Thoughts on Christian Mysticism and Contemplative Practice
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Pathfinder7
Well-Known Member
'Let Go'
- Francois Fenelon
- 17th century Christian mystic
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I read it..years ago.
- interesting/helpful book.
- Kindle ebook
- Francois Fenelon
- 17th century Christian mystic
---
I read it..years ago.
- interesting/helpful book.
- Kindle ebook
Thanks.
I'm currently reading The Cloud of Unknowing.
Written in the 1300s.
The first edition of the King James Bible was 1611. (for context)
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But why? Is Jesus not enough? It's another form of spiritual entertainment and fad, like "soaking" and likewise potentially dangerous to lead you astray. Two different churches I attended at different times....when each one brought in soaking prayer the Holy Spirit urgently told me to leave. Soaking became a trend around the same time as contemplative prayer.....they are of the same ilk, and not of God. (Soaking might even have been the precursor to contemplative, I'm not sure, but I began to hear of it a few years after soaking became a thing.)
Things that are not depicted or instructed in the word of God, but which we do self consciously and deliberately.....are generated of the flesh. Which is dead, because of sin......so that is what the devil has access to, the flesh is his haunt so to speak, his stomping ground.....therefore this is not a good idea, because it opens the door to him. Buddhists and Hindus engage in similar practices and it unfortunately fills them with spirits that are not of God as well.
The difference between pagan forms of meditation and Godly meditation is that the former empties the mind, whereas the latter fills it with the word of God.......and the word of God is what we are meditating on, chewing the cud of it....it is not extra-biblical unlike pagan meditation.
Things that are not depicted or instructed in the word of God, but which we do self consciously and deliberately.....are generated of the flesh. Which is dead, because of sin......so that is what the devil has access to, the flesh is his haunt so to speak, his stomping ground.....therefore this is not a good idea, because it opens the door to him. Buddhists and Hindus engage in similar practices and it unfortunately fills them with spirits that are not of God as well.
The difference between pagan forms of meditation and Godly meditation is that the former empties the mind, whereas the latter fills it with the word of God.......and the word of God is what we are meditating on, chewing the cud of it....it is not extra-biblical unlike pagan meditation.
Seems that if it is something you aren't familiar with, then it is to be feared.
I'm reading a book on Contemplative practice that was written 300 years BEFORE the King James Bible was made available.
Not exactly a modern fad.
Like all things, to be approached with caution.
A decade ago I took a position against it, like you. I have warmed up to it since then, having learned more about it.
You probably shouldn't make such strong declarations against it when you understand it so little.
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Uh-huh. Slowly warming you up is how the devil operates. But by all means you feel free to show me this practice in the bible and I will consider it. (Whereas I seem to recall the Lord telling the Israelites not to adopt the ways of the pagans in the land and not to worship Him the way the pagans worship.) Anyway as I said please bring the scrips that taught you to do this. Otherwise..........IT'S OF THE FLESH.....just another way that seemeth right to MAN but leads to DEATH.
2Co 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Whoa, that is precisely the OPPOSITE of what the author of the Christian classic The Cloud of Unknowing says. Communion with God, he says (and I believe), is placing all notions of God beneath a "cloud of forgetting" and entering into the silent "cloud of unknowing" where God can speak to your heart and mind. "Meditating on God's Word" is something entirely different.
The Jesus Prayer of Orthodoxy, which Orthodox monks may repeat endlessly like a mantra, is the same thing as the Om Mani Padme Hum of Buddhism. I've tried both long enough to become (quickly) bored, but the basic notion is to keep your mind focused on God and free of extraneous thoughts.
Christian mysticism, IMO, is not something one seeks. One either is a mystic or is not. Many mystical experiences, specifically many of the Catholic ones, don't strike me as genuine but rather as more "hysterical" or "disturbed" than godly. Anyway, I would never engage in any practice with the intent of inducing a mystical experience because that opens the door to spirits you may wish you'd never encountered.
I am a solid proponent and practioner of communion as described by the author of The Cloud of Unknowing, but that's the extent of my "mysticism."
Exactly. I were you I'd very much stick to what the bible teaches and not add in things that men say/write that aren't scriptural. We are to bring our thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ.........who is the Word made flesh.
I'm not trying to sell this to anyone that isn't already comfortable with it.
Not trying to sell it at all. The topic is for discussion by those already interested.
But your derogatory comments are welcome too.
In the book I am reading on the subject, the author points to the situation with Mary and Martha. (Luke 10:38-42)
The author sees Martha as "active" in her faith and Mary as "contemplative". Both are good, just different.
Interestingly, Jesus defended Mary saying, "Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her." - vs 42
Perhaps Jesus would compare you with Martha?
“Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things..." - vs 41
Why did Jesus defend Mary rather than supporting Martha?
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What was Mary doing at the feet of Jesus? She was LISTENING to Him, filling up with His word, and contemplating THAT, not emptying her mind. We all need to take time and make prayer and reading the bible a priority, as well as meditating on it. The devil sure likes to pervert the things of God and make something out of it that God didn't intend......leading to death.
That seems like a good defense for contemplative practice.
The goal is "entering into the silent "cloud of unknowing" where God can speak to your heart and mind." as @O'Darby wrote.
It seems that Mary had emptied her mind. She had no response to Martha.
What would you have done if your sister criticized you for listening at the feet of Jesus? (instead of helping in the kitchen)
And... I'm still waiting for a response to this question:
Why did Jesus defend Mary rather than supporting Martha?
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Silent communion with God is unscriptural??? I need a Bible verse to tell me to sit in silent communion? That seems to me like taking Bibliolatry to the extreme. This common attitude of being fearful of anything that is even vaguely related to practices of other religions (BUDDHISTS SIT IN SILENT CONTEMPLATION AND THEY'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!!!") is just weird to me.
I'm weary of this conversation already. No ears to hear so why bother. So much utter nonsense in Christendom these days. Mysterious "cloud of unknowing".....really? Hocus pocus alimagocus. Good golly. Show me this "cloud of unknowing" in God's word. You can't because it isn't there. Therefore somebody made it up. One of those vain imaginations the bible talks about that exalts itself above God's knowledge. The bible talks about meditating on God's word and chewing the cud of it, and that's all. If you want to keep blowing about with divers winds of trendy doctrines, that's on you. I've had it about to up to here with such garbage. God judgment is coming, I strongly suggest to stop playing in the sandbox and put away childish things and learn to love the truth before its too late, if isn't already.
Oh sure, feel free to listen to God, but they are making something simple and normal into a horse of a different colour. It's deception. And it robs God of His glory and gives it to whoever is making this stuff up. Ear tickling, spine tingling utter NONSENSE.
No, are you kidding?....He's much bigger and hotter than a volcano. Better start working out your salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING. Who is it that God esteems? He who TREMBLES at His word. Don't you know that yet? You better put down the garbage you've been reading and start reading the bible.
--- PARODY ---
Imagined conversation between Jesus and a distraught mother in heaven. (parody)
Mother: Lord, I was remembering my child.
Jesus: Yes, I can see her now in torment.
Mother: When will it end?
Jesus: Hell is forever.
Mother: Is there no hope for my child?
Jesus: Sorry, no hope for those in hell.
Mother: Surely my child has been punished enough by now.
Jesus: No, unbelief is an eternal crime.
Mother: I would gladly trade places with my child.
Jesus: I couldn't do that to you.
Mother: Why can you do it to my child?
Jesus: They are my enemy.
Mother: Didn't you teach us to love our enemies?
Jesus: Hmm... you got me there.
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"Hey God! You told me not to judge others!! So just what exactly do you think you are doing with me? If I can't judge them, you can't judge me!"
Try it, see if it works . . .
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