Thoughts on Christian Mysticism and Contemplative Practice

[dev553344]

I haven't done much with this,
A bit of reading. Discussing with others.
Tried breath prayer meditation. (the Jesus prayer)

Here's my personal favorite. (speak silently)

Behold the Lamb of God, (inhale)
who takes away the sin of the world. (exhale) repeat

/ @Chadrho @O'Darby

God speaks to us when he decides and not before. And he says what he wants to say and not what we want him to say, He adheres to perfect righteousness and goodness, holiness.

Trying to invite a response, well from my experience it is always Satan that does the most talking anyways. He spends most of his time trying to mislead the followers of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

You are wise to do so. A religion of death demands you hold to certain beliefs. But the way of Christ is by life...an eternal kind of life that is full of joy, love and peace. The opposite is religion that smells of death and decay. But people will latch onto that death thinking that they are pleasing God with it....and that they will benefit eternally for it.

These do NOT know God or His ways.

Um, how do you follow the way of Christ without having any belief in Him...? Isn't it the work of God to BELIEVE ON HE WHOM HE SENT? If you try to follow a good way without Him you are only glorifying yourself and not HIM. That is what FALLEN man seeks to do.

 

[Phil .]

Nobody’s favorite contemplation…

What is the feeling of being me.

If the aim is mysticism, dispel all self-referential thoughts and all subject-object thoughts, and acknowledge all emotions.

And dream BIG, for it shall be.

 

[Episkopos]

Um, how do you follow the way of Christ without having any belief in Him...?

Like how tall is He...what size of shoe does He wear? Facts ABOUT Jesus? That's as far as many go. Superficial. But when you ask people what Jesus can do for them...well, that's a different story. Few want to ACTUALLY know Him...outside of bible reading time.

Isn't it the work of God to BELIEVE ON HE WHOM HE SENT?

Now you sound as superficial as Amigo. We are to believe INTO Christ...to be where He is...empowered to walk in His strength. Does that sound inclusive enough for you?

If you try to follow a good way without Him you are only glorifying yourself and not HIM. That is what FALLEN man seeks to do.

There you go again. If you are not superfluous and religious...you must be another kind of superfluous and non-religious.

The truth is so far outside your experience that your options don't come anywhere near.

So to all your options...no.

 

[O'Darby]

So you won't show me how what I said was dark and joyless to you?

As for me I have trouble accepting that someone is a Christian if he needs to read Zen in order to understand the bible. I want no part of that, and may heaven help such a one.

Oh, Lord help us, here we go ... Now you have "trouble accepting" whether someone (moi) is a Christian. Did anyone say anything about "needing" to read Zen to "understand the bible"? (I might suggest you might understand the Bible a lot better if you read some of the Buddhist and Hindu scriptures, but that would send you right off the deep end.)

To hearken back to what @Episkopos has suggested, I am struck by how utterly Pharisee-like this brand of Christianity has become. As he suggested - haughty, judgmental, arrogant, self-righteous. Or my terms - narrow, dark, fearful, joyless.

All WE need is the Bible, because WE are real Christians. Real Christians like US take it seriously, WAY more seriously than YOU do. Science, archaeology, history, the other most profound spirtitual works of mankind - not only do WE not need them because WE, unlike YOU, find all truth solely in the inerrant-in-every-possible-way Scriptures, but WE are pretty sure they're all demonic. YOUR spiritual practices? Well, sorry, but WE don't find them in the Scriptures and thus are obligated to lecture YOU on behalf Jesus, who lives in OUR hearts, even to the extent of expressing OUR doubts (on behalf of Jesus, of course) as to whether YOU are a Christian at all. Yes, WE are "having trouble accepting" whether YOU are a Christian at all. Thank God WE are not like YOU!

In the hands of this brand of Christianity, the Good News becomes the Rather Depressing Not-Such-Good News. No wonder nonbelievers look at it and say "Why would I want to be part of THAT???" No wonder other believers (moi) look at it and say, "Is this really what Jesus was talking about AT ALL? Is this what He had in mind AT ALL?"

Kudos to this forum for at least allowing issues such as this to be discussed. Many forums, as I know @Mr E will agree, operate as though they were little more than Protection Societies for this narrow, holier-than-thou brand of Christianity. One can believe every word of this forum's Statement of Faith without falling into that trap.

 

[Mr E]

I haven't done much with this,
A bit of reading. Discussing with others.
Tried breath prayer meditation. (the Jesus prayer)

Here's my personal favorite. (speak silently)

Behold the Lamb of God, (inhale)
who takes away the sin of the world. (exhale) repeat

/ @Chadrho @O'Darby

We usually have turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas.....

But at Easter? -and I don't know why, but it's usually-- "Behold the ham of God."

 

[Mr E]

Silent communion with God is unscriptural??? I need a Bible verse to tell me to sit in silent communion? That seems to me like taking Bibliolatry to the extreme. This common attitude of being fearful of anything that is even vaguely related to practices of other religions (BUDDHISTS SIT IN SILENT CONTEMPLATION AND THEY'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!!!") is just weird to me.

Be still and know.....

 

[O'Darby]

My worry is the similarities with eastern mysticism and how eastern mysticism can involve channeling demons. @Michiah-Imla may know better.

This is the fearful attitude I'm talking about. Think about it: Christian churches are "pretty similar" to Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist places of worship. Christian prayer is "pretty similar" to Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist prayer. The distinction - hello? - is that it's CHRISTIAN. Why would anyone be fearful that contemplative communion by a CHRISTIAN with the God of CHRISTIANITY, a common practice since the first century, was going to somehow morph into "channeling demons" just because it may be superficially "similar" to eastern meditation? Is God THAT weak? I'm surprised some Christians don't just lock themselves in a closet with a Bible and a flashlight and have their meals pushed under the door.

 

[St. SteVen]

Your parodies are not biblical.

LOL

Depends who you ask.

/

 

[marks]

(I might suggest you might understand the Bible a lot better if you read some of the Buddhist and Hindu scriptures, but that would send you right off the deep end.)

Having done that, I'd heartily disagree.

Christianity is a certain thing that is complete unlike anything else. Mixture with worldly religions is adulteration.

Much love!

 

[O'Darby]

Having done that, I'd heartily disagree.

Christianity is a certain thing that is complete unlike anything else. Mixture with worldly religions is adulteration.

Much love!

OK, you would heartily disagree. I would heartily disagree with you. And on we go. Is whether we disagree on this issue relevant to who is or isn't on a Christian path or pleasing to God? I say no, you perhaps say yes. And so what? It's relevant to you and your cronies because you think you get to define Christianity for everyone else.

You describe "mixture" with other religions as "adulteration" because this is your fearful perspective. I would characterize it as "study" of other religions because (1) many of their scriptures are uncannily similar to Christian teachings and many of their scholars are profound, and (2) such studies can help inform my understanding of Christianity, which is perhaps why I'm not a whacked-out Bibliolatrist who thinks the creation is 6,500 years old (stop it, @O'Darby, you incorrigible punk!). You might be astounded to know how much Christian theology has been influenced by Muslim scholarship.

Hey, hide in a closet with your Bible and a flashlight if it makes you feel godly and secure. Because I don't think I get to define Christianity for everyone else, I don't say there is anything ungodly or un-Christian about such an approach.

 

[marks]

your fearful perspective.

You are fully mischaracterizing me.

There is one way, and you don't have to be afraid to know that if you want to get to your destination you stay on that path.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hey, hide in a closet with your Bible and a flashlight if it makes you feel godly and secure.

I remain amazed at the many outlandish ways people will respond to others.

Regardless, you seem pretty set in your ideas, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. Call it whatever you like, it doesn't matter to me. Everyone reveals themselves in their words, and you are revealing yourself to me.

Your ridicule doesn't reflect on me, it reflects on you.

Much love!

 

[O'Darby]

You are fully mischaracterizing me.

There is one way, and you don't have to be afraid to know that if you want to get to your destination you stay on that path.

If you want to go off in other directions that's up to you.

Much love!

But again, you think you get to define "the way" and "the path" for everyone else. I was on "the path" as you define it with Campus Crusade and a Southern Baptist seminary. If I'd never widened my path and expanded my horizons, I doubt I'd still be a Christian.

I remain amazed at the many outlandish ways people will respond to others.

Much love!

Alas, I'm just naturally outlandish. It's a gift. Surely you're not suggesting there would be anything wrong with spending all day in a lead-lined, demon-proof closet with a Bible and a flashlight?

Just me, perhaps, but I find slapping "Much love!" at the end of every post sort of outlandish in its own right.

 

[St. SteVen]

Just me, perhaps, but I find slapping "Much love!" at the end of every post sort of outlandish in its own right.

Yes.
It smacks of... __________________________ (fill in the blank)

/

 

[lforrest]

This is the fearful attitude I'm talking about. Think about it: Christian churches are "pretty similar" to Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist places of worship. Christian prayer is "pretty similar" to Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist prayer. The distinction - hello? - is that it's CHRISTIAN. Why would anyone be fearful that contemplative communion by a CHRISTIAN with the God of CHRISTIANITY, a common practice since the first century, was going to somehow morph into "channeling demons" just because it may be superficially "similar" to eastern meditation? Is God THAT weak? I'm surprised some Christians don't just lock themselves in a closet with a Bible and a flashlight and have their meals pushed under the door.

Except it isn't contemplative meditation, but something else entirely, that is more closely tied to eastern mysticism in that it empties the mind. And repeating of a mantra is one way that demons are channeled.

I am concerned due to the spiritualistic pattern of it. And it would be unwise to ignore my insights as baseless fears, as pattern recognition has served me well over the years. Nether is it wise to do whatever and trust God to make it harmless.
But the product of my concerns is based on an insight, so I've sought advice.

 

[marks]

Yes.
It smacks of... __________________________ (fill in the blank)

/

It's up to you if you choose to not believe I desire the best for you.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Except it isn't contemplative meditation, but something else entirely, that is more closely tied to eastern mysticism in that it empties the mind. And repeating of a mantra is one way that demons are channeled.

I am concerned due to the spiritualistic pattern of it. And it would be unwise to ignore my insights as baseless fears, as pattern recognition has served me well over the years. Nether is it wise to do whatever and trust God to make it harmless.
But the product of my concerns is based on an insight, so I've sought advice.

Yes, they are trying to re-invent the wheel and give it a new name and I've noticed that always spells trouble. Of course we are to listen to the Lord and wait on Him etc.....it's called prayer. Two way conversation with the Lord, because He is alive after all and His sheep know His voice.....it's nothing new but it gets re-packaged as something that it isn't, and not to mention the marketing of such things.....making the house of God into a house of merchandise...aka Mystery Babylon.

 

[Lizbeth]

It's up to you if you choose to not believe I desire the best for you.

Much love!

Their pettiness speaks volumes.

 

[Mr E]

Their pettiness speaks volumes.

Pure paranoia from all the usual suspects.

Whatever would God do without his Internet warriors?

The theological Thought Police.