Timing of the abomination of desolation

[covenantee]

I believe what Daniel and Jesus taught about it.
The armed forces of the north will first, abolish the daily sacrifice and second, place the abomination that causes desolation.
According to both Daniel and Jesus it will be a time of great distress, the likes of which have never been seen since there was a nation or shall ever be. Daniel writes at that time, his people will be delivered, all that are found written, and many who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,some to everlasting life and others to shall and contempt.

I simply don't believe a that have been written has risen from the dead yet. I believe that takes place on the day of the Lord. Not in 70 AD.

So you don't believe that Luke recorded what Jesus taught?

 

[Jay Ross]

You still didn't answer my simple question.

Why are you ignoring Luke 21:20?

I have answered your question. It is that you want me to answer it in agreement with your particular interpretation of this verse.

You see Luke 21:20 as a near future event to when Christ gave this prophecy, whereas I see this verse as pointing to a still distant future event.

Actually what has and still is happening to Israel in the third and the fourth age of Israel was prophesied in Ex 20:4-6.

But this conversation is now over, as you cannot get your laughing matter around what is being shown to you, by me, from the scriptures.

Good day sir.

 

[covenantee]

Yes, checking my df bible, I see:

Luke 21:20
And when not ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then not ye will know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have answered your question. It is that you want me to answer it in agreement with your particular interpretation of this verse.

You see Luke 21:20 as a near future event to when Christ gave this prophecy, whereas I see this verse as pointing to a still distant future event.

Actually what has and still is happening to Israel in the third and the fourth age of Israel was prophesied in Ex 20:4-6.

But this conversation is now over, as you cannot get your laughing matter around what is being shown to you, by me, from the scriptures.

Good day sir.

So, where did Jesus answer the question the disciples asked about when the temple buildings would be destroyed if not in Luke 21:20-24?

 

[ewq1938]

So, you think He told them that the temple buildings would be destroyed but had no interest in giving them any details about it even after they asked about it? Really? That's complete nonsense.

It's not because he did not answer it. No one has produced a verse where Christ says anything about the Roman's destroying in in their lifetimes.

He answered what he knew needed to be answered, and that was about the end of the world and his coming which is all he spoke about.

It is true and you've made that clear repeatedly, but just keep denying it if you want. In one case you correctly identify text as being symbolic (the sword coming out of Christ's mouth) but then you inexplicably interpret the symbolic sword as somehow being literally used to physically kill people.

And you in one case you correctly identify text as being symbolic (the sword coming out of Christ's mouth) but then you inexplicably interpret the symbolic sword as somehow being unable to literally be used to physically kill people despite the text presenting exactly that.

I've asked you to explain exactly how that works (a SYMBOLIC sword being used to LITERALLY kill people) and you are apparently not willing to do so.

God can use a figurative sword to cause physical damage and death as Revelation clearly shows. God can just speak words and physical damage can be done. Guess what, God can neither speak or have any form of sword and could still physically kill people. You act like God doesn't have the unlimited powers of God. You have taken the position that God could not possibly be able to use a symbolic sword and cause physical death and damage. That's a bad position to take.

 

[ewq1938]

So, where did Jesus answer the question the disciples asked about when the temple buildings would be destroyed if not in Luke 21:20-24?

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

You are ignoring what that verse says. Did all things written get fulfilled in 70 AD? Of course not. Even you know the second coming and gathering of the saints didn't happen.

Christ plainly said one generation would see "all these things" and he said that right after speaking of the second coming. You and others cut the end part of the Olivet Discourse away from the first part so that two generations see the events. The first generation of 70 AD sees most of them and a FAR FAR away generation sees the last two but that's not what Christ said would happen. People literally re-write the Olivet Discourse to suit their own made up doctrines. At least the futurists don't have to alter the Olivet Discourse at all.

 

[covenantee]

At least the futurists don't have to alter the Olivet Discourse at all.

Changing "ye" to "not ye" and "you" to "not you" in the entire Olivet discourse does not alter the Olivet discourse at all.

Right.

Classic dfland "logic".

 

[shilohsfoal]

So you don't believe that Luke recorded what Jesus taught?

Luke recorded what someone other than Christ taught him. No one really knows who Luke was. We do know he was not an apostle. Some say he was a friend of Paul. Others say he used much of mark.
As concerning the abomination that causes desolation I like to read the prophey itself written by Daniel. Jesus helped me understand that it takes place on resurection day though by the words he had quoted from Daniel and recorded by the apostle Mathew.
Those words really helped me understand the timing.

 

[covenantee]

Luke recorded what someone other than Christ taught him. No one really knows who Luke was. We do know he was not an apostle. Some say he was a friend of Paul. Others say he used much of mark.
As concerning the abomination that causes desolation I like to read the prophey itself written by Daniel. Jesus helped me understand that it takes place on resurection day though by the words he had quoted from Daniel and recorded by the apostle Mathew.
Those words really helped me understand the timing.

Do you believe that Luke is, or is not, inspired Scripture?

I would not question your experience. However, it must be tested against the inspired Word, unless you believe that Luke is not inspired.

All Scripture is inspired (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and inspired Scripture harmonizes, therefore Daniel, Matthew, and Luke harmonize.

Unless you believe that Luke is not inspired.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Do you believe that Luke is, or is not, inspired Scripture?

I would not question your experience. However, it must be tested against the inspired Word, unless you believe that Luke is not inspired.

All Scripture is inspired (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and inspired Scripture harmonizes, therefore Daniel, Matthew, and Luke harmonize.

Unless you believe that Luke is not inspired.

I believe someone who was with Jesus that day had told whoever wrote Luke about the events and what was said. But what Jesus said was incomplete.
Luke only had a few words Jesus had quoted from Daniel. Not enough that I would have noticed the quote. Mathew had the full quote so I noticed the quote and that told me when the abomination would be placed.
As for Luke being inspired. I would say the person trying to remember what Jesus said on that day was inspired but as for the author, it doesn't matter if he were inspired or not. He was not able to record an event he never saw.
In the end it comes down to Mathew having the entire quote from Daniel and Luke only had about three words. I know they are talking about the same thing and harmonizes but Luke was incomplete.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Do you believe that Luke is, or is not, inspired Scripture?

I would not question your experience. However, it must be tested against the inspired Word, unless you believe that Luke is not inspired.

All Scripture is inspired (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and inspired Scripture harmonizes, therefore Daniel, Matthew, and Luke harmonize.

Unless you believe that Luke is not inspired.

PS, I'm not sure what Paul ment by scripture. Not all writings are inspired. The Quran, hadith, mccabees are all not inspired scripture. Or at least not Inspired by God.

 

[covenantee]

In the end it comes down to Mathew having the entire quote from Daniel and Luke only had about three words. I know they are talking about the same thing and harmonizes but Luke was incomplete.

Matthew is also incomplete, because he does not actually identify the abomination of desolation. Neither does Daniel, so Daniel is also incomplete.

Luke is the only one who does identify the abomination of desolation.

The Roman armies.

 

[covenantee]

PS, I'm not sure what Paul ment by scripture. Not all writings are inspired. The Quran, hadith, mccabees are all not inspired scripture. Or at least not Inspired by God.

So you think Luke is no different from Quran, hadith, mccabees?

If so, what is Luke doing in the Christian Bible?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Matthew is also incomplete, because he does not actually identify the abomination of desolation.

Luke is the only one who does.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

Sure looks like Jesus identifies the abomination of desolation in Mathew account by what Jesus said. But Mathew has Jesus quote of Daniel where Luke doesn't. Like I previously said. It was by that quote that I am able to understand when the abomination is placed. Luke only mentions part of that quote.

 

[shilohsfoal]

So you think Luke is no different from Quran, hadith, mccabees?

If so, what is Luke doing in the Christian Bible?

That's not what I said. I said I don't know what Paul meant by scripture. The Bible did not exist when Paul wrote to Timothy. There were just separate texts by different people.
Why is Maccabees in some bibles?
It's obviously not of God.

As for Luke, I've already answered your question.
Mathew is a more complete account of what Jesus said about the abomination that causes desolation.

 

[covenantee]

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

Sure looks like Jesus identifies the abomination of desolation in Mathew account by what Jesus said. But Mathew has Jesus quote of Daniel where Luke doesn't. Like I previously said. It was by that quote that I am able to understand when the abomination is placed. Luke only mentions part of that quote.

The fact remains. Neither Matthew nor Daniel specifically identify the abomination of desolation.

Only Luke does.

The Roman armies.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The fact remains. Neither Matthew nor Daniel specifically identify the abomination of desolation.

Only Luke does.

The Roman armies.

No, it's not the Romans. It's actually the Americans if you've been paying any attention to Daniel.
It appears you havnt been paying any attention at all, unfortunately.

What you want to believe is up to you though.

 

[covenantee]

That's not what I said. I said I don't know what Paul meant by scripture. The Bible did not exist when Paul wrote to Timothy. There were just separate texts by different people.
Why is Maccabees in some bibles?
It's obviously not of God.

As for Luke, I've already answered your question.
Mathew is a more complete account of what Jesus said about the abomination that causes desolation.

Maccabees is in the Apocrypha. Protestants do not accept the Apocrypha as inspired.

 

[covenantee]

No, it's not the Romans. It's actually the Americans if you've been paying any attention to Daniel.
It appears you havnt been paying any attention at all, unfortunately.

What you want to believe is up to you though.

It's the Roman armies, unless you insist on rejecting Luke.

Then it's anything you want it to be.

 

[shilohsfoal]

It's the Roman armies, unless you insist on rejecting Luke.

Then it's anything you want it to be.

So you insist that everyone who names are writen were resurrected in 70 AD as Daniel wrote?