Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[The Light]

That is incorrect.

Jeremiah 10:10
But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Zep 14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Revelation 15:1
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

What you have posted changes nothing. The fact is, there are just too many preachers on TV that think that the tribulation and the wrath of God are the same time frame. That is totally incorrect. I'm always wondering why most cannot accept the written word of God as it stands. There are always reasons why what is written cannot be correct according to most. If you want to understand Revelation and end times all you have to do is start putting things where God tells you they go.

So what is written?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

These verses should tell you that THE TRIBUALTION IS OVER AT THE 6TH SEAL.
We have proof that the tribulation is over at the sixth seal. All we need to do is read Revelation 7.

Rev 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

There is a great multitude in Rev 7 before the throne.

Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Where did this great multitude come from?

Matt 24

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So in summary The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Jesus returns and sends His angels to the gather the elect FROM HEAVEN AND EARTH. Then they will return to heaven for the marriage supper which happens during the wrath of God. Wrath begins after the 7th seal is opened with 1st trumpet. We can see that the wrath of God is getting ready to happen with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Its like God tells us the order of things and yet somehow we are blind to the most obvious conclusion, which is accept what is written.

 

[The Light]

Proved wrong by Revelation 15:1./QUOTE]

Oh, I guess you don't understand that the mystery of God is FINISHED at the 7th trumpet.

Rev 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

I guess you don't understand that the wrath of God is over when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. The Lord has returned and set up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet.
Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

And don't forget that the dead are judged and rewards are given at the 7th trumpet. Do you think this is a halftime celebration?
Rev 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The Sixth Seal is the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, when He will not be seen. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4, +
The glorious Return does not come until all the events up to Rev 19:10 have happened.

This is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, JUST BEFORE WRATH, when He sends His angels and remains in the clouds. But you obviously don't understand that.
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

You exhibit a total acceptance of the lie that the Jews are still God's chosen people. Contrary to all the Hew Testament teachings otherwise.

God will keep all His Promises. WE Christians are His Chosen people. 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 15:14-19

The Gentile Church is not the Chosen bride any more than Leah was the chosen bride of Jacob. Rachel was.

And Jacob worked 7 more years for Rachel even as the Chosen will be saved after the 70th week of Daniel.

 

[Keraz]

The Light said: I guess you don't understand that the wrath of God is over when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. The Lord has returned and set up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet. Quote

Jesus does not Return until all the 7 Bowls are over. Revelation 19:11
Revelation 11:15-19 is just a prophecy from voices in heaven, who are the souls of the martyrs; Rev 6:9-11
They say: ...the nations rose up, but Your wrath has come.... refers to the 7 Bowls, culminating in Armageddon. Revelation 16:12-18

 

[Davy]

The Light said: I guess you don't understand that the wrath of God is over when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. The Lord has returned and set up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet. Quote

Jesus does not Return until all the 7 Bowls are over. Revelation 19:11
Revelation 11:15-19 is just a prophecy from voices in heaven, who are the souls of the martyrs; Rev 6:9-11
They say: ...the nations rose up, but Your wrath has come.... refers to the 7 Bowls, culminating in Armageddon. Revelation 16:12-18

No, it is truly all over when the 7th angel (Trumpet) sounds, just like Revelation 10:7 reveals.

So you are in DENIAL of that part of Bible Scripture.

 

[The Light]

The Light said: I guess you don't understand that the wrath of God is over when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. The Lord has returned and set up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet. Quote

Jesus does not Return until all the 7 Bowls are over. Revelation 19:11
Revelation 11:15-19 is just a prophecy from voices in heaven, who are the souls of the martyrs; Rev 6:9-11
They say: ...the nations rose up, but Your wrath has come.... refers to the 7 Bowls, culminating in Armageddon. Revelation 16:12-18

I already showed you why we can be sure you are wrong. If you don't understand that the wrath of God is over when the 7th angel begins to sound, I'm not sure I can explain it better than the Bible. Also if you don't understand that when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, Armageddon has happened. I can't explain it any better than the Biblical facts. You don't need to take my word for it. Just read what it says, and accept what it says.

 

[dad]

So Judas and the Pharisees all will get saved etc. No, you are wrong. Israel is the Christian church. Yes, all Israel/church will be saved.

Did I say those people would be living at the end of the tribulation? Try to be honest.

 

[ewq1938]

Did I say those people would be living at the end of the tribulation?

So instead of all Israel shall be saved, it's some Israel shall be saved?

 

[Keraz]

No, it is truly all over when the 7th angel (Trumpet) sounds, just like Revelation 10:7 reveals.

So you are in DENIAL of that part of Bible Scripture.

So you simply ignore Revelation 11 to 19:10 ?

I already showed you why we can be sure you are wrong. If you don't understand that the wrath of God is over when the 7th angel begins to sound,

I already showed you that the wrath of God is not over until the 7 plagues, [Vials or Bowls] are fulfilled. Revelation 15:1
So the Bible proves you wrong. Will you change your beliefs? Are you capable of doing that? Probably not, to your eternal discredit.

 

[Davy]

So you simply ignore Revelation 11 to 19:10 ?

There is NO way I could be ignoring the Revelation 11 Chapter by stating that the 7th Trumpet happens with the day of Jesus' 2nd coming.

And you WELL KNOW those Revelation 11:14-19 verses are showing Christ having returned... at that point of the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

 

[The Light]

I already showed you that the wrath of God is not over until the 7 plagues, [Vials or Bowls] are fulfilled. Revelation 15:1

Yeah, and I already showed you why that is incorrect. Jesus has already returned, Armageddon has happened and Jesus has set up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet. What you claim as proof of the vials and bowls is merely a different view of what happens during Gods wrath in the trumpets.

So the Bible proves you wrong.

Only in your mind, because you don't understand that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet.

Will you change your beliefs? Are you capable of doing that?

If you can prove what I'm saying is error, I absolutely would change my beliefs. However, it is you that are in error and you don't understand the vials are just a different vision of what happens during God wrath as shown in the trumpets.

Probably not, to your eternal discredit.

Mmmm. Since you are in complete error, I am totally unconcerned.

 

[dad]

So what is written?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The seals seem to cover the whole span from beginning to end of the events of that time. Then, as the bible often tends to do, it goes back and covers things in more detail.

If that is the case, then yes, the sixth seal would be after the Tribulation.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Where did this great multitude come from?

Simple. They came OUT of great Tribulation. So they were killed in that last seven years sometime. Don't forget, that once we are finished with the seals we go back to flesh out some details of what happened. So it would not be 'after all events mentioned in the seals were over and done'! It would be more like, 'next, God showed me some things in more detail now'!

Matt 24

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That is after the Trib. So when we see this in the sixth seal that tells us that the seals must cover the span of the seven years.

So in summary The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Jesus returns and sends His angels to the gather the elect FROM HEAVEN AND EARTH. Then they will return to heaven for the marriage supper which happens during the wrath of God.

No. The supper is mentioned in the events where it goes back to flesh out what happened already in the seals!

Wrath begins after the 7th seal is opened with 1st trumpet. We can see that the wrath of God is getting ready to happen with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

No. we go back after the seals birds eye view, to see what happened in some details now. That is a bit like Gen 1 and Gen 2. Gen 2 goes back and looks at what was already finished!

Its like God tells us the order of things and yet somehow we are blind to the most obvious conclusion, which is accept what is written.

The way we have vision is to comprehend what He says, not cram it all into a little box.

 

[dad]

So Judas and the Pharisees all will get saved etc. No, you are wrong. Israel is the Christian church. Yes, all Israel/church will be saved.

The Jews in Israel who all get saved are at the end of the tribulation. The remnant. Not every Jew who ever lived! Didn't I already make that clear? What is your problem?

 

[dad]

So instead of all Israel shall be saved, it's some Israel shall be saved?

If you mean today, then yes, it is just some. If you mean after the wonderful judgments of God that bring Israel to finally repent (the remnant left alive at the time) then absolutely! ALL Israel shall be saved!

 

[Keraz]

Only in your mind, because you don't understand that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet.

Totally in contradiction of Revelation 15:1

it is you that are in error and you don't understand the vials are just a different vision of what happens during God wrath as shown in the trumpets.

This is wrong, as a simple reading of the reasons for and the effects of the 7 Trumpets and then the 7 Bowls, proves they are different events. The Trumpets first and then the Bowls, culminating with the 6th and 7th Bowls being the Battle of Armageddon and the Return of Jesus.

the sixth seal would be after the Tribulation.

You shuffle Revelation to believe this.
It is plain to see that the next prophesied event will be the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath. As shown in Isaiah 61:1-2, where Jesus stopped His quote just before ; and a day of the vengeance of God.

 

[dad]

You shuffle Revelation to believe this.

Not in any way is that remotely close to being true. One does not 'shuffle' Gen 1 to know that Gen 2 is a recap of what was already done. There is no way Jesus could have returned before the trumpets start! There is no way the various trumpets get blown after Jesus returns! Name any reason why the seals could not be a capsule view, that is unfolded later in detail?

It is plain to see that the next prophesied event will be the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath.

No idea what that even means. Obviously a lot has to happen before He returns. A whole lot.

As shown in Isaiah 61:1-2, where Jesus stopped His quote just before ; and a day of the vengeance of God.

Why mention the patently obvious as if it helps your case? Of course Jesus is coming back to earth to mete out vengeance to the wicked.

 

[The Light]

Totally in contradiction of Revelation 15:1

You seem incapable of understanding that when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, Christ has returned and set up His kingdom on earth. Armageddon is over by the 7th trumpet. If you are incapable of understanding these basics, I'm not sure what to tell you.

This is wrong, as a simple reading of the reasons for and the effects of the 7 Trumpets and then the 7 Bowls, proves they are different events. The Trumpets first and then the Bowls, culminating with the 6th and 7th Bowls being the Battle of Armageddon and the Return of Jesus.

Armageddon is over by the 7th trumpet when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. The trumpets and vial are two different views of the same timeframe. I could go through trumpet by trumpet and vial by vial and explain it to you, but I would just be wasting time as I am right now.

You shuffle Revelation to believe this.

No. You just don't understand what is written.

It is plain to see that the next prophesied event will be the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath. As shown in Isaiah 61:1-2, where Jesus stopped His quote just before ; and a day of the vengeance of God.

You go ahead and look for that while I make note of the beginning of the wars, famines and pestilence that are the beginning of sorrows. The instruction is we can escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man.

 

[The Light]

The seals seem to cover the whole span from beginning to end of the events of that time. Then, as the bible often tends to do, it goes back and covers things in more detail.

If that is the case, then yes, the sixth seal would be after the Tribulation.

Not many understand that. Genesis 7 is the perfect example of information, a conclusion followed by additional information and a similar conclusion followed by additional information and a similar conclusion. Revelation is written in a similar pattern but few grasp it.

That is after the Trib. So when we see this in the sixth seal that tells us that the seals must cover the span of the seven years.


No. The supper is mentioned in the events where it goes back to flesh out what happened already in the seals!


No. we go back after the seals birds eye view, to see what happened in some details now. That is a bit like Gen 1 and Gen 2. Gen 2 goes back and looks at what was already finished!


The way we have vision is to comprehend what He says, not cram it all into a little box.

I am having trouble following. I am tired.

 

[ewq1938]

Armageddon is over by the 7th trumpet.

Impossible since Armageddon is the last event of the second coming. After the armies are killed and the two beasts cast into the lake of fire, the thousand years begin.

 

[The Light]

Impossible since Armageddon is the last event of the second coming. After the armies are killed and the two beasts cast into the lake of fire, the thousand years begin.

Why would that be impossible? The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet.

 

[dad]

Not many understand that. Genesis 7 is the perfect example of information, a conclusion followed by additional information and a similar conclusion followed by additional information and a similar conclusion. Revelation is written in a similar pattern but few grasp it.




I am having trouble following. I am tired.

So the seals are opened, and that covers all the seven years. It tells us in capsule form what happens right on up till Jesus returns. If this is the case, then the vials and trumpets that are in later chapters are not to be looked at as if they follow the seals chronologically. Instead, they are details of what was already covered in the seals. So the first thing we see in chapter seven is that the angel with God's seal is on the scene and ready to seal people on earth. Since we are now being given the details of what happens and was covered quickly in the seals, we know that people get sealed by this angel early in the Tribulation.