Three (3) Advents?

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ScottA

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Sooo....what. By believing that Christ is physically coming again, and that sin and death remains in this world and, to an extent, within us too (which has bible verses to back it up), I'm gaining the world and destroying my soul?
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd rather stick with the bible, rather than just some guy I don't know, k?
Let me spell it out:

The bible explains in progressive form the glory of God in spirit and man becoming One with Him. But you are advocating for a glorification of the flesh which the bible says leads only to death. You are rooting for the wrong team.
 
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ScottA

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And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. -Luke 24:2–3

Body MISSING.
The hand of God being quicker than the eyes of men, does not mean the body of Christ went missing.
So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. -Matthew 28:8–9

Body APPEARED. NOT as the Church. We also see his body eat, touch things and tell others he is NOT a ghost. So please, do tell how Jesus' body is 'the Church'. And yes, of course I know the analogy Paul uses, and it's a very helpful picture. But clearly the bible teaches Christ has his OWN body as well.
Read on...He goes on to give it to the church.
I am merely following your thought through to it's logical conclusion. IF Christ's "body" is the Church, then we must understand that Christ himself is only a head. Because Paul tells us that Christ is the head of the body. No? Of course, if we're talking symbolism, then that's okay then. But if we ARE talking symbolism, then you cannot deny the bible speaks of Christ also have a physical body. Unless you want to deny all those passages that speak of him being physical.

I do allegory just fine; I'm an Amillennialist. What I object to is dismissing scriptures that have no clear or obvious reasons to be read that way. Paul's illustration of the Church 'body'? Clearly an image. All the stories about Christ's risen physical body? NOT allegory. And we know this because if any of it can be cast into allegory, then the whole resurrection is cast into doubt. And without the resurrection we are left with half a gospel. Which....mmm. Might be where you're at.
There is no "IF Christ's "body" is the Church", it is a biblical fact.

And then you go on being silly again. Is the "head" of a cooperation...just a head? Apparently you do not "do allegory just fine."

I am not "dismissing scriptures", but explaining them. Such a comment is like thinking that Jesus came to destroy the law and the prophets. Perhaps if you gave just one example of where and how you think I have "dismissed scripture", then I could show you that I am not. But whirling a cloud of such assumptions about in your head will accomplish nothing.

You failed at allegory. Sorry, you are not at all clear on Paul's use of the term "body" with regard to the church. You see, Paul put it together that Jesus taking the bread and saying "Take, eat, this is my body", was Him giving His body to the church. But apparently you are not there yet.

But none of that should cast doubt upon the resurrection. As Paul explained, "what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be."

Again, from now on, just one point at a time please.
 
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101G

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GINOLJC, to all
You misunderstand. Of course the Holy Spirit acted before Jesus was glorified--He is God
first thanks for the reply, second, you just contridicted yourself. because you don't know the difference of a temporary indwelling from a permanent indwelling. that's why you cannot understand the verses. after, after, after he is glorified he will be indewlling his church/believers permanently. my God Scott you should have understood or known this. oh well.

again you mis-understood, you said,
I have told you the truth. And that truth is this: that "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (Jesus), not from Noah, nor from the first even to the last.
but did you just said that JESUS is GOD?
Of course the Holy Spirit acted before Jesus was glorified--He is God, "the same yesterday, today, and forever.
see how you contridict yourself every time. so Noah and all the other perfect saints came by the Lord Jesus who was without flesh, without bone, and without blood... for he/JESUS/GOD is the same Yd/Td/Fm.
so no, you're not speaking the truth. you're mishandling the word of God, maybe out of ignorance, because I don't believe you willing and knowing will mislead someone. so I take your position as a lack of knowledge and understanding of God's Holy word. as you said enough, because you're embarrassing yourself with the scriptures.

one last thing, I cain't see how a believing christian can say our Lord rose his body and then left it somewhere. my question to you, "WHY RAISE IT IF HE WAS NOT GOING TO USED IT?" I believe that's a far question. why raise and then "GLORIFY" a body if you're not going to use it. it just don't make sense.

but, if that's your belief, that's on you. I wash my hand of that thinking.

PICJAG.
 

ScottA

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GINOLJC, to all

first thanks for the reply, second, you just contridicted yourself. because you don't know the difference of a temporary indwelling from a permanent indwelling. that's why you cannot understand the verses. after, after, after he is glorified he will be indewlling his church/believers permanently. my God Scott you should have understood or known this. oh well.

again you mis-understood, you said,

but did you just said that JESUS is GOD?
see how you contridict yourself every time. so Noah and all the other perfect saints came by the Lord Jesus who was without flesh, without bone, and without blood... for he/JESUS/GOD is the same Yd/Td/Fm.
so no, you're not speaking the truth. you're mishandling the word of God, maybe out of ignorance, because I don't believe you willing and knowing will mislead someone. so I take your position as a lack of knowledge and understanding of God's Holy word. as you said enough, because you're embarrassing yourself with the scriptures.

one last thing, I cain't see how a believing christian can say our Lord rose his body and then left it somewhere. my question to you, "WHY RAISE IT IF HE WAS NOT GOING TO USED IT?" I believe that's a far question. why raise and then "GLORIFY" a body if you're not going to use it. it just don't make sense.

but, if that's your belief, that's on you. I wash my hand of that thinking.

PICJAG.
No contradiction, you're just not tracking with it all. Perhaps you might read it all again.

But it is understandable, for you say yourself that you "can't see" what I have laid out for you just as the scriptures have, but with explanation of plain speech, that which is paramount to what a "Christian" even is. Of course Jesus "rose his body and then left it"--He left it to His church...that is the gospel!

Colossians 1:27
"To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."​

But, indeed, it is enough, for while you presume to preach, you are not even getting what ought to be most elementary.
 

101G

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LET'S make it crystal clear,
Ps 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
has all of his enemies been made his footstool yet? there are still some pocket of resistance, even here on this site. but when he comes, (for the third time) all will put down all remaining enemies, especially .... "DEATH".
1Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. just gave away why we must all come by Christ :rolleyes:
1Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (My God the revelation here, "Firstfruits", the "s" at the end, the DEAD in Christ, the FAITHFUL. then the LIVING at his coming).
1Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (Psalms 110:1)
1Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Cor 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

all in all, ONE God, no more diversity of another, (the equal share in natural flesh, now Glorified, without blood, raised in POWER).

if he came at PENTECOST, and that was the END, how are we still HERE?

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Of course Jesus "rose his body and then left it"--He left it to His church...that is the gospel!
ERROR, and here it is Scott, Heb 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession".

ok Scott, let's see if you know your bible. is the Son of God flesh and Bone or Spirit. remember Hebrews 4:14 states, "Jesus the Son of God",. now Scott is the Son of God flesh yes or No? plese answer.

PICJAG.
 

ScottA

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ERROR, and here it is Scott, Heb 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession".

ok Scott, let's see if you know your bible. is the Son of God flesh and Bone or Spirit. remember Hebrews 4:14 states, "Jesus the Son of God",. now Scott is the Son of God flesh yes or No? plese answer.

PICJAG.
You test your own knowledge, and display your own ignorance.

As for me, I know the truth: It is the Christ who is flesh and blood (and bone if you insist), but "God is spirit", meaning Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 

101G

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You test your own knowledge, and display your own ignorance.

As for me, I know the truth: It is the Christ who is flesh and blood (and bone if you insist), but "God is spirit", meaning Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
it's not a test if you know. but seeing that you don't know, we'll reveal it to you.
the Son of God is flesh and bone, supportive scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". Scott the Son of God is BORN, but the Son of man is not BORN, but is Given, he's the spirit. The son of Man is the spirit that came from heaven, John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".

now understand, Mark 9:9 "And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead". question, "how can one tell that the SON OF MAN, (who is spirit), rose from the dead?". answer, "because he have a BODY that is his proof that he rose. scripture,
Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. (get that?)
Luke 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have".

Scott, Scott, the Son of Man is spirit, and it is his BODY, (the Son of God) makes him the CHRIST.

now, how do we know he is in heave in a GLORIFIED "BODY", scripture again, Heb 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession".

see Scott. by knowing the difference between the Son of God, and the Son of man we may know the things of God. as the apostle Paul said, "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope". so what was written afore that made me know this? Isa 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

that child that was born is the SON of GOD, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". yes, that which was born is flesh and bone, the son of God, and this son of God is our High priest that passed into the heavens, Heb 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession".

see how easy it is to just follow the scriptures... the Spirit. that which was born is the temple, the body of the spirit, (the son of man), not the gospel. no the Spirit is the Gospel, the everlasting water for those who thirst.

see, there is no need for a test, it you know this already. so peace be with you, and hope you get some understand of this. if not just ask.

PICJAG.
 

ScottA

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it's not a test if you know. but seeing that you don't know, we'll reveal it to you.
the Son of God is flesh and bone, supportive scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". Scott the Son of God is BORN, but the Son of man is not BORN, but is Given, he's the spirit. The son of Man is the spirit that came from heaven, John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".

now understand, Mark 9:9 "And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead". question, "how can one tell that the SON OF MAN, (who is spirit), rose from the dead?". answer, "because he have a BODY that is his proof that he rose. scripture,
Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. (get that?)
Luke 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have".

Scott, Scott, the Son of Man is spirit, and it is his BODY, (the Son of God) makes him the CHRIST.

now, how do we know he is in heave in a GLORIFIED "BODY", scripture again, Heb 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession".

see Scott. by knowing the difference between the Son of God, and the Son of man we may know the things of God. as the apostle Paul said, "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope". so what was written afore that made me know this? Isa 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

that child that was born is the SON of GOD, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". yes, that which was born is flesh and bone, the son of God, and this son of God is our High priest that passed into the heavens, Heb 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession".

see how easy it is to just follow the scriptures... the Spirit. that which was born is the temple, the body of the spirit, (the son of man), not the gospel. no the Spirit is the Gospel, the everlasting water for those who thirst.

see, there is no need for a test, it you know this already. so peace be with you, and hope you get some understand of this. if not just ask.

PICJAG.
You have it all quite mixed up. But, it is enough. No need to belabor the point.
 

ScottA

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so we can take this as you cannot refute what was posted.

agreed.

PICJAG
No, that is not true at all.

I have many more things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now.
 

Naomi25

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Your going on and on is obviously for good reason--you don't even understand from the very beginning of what is written: There was no "fracturing of God's first vision for mankind." Lacking in this very basic understanding...you have no ground for which to lecture or to presume to be wise. You are not.

Manifesting the fall of man in history form does not give the kingdom of God a timeline with regard to the events of men. It is rather, and simply for simplicity sake, a form of revelation regarding those things which occurred in God "in the twinkling of an eye", meaning timelessly with God. So, you can go on and on about your understanding of how things occurred, even when they occurred; you can even say Jesus was slain in the fullness of time--but the greater truth with God is also written and it was "before the foundation of the world."

So, no, God did not create a race of perfect or inferior beings to fix and glorify the flesh above His own spiritual perfection. There is no there, there. It is just an explanation, a revelation, "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

...And then you continue to go on and on stumbling without understanding. That is not the way to all truth. Perhaps if you didn't take such big bites--one thing at a time, we could look at some of those other points. Meanwhile, your rambling on is not helping.

One point at a time, please.
:rolleyes: Sure. Let's ignore the fact that the bible itself presents an a 'timeline', or that God himself placed us within that time, space and bodies. That God can and does dwell outside of time isn't the point; he created us to be human: dwelling withing time 'then there was morning and evening', and in flesh and spirit. And his redemption will ultimately cover all of those things. That is why in the New Jerusalem we see the Tree of the Fruit of Life again. Time still exists for us, but does not have the toll it currently does.
Look, I quite frankly disagree in the most strongest of terms with what your claiming, and don't see it at all in scripture. And I don't really feel the need to put up with your constant aspersions on my wisdom or intellect. Sorry to say it doesn't dent my feelings or my beliefs, but I see no reason to put up with it, especially considering we are getting nowhere.
 

101G

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No, that is not true at all.

I have many more things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now.
first thanks for the reply, second, many more? but what have you told so far?

that's ok, I have heard enough.

PICJAG.
 

ScottA

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first thanks for the reply, second, many more? but what have you told so far?

that's ok, I have heard enough.

PICJAG.
It is as I suspected. That was a quote from scripture, fitting for the circumstance...but not knowing the scriptures, you did not perceive it, and that has been the problem here.

Yes, enough already.
:rolleyes: Sure. Let's ignore the fact that the bible itself presents an a 'timeline', or that God himself placed us within that time, space and bodies. That God can and does dwell outside of time isn't the point; he created us to be human: dwelling withing time 'then there was morning and evening', and in flesh and spirit. And his redemption will ultimately cover all of those things. That is why in the New Jerusalem we see the Tree of the Fruit of Life again. Time still exists for us, but does not have the toll it currently does.
Look, I quite frankly disagree in the most strongest of terms with what your claiming, and don't see it at all in scripture. And I don't really feel the need to put up with your constant aspersions on my wisdom or intellect. Sorry to say it doesn't dent my feelings or my beliefs, but I see no reason to put up with it, especially considering we are getting nowhere.
As long as you error in the idea that "he created us to be human" etc...which is not true, you will indeed continue in your beliefs. But it's a rabbit hole based on things that are not written; and what is written, I have explained in plain language, fulfilling a prophecy and promise from Christ, in spite of your rejecting it.

As you will then.
 

101G

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It is as I suspected. That was a quote from scripture, fitting for the circumstance...but not knowing the scriptures, you did not perceive it, and that has been the problem here.

Yes, enough already.
you suspected in ERROR as was your , and yes, Y O U R quotes. for Y O U R scriptures were not of God, but of you. now if you knew that it was JESUS who came on Pentecost then you know that the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit/Comforter, and that eliminate any three persons in any Godhead.
now, knowing that, (Jesus is the Holy Spirit), that means John 1:1 eliminates another person in your Godhead becauseof Acts 17:24 states, "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands". he, he, a single person that made all things? Jand that single person ... is, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". so Scott that eliminates any other person in the Godhead, so that means, this has already happen, ... the coming on Pentecost. listen,
1 Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (STOP IF YOU SAY THAT THIS IS THE COMING THAT TOOK PLACE AT PENTECOST CONTUINE TO READ).
1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

so all the dead is brough to earth, and the DEAD has all risen, meaning the first resurrection has already happen if you say that the coming of Jesus happen on pentecost, and this is it according to 1 Thessalonians 4, then we all missed the first resurrection. can you see your error now. why preach, why try and convince anyone , why baptize if this is the last return of God at Pentecost?

if his coming on Pentecost is the Last return, then the Judgment has pass, as well as the white throne judgment. see how flawed that thinking is. but it also just stopped those who believe that a rapture is still eminent. well all the rapture people missed it by two thousand years.... late that's if the coming of JESUS/GOD happen on Pentecost. can you see your error now, guess not, so yes enought. I leave you with Revelation 22:11.

PICJAG.

PICJAG.
 

ScottA

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you suspected in ERROR as was your , and yes, Y O U R quotes. for Y O U R scriptures were not of God, but of you. now if you knew that it was JESUS who came on Pentecost then you know that the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit/Comforter, and that eliminate any three persons in any Godhead.
now, knowing that, (Jesus is the Holy Spirit), that means John 1:1 eliminates another person in your Godhead becauseof Acts 17:24 states, "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands". he, he, a single person that made all things? Jand that single person ... is, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". so Scott that eliminates any other person in the Godhead, so that means, this has already happen, ... the coming on Pentecost. listen,
1 Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (STOP IF YOU SAY THAT THIS IS THE COMING THAT TOOK PLACE AT PENTECOST CONTUINE TO READ).
1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

so all the dead is brough to earth, and the DEAD has all risen, meaning the first resurrection has already happen if you say that the coming of Jesus happen on pentecost, and this is it according to 1 Thessalonians 4, then we all missed the first resurrection. can you see your error now. why preach, why try and convince anyone , why baptize if this is the last return of God at Pentecost?

if his coming on Pentecost is the Last return, then the Judgment has pass, as well as the white throne judgment. see how flawed that thinking is. but it also just stopped those who believe that a rapture is still eminent. well all the rapture people missed it by two thousand years.... late that's if the coming of JESUS/GOD happen on Pentecost. can you see your error now, guess not, so yes enought. I leave you with Revelation 22:11.

PICJAG.

PICJAG.
That is not what I know to be true, so, no, the error you describe I also know to be error.

What I advocate is the same as Paul, that each leaves the world of tme and enters eternity, some unto eternal life and some damnation, but "each in his own order." Which means millions of raptures, but only two resurrections (the dead and the living, first the Jew then the greek), and only two advents, first the natural then the spiritual. This is what is written.
 

101G

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That is not what I know to be true, so, no, the error you describe I also know to be error.

What I advocate is the same as Paul, that each leaves the world of tme and enters eternity, some unto eternal life and some damnation, but "each in his own order." Which means millions of raptures, but only two resurrections (the dead and the living, first the Jew then the greek), and only two advents, first the natural then the spiritual. This is what is written.
GINOLJC, TO ALL
"Which means millions of raptures, but only two resurrections?" are you kidding me? but only two resurrection. ok, Scott I must leave this conversation if you believe that. good day.

PICJAG.
 

ScottA

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GINOLJC, TO ALL
"Which means millions of raptures, but only two resurrections?" are you kidding me? but only two resurrection. ok, Scott I must leave this conversation if you believe that. good day.

PICJAG.
Hahah...you forgot to say good day to Paul as well!