest to provide for His, its no wonder so many are turning away from Him, the church gives a poor account of God and the Good King He is. Should your pastor ever need to ask for money, if he did, he either lacks faith or is not called by God, or both, either way i would not be listening to waht He has to say.

When you see a man in the street, and you feel to go give him money for food, do it, and you have done the will of God.

When you see a person in winter, cold and without a coat, and you feel to give them yours, do it and you have done the will of God.

If a brother or a sister asks for money to help pay a bill or buy food and you feel the need to do it, then do it, dont ask for it back, give as God would, never asking for anything in return, then you have done the will of God.

See God loves us uncinditionally, wheter we accept His love or reject it is up to us. He would love it that we loved Him back and came to Him, but He wont stop loving us if we dont.

in His Love

 

[Brother Mike]

Should your pastor ever need to ask for money, if he did, he either lacks faith or is not called by God, or both, either way i would not be listening to waht He has to say.

WoW!!!!!......................... Mjrhealth, Where you get that revelation........... I was not clear on where you stand on tithing, but no Pastor should ever ask for money. People should never be our source.

And not being called by God????

Another WoW!!!!

Pastors make excuses as to why they have a small church, or why their church split. Why there is no money. They think that is spiritual somehow, when in fact, they are way out of the will of God. If God called you to do it, then it will never run out of money, and prosper.

I find it amazing that Churches with food programs have to turn people away, because they run out of funding or food. I ask myself if God really had that planned for that Church. Same with building projects that get half completed. Did God tell you to do that, or you think it was a good idea.

There are lots of things that are good, and scriptural, but not always in God's plan for that body or Church.

I think it is very strange how these Schools, and minsters ORDAIN Pastors, when in fact the scripture says. God sent ................

Pretty deep post..............

Jesus Is Lord

 

[mjrhealth]

Our world is all screwed up. mans church is confused with the Lords church, people think that to be called of God means to go to bible college, get a certificate and become a pastor. When God calls someone, it usually becomes a waitng game, while He reveals the heart of the person He has called to himself, then their is all the testing, required for one to walk in faith, it usually requires sacrifice of so many things, wives, kids, job, you name it, it all has to go. Then He begans to show Himself to the person, so that They can undersatnd or get a glimpse of the true heart of God. It hurts, its painfull, full of ups and downs, it has you constantly crying out to God, as you begin to see how hopeless you are without Him, and you see what kind of person you really are, then you find it hard to put people down, because now you have Jesus to compare yourself to and that makes you soo small, that you find you are no better or worse than anyone else. Then when Jesus finds you are ready and at the appointed time,He sends, by now the person is walking in faith, knowing that if God is going to send them that He will provide, He never needs to ask of anyone for anything, and when he speaks its from experience and from the spirirt not from his own understanding or wisdom, for he only says what God would have him say, no more no les, and if anyone should disagree, he knows its not his problem its between the person who disagrees and God. When you disagree with Gods servant then you are teling Jesus He is wrong, can make things rather challenging at times, also makes it difficult to write, for we will be held accountable for all we say. As for tything, it went away with the Resurection of Jesus, we noe have one thing to do, and that is to Love. Love gives without demand or question, never asking anything back , never seeking reward or honour, just happy to be doing Gods will, content in the fact that he in His own right cant please God, except by having faith, for all these other things we do, we do for it is what is ecpected of a slave, if our master chooses to reward us, its because He loves us and loves to give good things to his children, just dont epect worldly things, that comes from the flesh, but God shows more of Himself to those who ask.We love making rules for ourselves," i must give 10%, it becomes a law, its the flesh trying to achieve salvation through works, forsaking God grace and adding a cost to the price that Jesus already paid, and satan then fills us with guilt when we dont fullfill that law and so we become even more seperated from God, falling even further under the law and even further from grace. But then if you see someone in need and you heart says give them that $50 in your wallet, then do it, its your heart, its out of love and that is pleasing to God.

in His LOve

 

[JarBreaker]

Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

I'll generally throw up the 1st translation Google sends back for expediency sake, here I think it clarifies quite a bit over a KJV


Acts 6:1
In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.


6:2 is hardly saying they need not work since they are studying the Word.

There's a bit of a "class struggle" here ( if you can call it that, this was a community of brothers and sisters, but I just use that term for explanation ) ... in the KJV it will just say, the Grecians among them complained, feeling their widows were victims of discrimination, they felt the widows among the Hebrew believers were being looked after better.

The twelve were saying, we cannot neglect our studies of the Word to go see that food / etc are distributed equally among Hebrew believers and Greek converts, this was a delegation of authority in this matter ... not a way to say," we are too important to work"

This is where the whole idea of deacons and such comes from, they call for 7 men to be chosen, for them to lay hands on and appoint them the task of seeing to the distribution.

 

[jerryjohnson]

....When God calls someone, it usually becomes a waitng game, while He reveals the heart of the person He has called to himself, then their is all the testing, required for one to walk in faith, it usually requires sacrifice of so many things, wives, kids, job, you name it, it all has to go....

I think you need to do more homework on your description on how God calls everyone. Is that how God called Moses? the prophets? There are many examples of God’s call in Scripture that are very different from what you describe.

 

[jiggyfly]

To my Brother Jiggyfly:



I would give you (Mal 3:9) God said this Whole nation, not just the priest. You know that I am not a fan of dispensations of times. God considered Not tithing as theft, or robbery. Now, that is OT. To say that does not apply today for God's people would be like saying
that............... this scripture no longer applies today.

Whole lot of speculation on your part Mike, first, who's job was it to bring all the tithes into God's storehouse? Secondly post some scripture that shows God required someone to tithe outside of the covenant He made with the people of Israel through Moses.

I know WOF disregards scripture context but that doesn't mean that context is not important.

 

[Brother Mike]

Whole lot of speculation on your part Mike, first, who's job was it to bring all the tithes into God's storehouse?

God said even this WHOLE NATION. Does it matter who brought the tithe in? Everyone was suppose to be tithing.

Secondly post some scripture that shows God required someone to tithe outside of the covenant He made with the people of Israel through Moses.

I suppose your not Abraham's seed then as I mentioned. The whole point was we are blessed with Abraham, and Abraham gave tithes. Wait a minute.......... you are born again and the seed of Abraham........... time for you to cough up some cash, and get faithful in tithing. How is your Pastor going to afford a new Mercedes Benz, if you don't do your part??

I know WOF disregards scripture context but that doesn't mean that context is not important.

Where I see scriptures that God changes not, and would not change his view on what robbery is. God even was kind enough to mention that right before he talked about bringing the tithe in. I guess you "Overlooked" God's warning about him changing.

Us WOF people don't look for reasons not to bless God, and be faithful. We look at God's Character and Nature, not boxing him in to where it's OK to steal from him, as we are often accused of using the box.

Just get it off your conscience Jiggyfly, and pay your tithe.................

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jiggyfly]

God said even this WHOLE NATION. Does it matter who brought the tithe in? Everyone was suppose to be tithing.



I suppose your not Abraham's seed then as I mentioned. The whole point was we are blessed with Abraham, and Abraham gave tithes. Wait a minute.......... you are born again and the seed of Abraham........... time for you to cough up some cash, and get faithful in tithing. How is your Pastor going to afford a new Mercedes Benz, if you don't do your part??



Where I see scriptures that God changes not, and would not change his view on what robbery is. God even was kind enough to mention that right before he talked about bringing the tithe in. I guess you "Overlooked" God's warning about him changing.

Us WOF people don't look for reasons not to bless God, and be faithful. We look at God's Character and Nature, not boxing him in to where it's OK to steal from him, as we are often accused of using the box.

Just get it off your conscience Jiggyfly, and pay your tithe.................

Jesus Is Lord

Everyone in Israel was supposed to be tithing? Where do you find that in the scriptures?

Abraham gave tithes

Where do you say that Abraham gave tithes (more than once) in scripture?

Where I see scriptures that God changes not

I see scriptures where God does a new thing and makes a new covenant.

Us WOF people don't look for reasons not to bless God, and be faithful.

I'm sure God is just so blessed because somebody gives Him an allowance of earthly money, does He blow it all on candy or maybe He saves it up for a car or motorcycle?

 

[Brother Mike]

Everyone in Israel was supposed to be tithing? Where do you find that in the scriptures?

Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.


Nation:
gôy

1) nation, people (noun masculine)
1a) nation, people
1a1) usually of non-Hebrew people
1a2) of descendants of Abraham (You are a seed of Abraham!!!!)
1a3) of Israel
1b) of swarm of locusts, other animals (figuratively) (I suppose to cover yourself, we can say God meant the insects. That gets us off the Hook.)
1c) Goyim? = “nations” (noun proper masculine)

Where do you say that Abraham gave tithes (more than once) in scripture?

I suppose we can use this reasoning to say Adam only ate one time in the bible. It was that fruit. We don't have any other cases recorded of Adam eating. I could go on, but you get the point.

I see scriptures where God does a new thing and makes a new covenant.

I also see the same thing, but something as serious as theft, I think he would have mentioned his change on that view, because of the seriousness of the offense. Jesus should have mentioned it when he said do not leave the other undone.

This is the same reasoning that people say the gifts of the spirit are no longer for today. No scripture for that, just like no scripture that say's it's OK to steal.

I'm sure god is just so blessed because somebody gives Him an allowance of earthly money, does He blow it all on candy or maybe He saves it up for a car or motorcycle?

I am sure God has a lot better tackle set than we do, and were going to get to borrow it, or maybe he will give us our very own. :lol: :lol:

Be blessed Brother Jiggyfly............and you know that.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[sniper762]

DID JESUS PAY TITHES?

 

[jerryjohnson]

DID JESUS PAY TITHES?

What would He have paid a tithe on?