Thoughts on Christian Mysticism and Contemplative Practice
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When I see a pattern of immaturity it tells me I better not drink the koolaid they are feeding on.......because it isn't doing them any good. The fruits tell the story.
Well, this is in the Bible but you REFUSE to answer the question.
Here it is for the third time.
And... I'm still waiting for a response to this question:
Why did Jesus defend Mary rather than supporting Martha?
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I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that's it. They are all of God and the bible explicitly says Jesus is God come in the flesh, and so that puts that argument about the deity of Christ to rest as far as I'm concerned. I will discuss the deity of Christ, but I avoid arguments about "Trinity" because I suspect the concept of "Trinity" is not quite right. The Holy Spirit is God's spirit......I'm not sure I can consider the Holy Spirit to be a separate entity from the Father....and he is the Spirit of Christ as well. The spirit of God and spirit of Christ are one and the same. "Who knows the mind of a man but his spirit within him?" and "hear O Israel the Lord is one." But God hasn't given me revelation of that so I have nothing concrete to say about it up to now, just my wonderings.
Martha wasn't prioritizing the way Jesus would have her do.......and being a woman myself I'm guessing she was obeying cultural pressures concerning hospitality rather than putting that aside to be with Jesus. While Mary was waiting on Jesus the way HE willed and listening to Him speak. That's how I see it.
And just to say I'm not "refusing" to answer, just kind of forgot to with everything else being discussed. I'm not young any more and have trouble keeping up at times.
In the book, The Cloud of Unknowing, Martha is viewed as being "active" and Mary as being "contemplative".
Seems that Jesus would have preferred that they both be contemplative.
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What is the "it" you're talking about? Christian contemplation in general? The technique described in The Cloud of Unknowing, or what? What is the "it" that "isn't contemplative meditation" but "something else entirely"? I'm not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of argument but am genuinely puzzled as to what the issue is.
This is from The Cloud of Unknowing:
"This is what you are to do: lift your heart up to the Lord, with a gentle stirring of love desiring him for his own sake and not for his gifts. Center all your attention and desire on him and let this be the sole concern of your mind and heart. Do all in your power to forget everything else, keeping your thoughts and desires free from involvement with any of God's creatures or their affairs whether in general or particular."
Is this troubling to you? A Christian sits down to commune with the God of Christianity with this attitude and it sounds to you like eastern mysticism?
Or St. Gregory the Great, who in the 6th century called contemplation "resting in God" -
In this “resting,” the mind and heart are not so much seeking God, as beginning to experience what they have been seeking. This state is not the suspension of all activity, but the reduction of many acts and reflections to a single act or thought in order to sustain one’s consent to God’s presence and action.
In this traditional understanding, contemplation, or contemplative prayer, is not something that can be achieved through will, but rather is God’s gift. It is the opening of mind and heart – one’s whole being – to God. Contemplative prayer is a process of interior transformation. It is a relationship initiated by God and leading, if one consents, to divine union.
"Opening of mind and heart" is not "emptying the mind." Even in the eastern religions, meditation is not emptying the mind. Zen is "just sitting." As thoughts inevitably come, the Zen student simply observes them and does not engage with them. But eastern meditation is neither contemplation nor communion. When a Christian prayerfully sits in silence to commune with the God of Christianity, I fail to see what the concern could possibly be. If we need to fear Satan and his demons in this circumstance, we are elevating them above God.
I think the issue is not that Jesus preferred Martha to stop working and listen to Him. I think it has to do with Martha trying to force Mary into doing what she was doing...trying to impose a certain dogmatic stance on what one should be doing. Jesus prefers we do what we should without making a rule out of it for others to copy. If it was in Martha's heart to serve the meal...then she is free to do so. If it was on Mary's heart to tarry before Jesus...then she is equally free to do that.
Lest we get hung up on The Cloud of Unknowing - which has stood the test of time for 650 years but was written by a contemplative monk for contemplative monks - let us remember that contemplative prayer, prayerful communion and mysticism are as old as Christianity. They are not some "newfangled thing." They are part, to one degree or another, of a mature and balanced Christian life. It's weird how we think babbling to God about new toys and miracle cures is pleasing - that's PRAYER, baby! - but shutting up and letting Him speak to our hearts and minds is dangerous and may open the door to demonic influences. I think the naysayers on this thread (1) really have no idea what we or they are talking about, and (2) are equating what we are talking about to some sort of New Age, rune stone, Ascended Master Jesus spirituality, which is 180 degrees from what we are actually talking about. This is the knee-jerk reaction of the fearful fundie.
Absolutely! I have read literally scores of books on Zen, which is why my Christianity is under a dark cloud of suspicion here (hey, I smell a book title: The Dark Cloud of Suspicion
). As did Thomas Merton and many other Christian writers, I believe a "Zen attitude" can greatly inform one's Christian walk.Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
For more information...
contemplativeoutreach.org
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Home - Contemplative Outreach, Ltd.
Contemplative Outreach is a spiritual network of individuals and small faith communities committed to living the contemplative dimension of the Gospel.
contemplativeoutreach.org
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Practice
Contemplative practices facilitate and deepen our relationship with God. The more we practice and allow the transformation process to happen, the more we are able to experience the Indwelling Presence in everything we do. Contemplative practices give us the eyes to see and the ears to hear God calling us to the banquet that is our lives, as they are. This method of prayer is both a relationship with God and a discipline to deepen that relationship.Centering Prayer
Centering Prayer is a receptive method of Christian silent prayer which deepens our relationship with God, the Indwelling Presence … a prayer in which we can experience God’s presence within us, closer than breathing, closer than thinking, closer than consciousness itself.Lectio Divina
Lectio Divina, literally meaning “divine reading,” is an ancient practice of praying the Scriptures. During Lectio Divina, the practitioner listens to the text of the Bible with the “ear of the heart,” as if he or she is in conversation with God, and God is suggesting the topics for discussion.Welcoming Prayer
The Welcoming Prayer is a method of consenting to God’s presence and action in our physical and emotional reactions to events and situations in daily life. The purpose of the Welcoming Prayer is to deepen our relationship with God through consenting in the ordinary activities of our day — “consent-on-the-go.”The Active Prayer Practice
The active prayer—an aspiration drawn from Scripture for us in daily life — is short, usually six to twelve syllables. The saying of the syllables is synchronized with one’s heartbeat. While some people like to use a variety of aspirations for this purpose, it is easier to work a single aspiration into the subconscious. The great advantage of this practice is that it eventually becomes a “tape” similar to the “tapes” that accompany one’s upsetting emotions. When this occurs, the aspiration has the remarkable effect of erasing the old tapes, thus providing a neutral zone in which common sense or the Spirit of God can suggest what should be done.
The active prayer has to be repeated again and again at free moments in order to work it into the subconscious. The old tapes were built up through repeated acts. A new tape can be established in the same way. It may take a year to establish one’s active prayer in the subconscious. It will then arise spontaneously. One may wake up saying it or it may accompany one’s dreams.
Go about this practice without anxiety, haste, or excessive effort. Do not blame yourself for forgetting to say it on some days; just start up again. It should not be repeated when your mind is occupied with other things such as conversation, study, or work requiring concentration.
Examples of the active prayer:
O Lord, come to my assistance.
O God, make haste to help me.
Holy Mary, Mother of God.
Open my heart to your love.
Lord, I give myself to you.
My Lord and my God.
Not my will but thine be done.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done.
Our help is in the name of the Lord.
Lord, do with me what You will.
Speak Lord, Your servant is listening.
Excerpted from Thomas Keating’s, Open Mind, Open Heart
Source
Please stick to the topic or this thread will be deleted and members who veer towards the Trinity will incur warning points. Thank you!
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