Time is up!! Jesus is returning and rapture (catching up) time is here!!

[Brakelite]

Because 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 talks about a "catching-up event" (Which sounds like a Rapture).

The so called catching up event cannot be separated from the resurrection which takes place at the same time: the time of Jesus' second coming.

KJV Daniel 12:1-3
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:27, 51-55
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

KJV John 6:39-40, 44, 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

KJV John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The so called catching up event

This is why I believed you did not regard 1 Thessalonians as inspired Scripture.
You call this a “so-called catching up event.”

1 Thessalonians 4
16 ”For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

It says that the saints here will be CAUGHT UP. This IS the same thing as saying “catching up.”
So if you don’t believe this event, then you are not believing this part of Scripture.

cannot be separated from the resurrection which takes place at the same time: the time of Jesus' second coming.

What verse says that they cannot be separate things?

To me: It is illogical to say that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 that describes saints GOING UP is the same thing as Revelation 19:11-21 where we see an implied description of the saints COMING DOWN (by their following Jesus into battle). They are not the two same events if you were to read them side by side. Please stop and read both of them now. I would recommend reading it first in the King James Bible, and then read it again in another translation that you like. Most importantly please pray for the understanding on these texts before reading them, as well.

KJV Daniel 12:1-3
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:27, 51-55
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

There are two different resurrections hinted at by Jesus (and which is later clarified better by Paul).
There is…

#1. A spiritual body type resurrection, and:​

#2. A physical body type resurrection.​

The spiritual resurrection is the “Caught Up” event in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Paul talks about how there is a spiritual body and a natural body in 1 Corinthians 15.

The physical resurrection (of receiving a new flesh and blood body) will take place in two phases (or at two points in time) through history. The first physical bodily resurrection takes place sometimes shortly before the “Millennium.” The second physical bodily resurrection takes place either at the Judgment, or when the “Final Eternal New Earth” reign starts.

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Matthew 22:30

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

This is the...

Spiritual Resurrection
This is a resurrection of the spiritual body, i.e. the ”Caught Up” event happening possibly either before the Tribulation or sometime in the 1st half of the Tribulation period.

Note: Paul says in:

1 Corinthians 15:44, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Paul reveals that this is the Rapture or taking up as a new mystery -
1 Corinthians 15:51-53.

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Matthew 22:31-32

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

This is the...

Physical Flesh and Blood Resurrection:
(Called: The 1st Resurrection, which is the physical flesh and blood body type resurrection; We learn of this resurrection here in Revelation 20:4 for the time of the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ):

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Revelation 2:4).

We also learn of about this resurrection taking place on the New Earth here: " But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Revelation 21:5).

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Conclusion:

So in the “Caught Up” event, Christians will receive a new spirit body and will be like angels and they will not be given in marriage. Believers who currently die go to Abraham's bosom until the ”Caught Up Together” event happens. When this “Caught Up” event happens, the dead in Christ will rise first, and then those who remain alive will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord in clouds. This can happen potentially sometime before the Tribulation or during the first half of the tribulation. If this event does not happen, then it is the “Middle Tribulation Gathering Up the Saints” event described in the Olivet discourse (Which takes place sometime after the Middle of the Tribulation).

After the 2nd coming of Christ (towards the end of the Tribulation), there will be the 1,000 year reign of Christ (a.k.a., the Millennium).
At the beginning of the 1,000 year reign, certain select few of God's people will be physically resurrected from the dead. I believe this to be Abraham to Moses (Who have the land promise), and those who were beheaded for Christ during the Tribulation.

After the 1,000 year reign of Christ, and after the Judgment, there will be a "New Earth" and the city of New Jerusalem will come down from out of Heaven and land on the "New Earth." At some point here, the people of God in the city of New Jerusalem (i.e. Those believers who were taken up in the Rapture and were faithful and not cast out by not having a wedding garment on) will receive their new physical bodies finally. The original plan of God (Where God dwells with man) will be restored.

So yes. I believe that one will be able to have a wife in either the Millennium or the New Earth. It depends on your current faithfulness now. If you live to see the time whereby you are beheaded for Christ during the time of the Antichrist, you will go through the Millennium. If you are faithful to Christ now, you will be a part of the ”Caught Up” event (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) and be in Heaven for a time until New Jerusalem lands on the "New Earth" after the Millennium (Whereby you will then have a new physical body again). Believers at this point can say that Jesus is truly their "Everlasting Father" literally at this point because they will have been resurrected after the likeness of His resurrection (or based upon His DNA).

Unfortunately, most believers are not going to make it. For Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and FEW be there that find it. Most today want to justify some kind of sin and still be saved type belief (on some level). So if a believer dies thinking they can turn God's grace into a safety net to sin, they will one day be taken up out of Sheol (from down in the heart of the Earth) in the ”Caught Up” event, but when they face the Lord for the wedding, the Lord will ask them where their wedding garment is at. They will be speechless, and the Lord will cast them into outer darkness. So my encouragement to all believers is stay faithful to the Lord and do not adhere to the popular view of "Sin & Salvation" as taught in the pulpits today.

 

[David in NJ]

This is why I believed you did not regard 1 Thessalonians as inspired Scripture.
You call this a so-called catching up event.

1 Thessalonians 4
16 ”For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

It says that the saints here will be CAUGHT UP. This IS the same thing as saying “catching up.”
So if you don’t believe this event, then you are not believing this part of Scripture.



What verse says that they cannot be separate things?

To me: It is illogical to say that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 that describes saints GOING UP is the same thing as Revelation 19:11-21 where we see an implied description of the saints COMING DOWN (by their following Jesus into battle). They are not the two same events if you were to read them side by side. Please stop and read both of them now.




There are two different resurrections hinted at by Jesus (and which is later clarified better by Paul).
There is a spiritual body type resurrection, and a physical body type resurrection.

The spiritual resurrection is the “Caught Up” event in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Paul talks about how there is a spiritual body and a natural body in 1 Corinthians 15.

The physical resurrection (of receiving a new flesh and blood body) will take place in two phases (or at two points in time) through history. The first physical bodily resurrection takes place sometimes shortly before the Millennium. The second physical bodily resurrection takes place either at the Judgment, or when the Final Eternal New Earth reign starts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 22:30

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

This is the...

Spiritual Resurrection
This is a resurrection of the spiritual body, i.e. the Pre-Trib Rapture;
Note: Paul says in:

1 Corinthians 15:44, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Paul reveals that this is the Rapture or taking up as a new mystery -
1 Corinthians 15:51-53.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 22:31-32

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

This is the...

Physical Flesh and Blood Resurrection:
(Called: The 1st Resurrection, which is the physical flesh and blood body type resurrection; We learn of this resurrection here in Revelation 20:4 for the time of the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ):

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Revelation 2:4).

We also learn of about this resurrection taking place on the New Earth here: " But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Revelation 21:5).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion:

So in the “Caught Up” event, Christians will receive a new spirit body and will be like angels and they will not be given in marriage. Believers who currently die go to Abraham's bosom until the Rapture happens. When the ”Caught Up” event happens, the dead in Christ will rise first, and then those who remain alive will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord in clouds. This can happen potentially sometime before the Tribulation or during the first half of the tribulation. If this event does not happen, then it is the Middle Tribulation gathering up the saints described in the Olivet disource (Which is around the Middle of the Tribulation).

After the 2nd coming of Christ (towards the end of the Tribulation), there will be the 1,000 year reign of Christ (a.k.a., the Millennium).
At the beginning of the 1,000 year reign, certain select few of God's people will be physically resurrected from the dead. I believe this to be Abraham to Moses (Who have the land promise), and those who were beheaded for Christ during the Tribulation.

After the 1,000 year reign of Christ, and after the Judgment, there will be a "New Earth" and the city of New Jerusalem will come down from out of Heaven and land on the "New Earth." At some point here, the people of God in the city of New Jerusalem (i.e. Those believers who were taken up in the Rapture and were faithful and not cast out by not having a wedding garment on) will receive their new physical bodies finally. The original plan of God (Where God dwells with man) will be restored.

So yes. I believe that one will be able to have a wife in either the Millennium or the New Earth. It depends on your current faithfulness now. If you live to see the time whereby you are beheaded for Christ during the time of the Antichrist, you will go through the Millennium. If you are faithful to Christ now, you will be a part of the ”Caught Up” event (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) and be in Heaven for a time until New Jerusalem lands on the "New Earth" after the Millennium (Whereby you will then have a new physical body again). Believers at this point can say that Jesus is truly their "Everlasting Father" literally at this point because they will have been resurrected after the likeness of His resurrection (or based upon His DNA).

Unfortunately, most believers are not going to make it. For Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and FEW be there that find it. Most today want to justify some kind of sin and still be saved type belief (on some level). So if a believer dies thinking they can turn God's grace into a safety net to sin, they will one day be taken up out of Sheol (from down in the heart of the Earth) in the ”Caught Up” event, but when they face the Lord for the wedding, the Lord will ask them where their wedding garment is at. They will be speechless, and the Lord will cast them into outer darkness. So my encouragement to all believers is stay faithful to the Lord and do not adhere to the popular view of "Sin & Salvation" as taught in the pulpits today.

@Brakelite said 100% TRUTH = "you cannot separate the Resurrection from the Rapture"

1 Thessalonians 4
16 ”For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Brakelite said 100% TRUTH = "you cannot separate the Resurrection from the Rapture"

1 Thessalonians 4
16 ”For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

Again, comparing 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and Revelation 19:11-21 side by side clearly shows that these are not the same event.
You got saints going up in one event, and saints coming down in the other event. So they are not the same event.

 

[David in NJ]

Again, comparing 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and Revelation 19:11-21 side by side clearly shows that these are not the same event.
You got saints going up in one event, and saints coming down in the other event. So they are not the same event.

Today, if you receive the Scripture in your heart, will give you greater understanding.

The Saints who are coming down with JESUS in Revelation ch19 are the SAME Saints in 1 Thessalonians.

1 Thess 3:12
"may the Lord cause you to increase and overflow with love for one another and for everyone else, just as our love for you overflows,
so that He may establish your hearts in blamelessness and holiness before our God and Father
at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints. Amen."

Continuing Truth of the SAME = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain
until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep/DIED.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise = Rev ch20 "the First Resurrection

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

and there is more.........

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Today, if you receive the Scripture in your heart, will give you greater understanding.

The Saints who are coming down with JESUS in Revelation ch19 are the SAME Saints in 1 Thessalonians.

1 Thess 3:12
"may the Lord cause you to increase and overflow with love for one another and for everyone else, just as our love for you overflows,
so that He may establish your hearts in blamelessness and holiness before our God and Father
at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints. Amen."

Continuing Truth of the SAME = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain
until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep/DIED.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise = Rev ch20 "the First Resurrection

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

and there is more.........

Again, the events do not match if you read them side by side. God's Word should connect and make sense. It seems like you are shoehorning in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 sometime shortly before Christ's 2nd Coming in Revelation 19. That is just adding something that is not there. If it was to connect, a verse or passage should connect the two passages, or they would sound like the same event. Not only that but there are other problems, as well. The saints are not appointed to Wrath. Paul talks about the "Caught Up" event as a mystery. So it is a mystery revealed by Paul. There is more, of course.

 

[David in NJ]

G

Again, the events do not match if you read them side by side. God's Word should connect and make sense. It seems like you are shoehorning in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 sometime shortly before Christ's 2nd Coming in Revelation 19. That is just adding something that is not there. If it was to connect, a verse or passage should connect the two passages, or they would sound like the same event. Not only that but there are other problems, as well. The saints are not appointed to Wrath. Paul talks about the "Caught Up" event as a mystery. So it is a mystery revealed by Paul. There is more, of course.

God's words in fact do connect but they do not always make sense to us at first.

All the passages on His Second Coming CONNECT.

Scripture are the words of God and God requires our earnest appreciation, study and submission to them.

Scripture does not contradict ITSELF = we do that of our own accord.

The only 'problem' is not fully understanding Revelation and the Scripture from where it came.

Revelation of JESUS CHRIST is the unfolding of that which was foretold by God, the Prophets, the LORD, Apostles and finally the LORD.

Instead of putting up an argument you must first allow the Scripture to have the Preeminence in your mind/heart.

 

[David in NJ]

Again, the events do not match if you read them side by side. God's Word should connect and make sense. It seems like you are shoehorning in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 sometime shortly before Christ's 2nd Coming in Revelation 19. That is just adding something that is not there. If it was to connect, a verse or passage should connect the two passages, or they would sound like the same event. Not only that but there are other problems, as well. The saints are not appointed to Wrath. Paul talks about the "Caught Up" event as a mystery. So it is a mystery revealed by Paul. There is more, of course.

You said: "It seems like you are shoehorning in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 sometime shortly before Christ's 2nd Coming in Revelation 19"

i NEVER said that or alluded to that = so erase that from your mind right away!

There is only One Second Coming of Christ and Only One First Resurrection followed by only One Rapture.

1 Thess 3:12
"may the Lord cause you to increase and overflow with love for one another and for everyone else, just as our love for you overflows,
so that He may establish your hearts in blamelessness and holiness before our God and Father
at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints. Amen."

SAME as 1 Thess 4:13-18 SAME as Revelation ch19 same as 2 Thess ch2 SAME as Revelation 19 SAME as Matt ch24 and MORE

 

[1stCenturyLady]

For some say this and think this , GOD wont put those HE loves to tribulations .
But they have believed a lie . All Whom GOD loveth he will PURGE that they bring forth MORE FRUIT .
WE are APPOINTED . APPOINTED UNTO tribulation .
JESUS never said BLESSED are you when you are NOT PERSECUTED and have the easy life .
HE said BLESSED are you WHEN you are persecuted for His sake and the gospels .
And they sure wont like this next reminder either
for not only is it given unto us to BELIEVE ON HIM , BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIS SAKE .
They used to pastors selling them the HEAP N STEAP WORDLY care gospel
and that all who GOD loves will be whisked away before they even stub a toe for his name sake .
I have seen some of their teachings .
They even say things like what paul and the apostels and early church went through , DONT APPLY TO US anymore .
WE wont have to face such things . THEY LIE , david , they LIE and my advice is let none heed them .
THEY already COOKING up the next big DECEPTOIN .
THEY HOLLERING all is well , you can take a chip or etc , IT Wont be the mark . NO way it can be the mark they say
AS THEY KEEP MAKING MONEY OFF THE CHURCHES and teach for HIRE and reward .
THEY say The six six six will be added in AFTER WE GONE . THEY are fleecing the flocks
and making big money off these popular books and false end time scenarios . THEY ARE DECIEVING THE FLOCKS .
my advice remains the same . WE BETTER BE PREPARED TO EVEN DIE FOR HIS SAKE . This world aint supposed to love us
And through great tribulation must we enter into the Kingdom . ALL OUT FURY and PERSECUTION is COMING .
And my advice is , LOVE NOT THY LIFE EVEN UNTO DEATH . FOLLOW THE LAMB and be prepared to lose everything
and COUNT the cost and be FAITHFUL EVEN TO DEATH .

Yes, He will. The tribulation is a time of TESTING, not WRATH. The Wrath comes later.

 

[amigo de christo]

G

God's words in fact do connect but they do not always make sense to us at first.

All the passages on His Second Coming CONNECT.

Scripture are the words of God and God requires our earnest appreciation, study and submission to them.

Scripture does not contradict ITSELF = we do that of our own accord.

The only 'problem' is not fully understanding Revelation and the Scripture from where it came.

Revelation of JESUS CHRIST is the unfolding of that which was foretold by God, the Prophets, the LORD, Apostles and finally the LORD.

Instead of putting up an argument you must first allow the Scripture to have the Preeminence in your mind/heart.

The problem is too many have pre eminence of what certain teachers have tried to say about said scriptures .
They see it through the lens they desire and not the simplicty of what it says . March on my friend .
If there had been no inventions of men about certain tribs , THE BIBLE would have been so simple to understand .
THERE is but ONE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST . A day when HE comes for the saints who have still remained
and to lay down the wrath of GOD against the beast and those who followed it . ITS real simple really .
The bible makes it very clear . It clearly makes it very plain . We can read revelation
and see its real clear the wrath of GOD comes against those who took the mark , served the beast
the wrath , tribulation of the beast , THAT COMES first against the Saints .
Its so clear in many other places too . Like in the gospels , in the letters to the thessalonians
and other places . Folks just would rather believe the easy path and dont want to believe we might actually
have to suffer and die for CHRIST . As for the lambs , we know the world is gonna do as it does
and that offences will come . We know JESUS warned often about how many saints would suffer and die
but to be faithful even unto death . WE see how often james , paul , peter themselves warned
about tribulations and that we would face many obstacles and persecutions in this life .
But that aint what many want to hear . Just give me my best life now is all they desire . And wisk me away
lest i even stub my toe for Christ . ITs sad but true . My desire is good for the people , SO i am gonna do all
to remind us all , Be prepared to lose all for Christ , even to die , be faithful unto death
and have all HOPE in the LORD . Fear not men , fear not to suffer , fear not even death .
THE LORD IS WITH THE LAMBS through it all . And prescious in his sight is the death of the lambs .
And we shall never taste of death anyway . JESUS already conquered death and HE who had the keys of death .
ALL we need to do is BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND and remember , THIS LIFE is but a vapor
but eternal life is FOREVER and ever . AND No matter what this world does to us
WE WIN FOR CHRIST HAS WON . Now hit the trenches . ITS all out war for the souls of men and CHRIST ALONE is our hope
and our salvation .

 

[Brakelite]

Revelation 19:11-21 where we see an implied description of the saints COMING DOWN

Everywhere else in scripture we are told that Jesus returns in the company of millions of angels. He comes in His own glory, and glory of the Father, and the glory of the angels. The suggestion that those following Him are redeemed saints denies the resurrection and the catching up, and is but am assumption inserted to fit the preconceived narrative of those deceived by the futurist malarkey of Hall Lindsay etc al.
If Protestants understood and appreciated the truth that the saints sleep in the dust of the earth until the resurrection, there would be much less confusion over the Christ's coming to take those saints home to His Father's house. Also, of people truly hungered after God's kingdom and His righteousness, and loved truth, then there would not be the confusion over a so called millennial kingdom on earth. Or a rapture separated from the resurrection. Nor a 7 year tribulation. Nor the idea that Israel, as a physical entity in the middle east is destined to fulfill prophecy above the purposes God has for the church. Oh, and there won't be the overwhelming deception regarding the character and nature of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Everywhere else in scripture we are told that Jesus returns in the company of millions of angels. He comes in His own glory, and glory of the Father, and the glory of the angels. The suggestion that those following Him are redeemed saints denies the resurrection and the catching up, and is but am assumption inserted to fit the preconceived narrative of those deceived by the futurist malarkey of Hall Lindsay etc al.
If Protestants understood and appreciated the truth that the saints sleep in the dust of the earth until the resurrection, there would be much less confusion over the Christ's coming to take those saints home to His Father's house. Also, of people truly hungered after God's kingdom and His righteousness, and loved truth, then there would not be the confusion over a so called millennial kingdom on earth. Or a rapture separated from the resurrection. Nor a 7 year tribulation. Nor the idea that Israel, as a physical entity in the middle east is destined to fulfill prophecy above the purposes God has for the church. Oh, and there won't be the overwhelming deception regarding the character and nature of God.

Jude 1:14

"Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,"​

2 Corinthians 10:6

"And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled."​

We also have the saints making themselves ready for "the Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Revelation 19:7-10) right before Jesus' "Second Coming" (Revelation 19:11-21). This is because...


The Marriage Supper in Revelation 19 is a Battle & Not a Literal Feast:

#1. Revelation 14 compares the reaping in the harvest of grapes with judgment. Grapes are food, and it is related to the destruction of wicked men. In Revelation 19, I believe this to be the case as well. Revelation 19 compares the marriage supper (food) with judgment (the battle of armageddon).

#2. Jesus offended the many disciples because they thought He was referring to teaching cannibalism about His own body. Jesus said unless you eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, you have no life in you. Obviously, Jesus was speaking metaphorically. But Jesus did not explain the metaphor to them and told them not to go away. Jesus said, “does this offend you?” The wine Jesus made. (that the wedding guests drank) represents his blood. For in the Lord’s supper, the wine and bread symbolize Christ’s blood and body. Does that mean we literally eat Christ’s flesh and blood? No. Peter was told to eat unclean animals, which was a picture of God accepting the Gentiles. So food relates to people. It is not an uncommon analogy made in God’s Word.

#3. The spiritual meaning behind Revelation 19 is: “God will get satisfaction by His putting an end to sin to bring a thousand-year reign of peace and righteousness.” For when somebody is hungry and they eat a good meal, they have a great feeling of satisfaction. This is the picture that God wants us to think about through the use of the metaphor employed in Revelation 19. Our uniting with Christ (marriage) is joined with the fact that the wicked will receive justice (marriage supper), with God being satisfied in bringing in a long age of righteousness.

#4. A similar saying, "eat the flesh of kings and captains," can be found in Ezekiel 39. However, a literal reading of Ezekiel 39 doesn’t make any sense. While birds are being called to the feast, the Son of Man is also called to this feast. It says that the Son of Man will eat flesh and drink blood. Horses are also on the menu, as well. This does not make sense unless it refers metaphorically to winning a battle. Note: Most miss this detail and only see the birds in Ezekiel 39 eating. But the Son of man is also called to eat and drink of His enemies, too.

#5. A literal reading of Revelation 19 involving the suppers means that there would actually be two literal suppers. A mysterious supper that we do not get to see in Revelation 19, and then a supper for birds eating the bad guys upon the Earth. This is strange, and Scripture does not explain these two unique feasts. But if it is just one metaphorical feast, it makes sense in light of what we see in the rest of Scripture (Ezekiel 39, John 6:59, etc.).

#6. In other parts of the Scripture, believers are related to birds like doves, eagles, etc.. So for saints to be referred to as fowl or birds in Revelation 19 fits the metaphorical view on the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19.

#7. David says in Psalms 23 that he prepares a table in the presence of his enemies. Meaning: His enemies will be consumed; For King David said in a previous psalm,

"I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed." (Psalms 18:37).

The idea here is similar to Ezekiel 39, with the Son of Man eating the flesh and drinking the blood of his enemies.

#8. Jesus answers his disciples by saying that there where the carcass is, there will be the eagles. If we are to assume that the eagles are not believers, then Jesus is giving more of a vague answer. But if the believers are eagles, as Scripture teaches (Isaiah 40:31), then those who were taken (while one is left) are taken to a place where the believer is clearly being identified. Are believers going to hang out and watch birds eat the dead kings? Surely not. It is a metaphor.

#9. Paul tells us that we are to be presented as chaste virgins to Christ. Obviously, all believers are not literally virgins. This is speaking in spiritual terms. So this is a metaphor. We are also called the bride in Scripture. A bride is a woman. Yet, obviously, not all believers are exclusively women. So the marriage of the bride to the groom here is metaphorical to a certain degree. It is not strictly literal. It is merely describing a joining to Christ. But we will not literally be a bride in the sense that we are women or that we will be female at some point. So "the marriage" is also a metaphor in part. So the idea is:

1. We are chaste virgins = Metaphor.
2. We are the bride of Christ = Metaphor.
3. Marriage supper = Literal?

In other words, if the other two things are metaphors, then the last one is also a metaphor, too. Yes, I believe there will be literal suppers with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Millennium (and possibly in Heaven), but the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19 is not one of them.

#10. Revelation is a highly symbolic book that is filled with many strange metaphors. So it is not odd or strange that we encounter metaphors here in Revelation 19. In fact, to try to apply wooden literalism that flies against the metaphors that the Bible helps define for us elsewhere (Ezekiel 39) is to ignore the proper art of being a good Berean.

 

[David in NJ]

Jude 1:14

"Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,"​

2 Corinthians 10:6

"And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled."​

We also have the saints making themselves ready for "the Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Revelation 19:7-10) right before Jesus' "Second Coming" (Revelation 19:11-21). This is because...


The Marriage Supper in Revelation 19 is a Battle & Not a Literal Feast:

#1. Revelation 14 compares the reaping in the harvest of grapes with judgment. Grapes are food, and it is related to the destruction of wicked men. In Revelation 19, I believe this to be the case as well. Revelation 19 compares the marriage supper (food) with judgment (the battle of armageddon).

#2. Jesus offended the many disciples because they thought He was referring to teaching cannibalism about His own body. Jesus said unless you eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, you have no life in you. Obviously, Jesus was speaking metaphorically. But Jesus did not explain the metaphor to them and told them not to go away. Jesus said, “does this offend you?” The wine Jesus made. (that the wedding guests drank) represents his blood. For in the Lord’s supper, the wine and bread symbolize Christ’s blood and body. Does that mean we literally eat Christ’s flesh and blood? No. Peter was told to eat unclean animals, which was a picture of God accepting the Gentiles. So food relates to people. It is not an uncommon analogy made in God’s Word.

#3. The spiritual meaning behind Revelation 19 is: “God will get satisfaction by His putting an end to sin to bring a thousand-year reign of peace and righteousness.” For when somebody is hungry and they eat a good meal, they have a great feeling of satisfaction. This is the picture that God wants us to think about through the use of the metaphor employed in Revelation 19. Our uniting with Christ (marriage) is joined with the fact that the wicked will receive justice (marriage supper), with God being satisfied in bringing in a long age of righteousness.

#4. A similar saying, "eat the flesh of kings and captains," can be found in Ezekiel 39. However, a literal reading of Ezekiel 39 doesn’t make any sense. While birds are being called to the feast, the Son of Man is also called to this feast. It says that the Son of Man will eat flesh and drink blood. Horses are also on the menu, as well. This does not make sense unless it refers metaphorically to winning a battle. Note: Most miss this detail and only see the birds in Ezekiel 39 eating. But the Son of man is also called to eat and drink of His enemies, too.

#5. A literal reading of Revelation 19 involving the suppers means that there would actually be two literal suppers. A mysterious supper that we do not get to see in Revelation 19, and then a supper for birds eating the bad guys upon the Earth. This is strange, and Scripture does not explain these two unique feasts. But if it is just one metaphorical feast, it makes sense in light of what we see in the rest of Scripture (Ezekiel 39, John 6:59, etc.).

#6. In other parts of the Scripture, believers are related to birds like doves, eagles, etc.. So for saints to be referred to as fowl or birds in Revelation 19 fits the metaphorical view on the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19.

#7. David says in Psalms 23 that he prepares a table in the presence of his enemies. Meaning: His enemies will be consumed; For King David said in a previous psalm,

"I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed." (Psalms 18:37).

The idea here is similar to Ezekiel 39, with the Son of Man eating the flesh and drinking the blood of his enemies.

#8. Jesus answers his disciples by saying that there where the carcass is, there will be the eagles. If we are to assume that the eagles are not believers, then Jesus is giving more of a vague answer. But if the believers are eagles, as Scripture teaches (Isaiah 40:31), then those who were taken (while one is left) are taken to a place where the believer is clearly being identified. Are believers going to hang out and watch birds eat the dead kings? Surely not. It is a metaphor.

#9. Paul tells us that we are to be presented as chaste virgins to Christ. Obviously, all believers are not literally virgins. This is speaking in spiritual terms. So this is a metaphor. We are also called the bride in Scripture. A bride is a woman. Yet, obviously, not all believers are exclusively women. So the marriage of the bride to the groom here is metaphorical to a certain degree. It is not strictly literal. It is merely describing a joining to Christ. But we will not literally be a bride in the sense that we are women or that we will be female at some point. So "the marriage" is also a metaphor in part. So the idea is:

1. We are chaste virgins = Metaphor.
2. We are the bride of Christ = Metaphor.
3. Marriage supper = Literal?

In other words, if the other two things are metaphors, then the last one is also a metaphor, too. Yes, I believe there will be literal suppers with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Millennium (and possibly in Heaven), but the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19 is not one of them.

#10. Revelation is a highly symbolic book that is filled with many strange metaphors. So it is not odd or strange that we encounter metaphors here in Revelation 19. In fact, to try to apply wooden literalism that flies against the metaphors that the Bible helps define for us elsewhere (Ezekiel 39) is to ignore the proper art of being a good Berean.

i just now read your 'core statement' and would say = ditto

 

[David in NJ]

Jude 1:14

"Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,"​

2 Corinthians 10:6

"And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled."​

We also have the saints making themselves ready for "the Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Revelation 19:7-10) right before Jesus' "Second Coming" (Revelation 19:11-21). This is because...


The Marriage Supper in Revelation 19 is a Battle & Not a Literal Feast:

#1. Revelation 14 compares the reaping in the harvest of grapes with judgment. Grapes are food, and it is related to the destruction of wicked men. In Revelation 19, I believe this to be the case as well. Revelation 19 compares the marriage supper (food) with judgment (the battle of armageddon).

#2. Jesus offended the many disciples because they thought He was referring to teaching cannibalism about His own body. Jesus said unless you eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, you have no life in you. Obviously, Jesus was speaking metaphorically. But Jesus did not explain the metaphor to them and told them not to go away. Jesus said, “does this offend you?” The wine Jesus made. (that the wedding guests drank) represents his blood. For in the Lord’s supper, the wine and bread symbolize Christ’s blood and body. Does that mean we literally eat Christ’s flesh and blood? No. Peter was told to eat unclean animals, which was a picture of God accepting the Gentiles. So food relates to people. It is not an uncommon analogy made in God’s Word.

#3. The spiritual meaning behind Revelation 19 is: “God will get satisfaction by His putting an end to sin to bring a thousand-year reign of peace and righteousness.” For when somebody is hungry and they eat a good meal, they have a great feeling of satisfaction. This is the picture that God wants us to think about through the use of the metaphor employed in Revelation 19. Our uniting with Christ (marriage) is joined with the fact that the wicked will receive justice (marriage supper), with God being satisfied in bringing in a long age of righteousness.

#4. A similar saying, "eat the flesh of kings and captains," can be found in Ezekiel 39. However, a literal reading of Ezekiel 39 doesn’t make any sense. While birds are being called to the feast, the Son of Man is also called to this feast. It says that the Son of Man will eat flesh and drink blood. Horses are also on the menu, as well. This does not make sense unless it refers metaphorically to winning a battle. Note: Most miss this detail and only see the birds in Ezekiel 39 eating. But the Son of man is also called to eat and drink of His enemies, too.

#5. A literal reading of Revelation 19 involving the suppers means that there would actually be two literal suppers. A mysterious supper that we do not get to see in Revelation 19, and then a supper for birds eating the bad guys upon the Earth. This is strange, and Scripture does not explain these two unique feasts. But if it is just one metaphorical feast, it makes sense in light of what we see in the rest of Scripture (Ezekiel 39, John 6:59, etc.).

#6. In other parts of the Scripture, believers are related to birds like doves, eagles, etc.. So for saints to be referred to as fowl or birds in Revelation 19 fits the metaphorical view on the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19.

#7. David says in Psalms 23 that he prepares a table in the presence of his enemies. Meaning: His enemies will be consumed; For King David said in a previous psalm,

"I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed." (Psalms 18:37).

The idea here is similar to Ezekiel 39, with the Son of Man eating the flesh and drinking the blood of his enemies.

#8. Jesus answers his disciples by saying that there where the carcass is, there will be the eagles. If we are to assume that the eagles are not believers, then Jesus is giving more of a vague answer. But if the believers are eagles, as Scripture teaches (Isaiah 40:31), then those who were taken (while one is left) are taken to a place where the believer is clearly being identified. Are believers going to hang out and watch birds eat the dead kings? Surely not. It is a metaphor.

#9. Paul tells us that we are to be presented as chaste virgins to Christ. Obviously, all believers are not literally virgins. This is speaking in spiritual terms. So this is a metaphor. We are also called the bride in Scripture. A bride is a woman. Yet, obviously, not all believers are exclusively women. So the marriage of the bride to the groom here is metaphorical to a certain degree. It is not strictly literal. It is merely describing a joining to Christ. But we will not literally be a bride in the sense that we are women or that we will be female at some point. So "the marriage" is also a metaphor in part. So the idea is:

1. We are chaste virgins = Metaphor.
2. We are the bride of Christ = Metaphor.
3. Marriage supper = Literal?

In other words, if the other two things are metaphors, then the last one is also a metaphor, too. Yes, I believe there will be literal suppers with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Millennium (and possibly in Heaven), but the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19 is not one of them.

#10. Revelation is a highly symbolic book that is filled with many strange metaphors. So it is not odd or strange that we encounter metaphors here in Revelation 19. In fact, to try to apply wooden literalism that flies against the metaphors that the Bible helps define for us elsewhere (Ezekiel 39) is to ignore the proper art of being a good Berean.

Do you understand Post #108 ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There really is nothing left to discuss. I said what I needed to say with the Word of God. I am extremely busy with other things I am doing for the Lord.

Good day to you all in the Lord.

May the Lord Jesus bless you all.

 

[David in NJ]

There really is nothing left to discuss. I said what I needed to say with the Word of God. I am extremely busy with other things I am doing for the Lord.

Good day to you all in the Lord.

May the Lord Jesus bless you all.

we call that a unfortunate hardship = "There really is nothing left to discuss"

HOLY SPIRIT TRUTH = 1 Thess 3:13 = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3 = Matt ch24 = Rev 20:4-6
that He may establish your hearts in blamelessness and holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints. Amen.

One Resurrection of the JUST at His Second Coming as foretold by the OT Prophets, the LORD and the Apostles

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled, just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.” - Revelation 10:7

Ephesians 1:10
"having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him."

Daniel 12:1-3
At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

 

[GISMYS_7]

2pETER 3:4-7
Be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[David in NJ]

2pETER 3:4-7
Be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

This Scripture is only for those who reject the LITERAL Second Coming of Christ as stated in Gospel Acts, 1 Thess & 2 Thess


"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth
and destroy with the brightness of His Coming.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you know your ABC's ???

A.) I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ,
who will judge the living and the dead at His Appearing and His kingdom:
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

B.)For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth,
and be turned aside to fables (pre-trib rapture).

C.) But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

 

[Brakelite]

@Bible Highlighter

KJV Matthew 13:41
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

KJV Matthew 13:49
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

KJV Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works

KJV Daniel 8:13-14
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Saints in some contexts, in this case with the second coming... Are angels. There are no human beings returning with Jesus... Impossible, as they haven't been resurrected yet.